Alpi Pioneer & Jabiru engines

[GDL]

I have several questions for the group. I have a chance to buy a Alpi Pioneer 200S or 300S (there is one of each). They are available locally (near my home in Canada). I have flown the P200 but with a Rotax 912 80 hp. The 2 for sale use the Jab 2200 & 3300 respectively. I have no flying experience with either engine, although I have heard some sad tales about 2200 issues when the engine is stressed (a flying school I was at had serious problems with their 2200s and finally got rid of them).

 

What is your experience with either engine? Any flown either plane with the Jabiru? How does the Jab in a Pioneer compare to the 912?

 

 

[LimaMike08]

G'day GDL,

 

If you look through this forum you will find plenty of discussion on the Jabiru motor vs. Rotax 912 et al. Generally the camp seems to be split between those for and those against the Jabiru motor. In my limited experience having trained in a Jabiru 2200 and owning a trike with Rotax 912 I have had positive experiences with both. I have no experience with the Alpi Pioneer so can't comment there.

 

There is plenty of experience on this forum so i am sure someone will be able to advise.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

My opinion only of course, but I feel you would be much better off long-term with a 912 100 hp in the Alpi, which is what most of them run anyway . Cheers...Maj....

 

 

[GDL]

HI Bluearsefly and Maj. I have many hours in 912 powered ultralights and am very comfortable with the engine and its reliability (my S6S has 912UL). I hear such differing opinions on the Jabiru and it can be rather confusing. And there seems to be a greater appreciation of the 3300 (less stressed perhaps?) compared to the reliability of the 2200. The Pioneer I flew was comfortable and smooth and a beautiful flyer, But I need something I can trust and which gives me satisfaction for some time. Any opinions on fuel consumption of the 2200 and 3300 versus the 912 (I prefer the real world versus what the ads tell us)?

 

 

[facthunter]

Both series of engines seem to give a fuel consumption relating to the HP used. ( I don't think there is a significant difference in specific fuel consumption). Jab engines prefer simple wooden props so your range of suitable propellers is more limited than with a Rotax. Direct drive means a smaller dia prop and a bit more ground clearance. Jabiru engines run on avgas. Most of the retractible Alpi's that I have flown in have had Jaburu 6 cyl engines fitted, and go pretty quickly, but so does a C/S Rotax 100 HP, for a little less fuel consumption with the fancy prop, ( and extra cost).

 

The Jury's still out. IF you can run a Jab reliably and that will be mainly mixture and cowling issues, the 6 sounds and feels great. Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

One additional new engine that I am watching ATM, is the Italian Metal Work 4 cyl fuel injected with gearbox now being marketed by Lightwing in Ballina. All the numbers are good on this tidy little unit, as is the weight and price. You can access the website via the Lightwing website.

 

I am anxious to see the unit perform in a LW Speed for example.

 

We need more good engines to choose from, for more choice, and no doubt the good ones will last the distance..................................................................................................Maj...

 

 

[GDL]

Thanks FactFinder. The Pioneer 300 in particular is such a good price, I might be tempted to get it anyway. It is the reliability that I am mostly concerned about although I have been told that the 3300 is more reliable than the 2200. Is that true in general? And you are talking about cowl and mixture issues. What have these consisted of?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

GDL, I too have many hours behind the 912, and for me thats' my engine of choice as I love it's reliability.

 

Remember although the Alpi may be cheap and tempting at the moment, if you have to go through an engine change later, it won't be, with all that is involved there (new mount, electrical wiring, propellor, guages etc). maybe they are well priced for that reason ?.

 

As an example I have a friend who just purchased a (cheap) Pulsar XP with a 2200 in it. He's considering a 912 but it's going to cost to do the switchover.

 

Choose well my friend, IMOP one engine is for flyers, and the other for tinkerers...........................................Maj...

 

 

[GDL]

Hi Maj. I hear what you are saying. I have never been let down by my 912, despite some hard work. That is why I am trying to make some sense of the Jabiru. So many comments, either positive or negative, and little in between, about the Jabiru.

 

 

[facthunter]

GDL. Just make sure the air gets ducted over the engine evenly. I believe the cylinders should be baffled, and would like cowl flap fitted for manual control of temps on descents, and don't run it too lean. Running on avgas must be a plus in Canada. Jab engines should not sit idle for long periods without being inhibited. ( as is with Lyc's and Continentals )

 

 

[GDL]

FactFinder, thanks for the info. They sound more like Lycs and Conts all the time (which of course they resemble). Is the baffling similar to what is done to the Sonex and its Aerovee engine? It also sounds like CHT and EGT temps are critical. Or more one than the other? Are the temps critical like a Rotax 582? Our outside temps are considerably lower than Australia. Does that have an impact that anyone ahs commented on?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

GDL, I do think those Alpis are a fine looking aircraft, and being Italian they should be nicely built................Maj...

 

 

[Guest Pioneer200]

Hi, Pioneer 200/300 are very nice aircraft to fly, I have about 25hrs in the 200 PIC and about 6 in the 300 as PAX.

 

Maj, they are nicely built but the earlier 200's were a bit weak in the undercarriage, we have had a couple of issues with ours in our group. I believe this has been beefed up now and all good, .We have the Jab 2200 in ours and it seems to suit the 200 well, get 100 knots cruise at about 2750 rpm

 

 

[facthunter]

GDL, I'm not familiar with the aerovee baffles. The set-up on the Cont.O-200 betweeen the cylinders is the way I like it. Simple to install and held in by a bit of tie-wire. Nev