What's the best way to ditch a microlight?

[Kev]

This comes under the food for thought category.

 

With the advent of the new flying over water regulations, I foresee some of our pilots dashing down to BCF to purchase their new PFDs. Before rushing in too quickly, they may wish to consider what their actions might be if the worst should occur, and also add the 'should we put down on water...' part to their passenger brief.

 

I have previously read one or two accounts of trikes ditching, and make no mistake, it is not a landing, it is a crash. There appear to be two schools of thought on the best time to disembark. They are (a) stay with the trike until it comes to a complete halt, then exit, and (b) exit at the last possible moment before hitting the water.

 

Does anybody have any strong opinions, or better still, experience that they might share? Actually, experience would be better, because if they are able to relate it, that means that they have survived the event, and whatever they did works...

 

Safe Flying

 

Kev

 

 

[alf jessup]

Well Kev,

 

Me personally, i'd disconnect my headset and helmet, seatbelt ect and bail before she entered the water (accelerated stall).

 

From what I have heard is if you stay with it there is a fair chance of the control bar pinning you in the seat when the water equalizes over the top and bottom surfaces of the wing. (if it doesn't collapse around you in the landing)

 

Personally i would be flying high enough to glide clear of the water or track within gliding distance of land even if it adds time to my flight.

 

With a pax, explain to him/her what you intend to do and what side i'm bailing out of and direct them to do the same when i have vacated my seat.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

very pertinent bringing this up Kev :thumb_up: Its been a hot topic of discussions amongst trikers for 20 years to my knowledge and, until or unless, somebody actually does some experiments it will probably remain so as, happily, there isn't a lot of case history to base the decision on.

 

There are definately a number of examples of pilots ditching and surviving (although in one case they subsequently drowned after being seen at the surface). I'm not aware of any pilots who have jumped and survived.

 

No offence to you Alf (or anyone else sharing your opinion) but choosing to ditch is a no-brainer for me. Throw the mapboard and any other clutter out, have a knife handy to cut away the headset/ptt leads (after your mayday call) so there's less risk of them getting tangled and fly the plane as slowly as possible onto the water.

 

As for PFD, I'd strongly suggest the self-inflating type but NOT the automatic sort which trigger as soon as they are immersed. Inflating whilst you were still strapped in the trike wouldn't help you getting out.

 

The most important thing is to plan what you would do before it happens or, better still, follow Alf's recommendation & avoid putting yourself where you couldn't glide to land.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[skeptic36]

better still, follow Alf's recommendation & avoid putting yourself where you couldn't glide to land.

:thumb_up::thumb_up::thumb_up:

Regards Bill

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

The YouTube link below shows someone who accidentally dipped his trike wheels in the water. Although he apparently escaped unhurt, take a look at the trike after the accident and consider that he was very lucky. Filmed by another trike flying well above.

 

Another candidate for the Darwin awards!

 

 

Not something you would want to do if you had any other choice.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

thats pretty funny

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

The YouTube link below shows someone in the US who accidentally dipped his trike wheels in the water.

I believe the clip is from Aus rather than the US - definately not the way I would try to ditch if I had to !

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Personally I would prefer the extra barrier of protection (the aircraft) to help reduce the impact that will happen when you do hit the water rather than being completely exposed to face the full brunt of the energy from the crash

I've never heard anyone seriously suggest jumping out of, rather than ditching, a fixed wing aircraft but we are talking specifically about trikes. Most of them don't have tall screens & the front strut isn't going to provide a lot of protection from the water (its actually more of a hazard if you headbutt it). At best, the wing might float long enough for you to get out but you are still a relatively long way under water and, as Alf pointed out, because the trike pivots relative to the wing you could be pinned into the seat by the control bar. This happened to a guy in Sweden but only after the wing started sinking. IIRC the wing did float initially but he struggled to get out due to his intercom lead being plugged in or tangled.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[alf jessup]

I've never heard anyone seriously suggest jumping out of, rather than ditching, a fixed wing aircraft but we are talking specifically about trikes. Most of them don't have tall screens & the front strut isn't going to provide a lot of protection from the water (its actually more of a hazard if you headbutt it). At best, the wing might float long enough for you to get out but you are still a relatively long way under water and, as Alf pointed out, because the trike pivots relative to the wing you could be pinned into the seat by the control bar. This happened to a guy in Sweden but only after the wing started sinking. IIRC the wing did float initially but he struggled to get out due to his intercom lead being plugged in or tangled.Cheers

 

John

John,

 

I think if i can recall that one of the south Africans (Honeybone or something like that, or his mate) doing a around the world trip drowned in a lake in China when he ditched, i believe it was because he got pinned by the control bar (or knocked out by it).

 

Apparently don't quote me on this but the weather was attrocious at the time and they continued on in rain, if i remember right he lost his goggles and was having difficulty seeing and went in a lake.

 

Everyone will have there own opinon of what they would do, me i would bail as it couldnt be much worse than jumping off a rock face 30 ft above the water like when i was younger or coming off water skis at 60 mph. (i'm also betting the control bar would give you a decent whack when you entered the water)

 

My view is that you may have some forward motion also with the vertical motion and you should end up away from the trike which to me would be better than getting tangled in the mess in the water.

 

I don't ever plan to be in that situation but if i was i have my plan set in what actions I would take.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

John,I think if i can recall that one of the south Africans (Honeybone or something like that, or his mate) doing a around the world trip drowned in a lake in China when he ditched, i believe it was because he got pinned by the control bar (or knocked out by it).

 

Apparently don't quote me on this but the weather was attrocious at the time and they continued on in rain, if i remember right he lost his goggles and was having difficulty seeing and went in a lake.

 

Everyone will have there own opinon of what they would do, me i would bail as it couldnt be much worse than jumping off a rock face 30 ft above the water like when i was younger or coming off water skis at 60 mph. (i'm also betting the control bar would give you a decent whack when you entered the water)

 

My view is that you may have some forward motion also with the vertical motion and you should end up away from the trike which to me would be better than getting tangled in the mess in the water.

 

I don't ever plan to be in that situation but if i was i have my plan set in what actions I would take.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

There may well be instances of pilots jumping & surviving. If so, I'd love to hear them but Alan Honeyborne's fatal doesn't really help your case. I believe the cause was getting disorientated after losing his goggles whilst they were flying in rain & cloud at 10000'. He was then reported as saying that he'd "lost the wing" so this sorry accident is rather more relevant to the thread about flying in IMC. He apparently tried to direct the trike towards a river, jumped and died.

 

Its not that I particularly fancy my chances of surviving a ditching but I can't imagine being able to control a gliding trike close enough to the water to be able to survive the fall whilst actually jumping out. It's hard enough to fly the trike whilst the passenger jumps out. Lets hope neither of us have to ever find out who is right

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[alf jessup]

Its not that I particularly fancy my chances of surviving a ditching but I can't imagine being able to control a gliding trike close enough to the water to be able to survive the fall whilst actually jumping out. It's hard enough to fly the trike whilst the passenger jumps out. Lets hope neither of us have to ever find out who is right Cheers

 

John

John,

 

lol I aint waiting for the pax to get out first, they can follow my vapor trail if they like.

 

And your correct, I have no plan to try my theory out.:thumb_up:

 

And as for losing a wing that aint good and your chances are slim to zero

 

Alf

 

 

[skeptic36]

Here is a reality check from a bloke who was lucky:

 

Greetings All, Just got home from a refreshing holiday back home in Wales and jumped on to see what has been going on and came across this water thing (again). In case you are reading here and never read the original thread on the water landing ideas/arguments, I will refer you to that listing and not rewrite all that I originally wrote as my feelings/suggestions on the matter. I will reiterate that what I wrote was what I feel about the matter, having experienced a water landing in a land trike, and would suggest to someone to think about what I said I would do in future, should the need arise to once again enter the water in a land configured trike. I am not demanding that you jump, I stayed with the trike on my one and only experience of this type of incident, I would NEVER stay with the trike in a future episode, not that I ever expect there to be a repeat of such a thing. Monty sometimes refers to those who fly over open water with no chance of a glide to land, as brave soles and refers to himself as a coward. First off Monty, you sir, are no coward, you are a very smart pilot and one who keeps uppermost in his mind, all those family and friends who he would leave behind on this earth. As for those who do fly low over open water, I would suggest that they are bloody fools, and ignorant A$$holes if they are doing this with a poor unknowing passenger on board. No, change that to cruel, despicable, ignorant A$$holes... there, that's better. I can tell you from first hand experience that all the practice, forethought, self assuredness and expertise goes out the window, the moment the trike hits the water. You go from flying - to hearing bubbles while soaking wet in the blink of an eye, accompanied by shock and no awe, if you are still concious that is. And, for those first few seconds or so, you have absolutely no idea of which way is up, so forget about your ideas of getting out the back of the trike or the side or what ever, because you will not know in which direction you are pushing yourself, for safety sake. As for a facility to practice crashes, like helicopter traing etc. don't even waste your thoughts on this, because a helicopter and a metal fixed wing do not have a wet sheet wrapped with cables around them to egress their aircraft. No easy task without this added problem, but with this added to the fray, almost an impossibility to get out of. Yes it might sound helpful to be dropped into a pool from a cable with a wing overhead, if you are expecting to go in under a parachute, but if you are just thinking of practice for a fly in scenario, don't even bother. Why, you may be asking, well the why is because you have absolutely no idea what will happen to the wing as the trike enters the water so you can't practice for that. Forget about your airbags on the nose wheel or in the side wheels or under the pod or trike keel, they would probably get ripped off in a water landing anyway and they would add more confusion with, in my opinion, no additional help to keep afloat. When you hit, anything could happen to the trike in that last millisecond which would change the way the trike and wing are going to react with each other in the water as the inertia dissipates. And those air mattresses in the wings, those were mainly to help keep your trike afloat for a possibly recovery when you got rescued, but they would not help you really, in a crash into water. I thought, just as many, if not most of you, that I would land in the water, the trike would come to a sudden stop and the whole thing would sink nicely downwards, all set up as if on land and dropping into quick sand. It just doesn't happen that way unless you are reading it in a fairey tale book. In reality, I found that a straight in level flared flight resulted in my Port rear wheel hitting a fraction of a second before anything else and the last thing I recall was trying to get that wheel and trike back level and last little bit of bar out movement and then darkness and bubbles, panic and fear. The shock of it all will probably have you exhale any air you thought you could hold in your lungs, IF the bar has not slammed back into your chest from the nose of the wing going in and the trike unit continuing forward. I was lucky, the bar never did slam into my chest and from what I thought would be a straight in level sinking, turned out to be 90 degree right hand turned postion in yaw of the trike and wing from entry point with a 90 degree port side roll of the trike and wing when it all stopped. How it ended in that position I'll never know, all I DO know is that I'm so thankful it did end up that way. The port wing was folded and bent and snapped backwards and under the trike with the cables all over the place, but luckily the starboard wing remained intact and was straight out and pointing skywards as I sank, so nothing on that side wrapped around me, and that was the area to escape into. At first, when forward motion stopped, in a panic, I tried to exit my seat and found I was trapped, but then, I recall a calm came over me, and I suddenly remembered that my seat belt was still clicked tight. I released that and distincly remember moving the straps well away from me to each side, then sliding out and starting up to the surface when the next thing tugged and held me, my headset radio cable was still connected. I unplugged that and feeling for any more wing cables as I went, I got to the surface. Again, I was lucky, another person may have continued to panic and never realized that it was simply the seat belt that prevented them from getting out or may have still been held by the headset cable to the intercom and may have drowned right there. Or they may have gotten out of the seat belt but a wing cable may have become wrapped around them or onto their helmet and with no air in the lungs, would again panic and not be able to free themselves. The water conditions play yet another part that no one seems to have thought about here. Again I was lucky, I went down in calm water with just a gentle direction flow of water and no passenger to worry about and get entangled with. Image what it might be like in an ocean with all that open water and current turmoil. Ever jumped into an ocean off a boat? You'd be shocked at how that water throws you about (I don't mean dead calm flat water here, nor a rough seas) even in standard day conditions with just a little wind. Now image being wrapped in a trike and wing with bent or snapped wing tubes and cables all around you. Lets suppose the trike went in dead straight, the main wheels hit, then a millisecond later the nose wheel hits, pulling the nose pod down into the water with all that drag and then the nose of the wing impacts the water. Well... you'd better have jam in your pockets because you are about to become TOAST! When the wing's nose goes in there is still forward interia from the rest of the trike unit (engine and fuel tank etc.) that will be thrown right into the under surface of the wing and everything will wrap around the trike like a huge wet sheet complete with cables and extremely strong but now bent or snapped and jagged tubes from the wing. Trust me, you are not going to be able to bend these tubes away from you at all. It was next to impossible on land when we came to try and unfold the bent wing of my trike, and that was with several people helping and no water resistance and the grip of dry land under my feet and resistance of the trike on the dry land against our tugging, and it was still almost impossible to move a wing tube. Those wing tubes are amazingly strong when bent or snapped to a shape. I hope I have given you more food for thought regarding what happens when you go into water in a land trike. Yes it is great to think about airbags and floatation devices and wing limiters and practice sessions into real water, but that is not what is going to happen to you. Just put on a breathing apparatus and then put on a 50lbs back pack and spread a large sheet or pool liner over a swiming pool and jump from about ten feet up into the centre of this, then you'll get an idea of what it might be like to free yourself from such a water crash landing. And as for a BRS, well there have been a few cases of people deploying them and they failed to fire and they lived to tell about it, so remember that they are not fool proof either. There were a number of listings on the old list of saves that said ran out of fuel, as I recall, as well as like Ole said, a stated, "Lost Control". Then there were the ones that mentioned structural failure, but not as many as you would think. When added up I think the lost control and ran out of fuel were greater than the structural failure reasons for pulling the handle. The best thing is to first of all preflight properly, then fly safely and in conditions that are within your capabilities and don't add to your risk factor, something as stupid as flying low over open water or flying over water without the chance of a safe glide back to land. Don't be an Icarus, be his dad who lived to tell about it. This has just been something to bring you back to reality about what will be going on in a water crash. You may do what ever you think is best, but for me as someone who has been there, done that, got the t-shirt, well, like I said, I was lucky, I will jump every time in future, just before the trike hits the water and with my helmet on, if I ever find myself in that situation again. Though, I shall never place myself in that situation again, so it's a mute point for me. What about you? Fly safe always, Lucian Bartosik

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[ahlocks]

Definitely worth reading and what an eye opener. Thanks Bill.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

A valuable insight into one man's experience, however lets look at this scientifically.

 

Are there any accounts of someone jumping and surviving? If not is this because nobody has tried it or because none of them lived to tell about it?

 

There is a YouTube video of a skydive from a microlight in which you can see the extent of the pod deflection due to the passenger climbing out on the side of the pod to jump.

 

Please note that I do not condone anything depicted in the video and this is illegal in Australia, but it does provide some data for examining the possibility of jumping from a microlight as suggested by the person quoted in Skeptic's post.

 

The thing is:-

 

• While acknowledging that the survival rate in controlled water landings is undoubtedly much lower than for those on land, we do have two situations demonstrated in this thread where the pilot survived.
   
   
  
• We have no data on the suggested alternative of jumping before the aircraft touches the water.
   
   
  
• We can see from the video of skydiving from a trike, that the balance of the pod is changed very significantly by a passenger climbing out on one side. In a pilot only situation, the lower weight would mean a greater deflection.
   
   
  
• Those of us who fly trikes know that getting out is not as easy as just standing up and stepping out. In the proposed scenario, you have no external foothold, the pod shell is not strong enough to withstand a person standing on it and you will be gliding toward the water at a vertical rate of about 1,000'/min, assuming best rate of glide.
   
   
  

 

 

So if you were thinking of jumping at 50' above the water, it would be 3 seconds before the aircraft touched the water. The protagonists of jumping believe that in three seconds you will be able to push clear of the aircraft! I somewhat doubt it, particularly as if you are launching yourself from the pod, it will deflect in the opposite direction, thus absorbing a lot of your launch energy.

 

Microlights operating manual specifies that when occupied by one person, it must be in the front seat. That's for Cof G reasons, so getting up and moving about while the aircraft is gliding is quite likely to change the flight characteristics. Albeit that the pod will adjust position for the changed C of G, the different angle will create a change in parasitic drag. IMHO, the result is unpredictable.

 

It is a mistake of logic to look at one data point (the water landing experience told above) and try to extrapolate that anything alternate must be better.

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

 

[eastmeg2]

A dark, distant memory has just hit me. I think I recall being told of one more trick that can be used to lower the impact speed with the water AND improve your egress route options from the trike once in the water. Though it's up to each individual to decide if it's worth while, so here it is for discussion.

 

Disconnecting the front profile tube during the glide down should permit a stall flare (Hang Glider style) just before hitting the water. Conceptually at least this should reduce the speed you hit the water at and it's one less thing in your way as you swim out of the trike. Naturally, leave your seat belt on for the impact or risk being impaled on the lower section of the tube during the water impact. Or with the support of the profile tube missing, the base tube may fold on impact and it will impale you regardless.

 

Probably need to pull some near-Zero-G moves to get the pressure off the pins in the front pole to remove them.

 

I usually have a ballistic chute fitted and would always use that in a water ditching. But it's away for a repack & new rocket for the next month or few (Assuming that's possible).

 

Cheers,

 

Glen

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Interesting alternative, Glen.

 

I think that on the current data, I'd stay with conventional thinking; Fly the aircraft right into the crash, setup for a short, soft field landing. You know it won't be pretty.

 

In the video, it looked like it skied for about 40 - 50 metres before the nose dug in and the tumble, in which case that would absorb more energy before the sudden stop. Of course there's a big element of unpredictability, and this one was on still water.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Interesting alternative, Glen.I think that on the current data, I'd stay with conventional thinking; Fly the aircraft right into the crash, setup for a short, soft field landing. You know it won't be pretty.

 

In the video, it looked like it skied for about 40 - 50 metres before the nose dug in and the tumble, in which case that would absorb more energy before the sudden stop. Of course there's a big element of unpredictability, and this one was on still water.

David,

 

The water was shallow where he trashed it.

 

If it was shallow i would definetly stay with the trike.

 

If it was 15+ feet deep i'd bail

 

Alf

 

 

[flyingfooty28]

Wow - this has been a very interesting discussion. I'll be honest and say that my original plan when say flying in a particular location with only rugged 'tiger' country and rivers/lakes/water etc would have been to ditch in the water close by the bank.

 

With the points suggested so far I don't think I would be keen to put the aircraft in the drink especially with a passenger on board. I agree with David with regard to jumping from the aircraft again especially with a passenger ( I have enough trouble getting out on the ground) not a good move.

 

So my risk management tells me, why put myself in a position like this again, lets face it, where not flying people out of a War zone and I haven't had to Medi Vac any passengers lately so why risk it - I think I'll take that 20 min detour for a safer ride.

 

If I ever had to cross a large body of water it maybe seriously worth taking a heeds bottle- could make the difference.

 

Regards Jon

 

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Hi David,

 

The idea with the alternative that I suggested is that you get to fly the trike even further into the crash than you would normally be able to. With the front profile tube disconnected the pilot can continue pushing the bar forward in the flare beyond where it would normally be stopped by the front profile tube so you get a longer flare down to a lower airspeed before the real stall and splashdown. Some DTA trike pilots might be able to comment since they have no front profile tube.

 

I don't advocate flying with the front profile tube disconnected on trike designs that have one, but in emergency situations like an imminent water ditching it might be worth discussing.

 

Will such trike designs continue to fly (or glide) normally with the front profile tube disconnected? Some say it would. Others not so sure . . .

 

 

 

[alf jessup]

Hi David,The idea with the alternative that I suggested is that you get to fly the trike even further into the crash than you would normally be able to. With the front profile tube disconnected the pilot can continue pushing the bar forward in the flare beyond where it would normally be stopped by the front profile tube so you get a longer flare down to a lower airspeed before the real stall and splashdown. Some DTA trike pilots might be able to comment since they have no front profile tube.

 

I don't advocate flying with the front profile tube disconnected on trike designs that have one, but in emergency situations like an imminent water ditching it might be worth discussing.

 

Will such trike designs continue to fly (or glide) normally with the front profile tube disconnected? Some say it would. Others not so sure . . .

 

Glenn,

 

They will quit flying when the stalling angle is exceeded, so i'm hazarding a guess it would be past the front pole to a degree.

 

Might even mush as the trike does not really stall in the real terms of a stall (ie signifigant nose drop).

 

The only way to get a significant nose drop is to have a scary nose high angle at the stall which at height would probably lead to a tumble.

 

But being close to the water a mush mightnt be all that bad with the pole out if you could get it out that is.

 

Apparently the airborne trikes can fly with the pole not connected, some guy in NT i think killed himself when he realised the strutt wasnt connected he rushed his landing and hit a car or tree when the trike was flying perfectly fine in that configuration.

 

Alf

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I'm aware of several cases where trikes have been flown without the front strut pins in and have also seen a trike land at a flyin with the mast cam lock flapping about on the strap outside the trike. Seemingly no immediate harm came to them though I don't know how good the outcome would have been in rough air or a heavy landing.

 

I don't know how easy it would be to actually remove the pins in flight but my concern with releasing the front strut prior to ditching would be the risk of the impact folding the trike up and making egress even s harder. Whilst the front strut might impede exit I would have thought the wing wires would be a greater obstacle.

 

I could well be wrong but I thought the DTA 's had a limit on the wing keel which does the same job of preventing excessive pitch up inputs as the front strut does on more conventional trikes.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[aaron roberts]

Been reading this with interest as a new pilot with not much experiance I have a problem with keeping speed up on landing have seen new pilots on first solo stall some feet above ground and allmost fall I think it would be possable to stall and fall. Please don't get me wrong you guys that have been flying for a lot longer than me but would that not be possible?

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

... some guy in NT i think killed himself when he realised the strutt wasnt connected he rushed his landing and hit a car or tree when the trike was flying perfectly fine in that configuration.Alf

If it is the person I have met, then he is alive, but partially incapacitated in one arm. He still flys occasionally, but only with a CFI in the back seat, just in case.

My recollection of the story was that the Pip Pins holding the sleeve on the profile bar were out, but that the sleeve was still in place.

 

Been reading this with interest as a new pilot with not much experiance I have a problem with keeping speed up on landing have seen new pilots on first solo stall some feet above ground and allmost fall I think it would be possable to stall and fall. Please don't get me wrong you guys that have been flying for a lot longer than me but would that not be possible?

It is possible to stall a trike with the right (wrong) set of circumstances. Keep in mind that the stall speed changes with wing loading (combined all up weight and G forces), so it is easier to stall with two people on board and a full tank of fuel (at or close to MTOW) than with pilot only and say 20 litres.

Remember that a stall does not mean a slowing in forward speed, but results in an increase in velocity downwards (falling, if you like).

 

Even a "mush" will lose altitude, the amount depending on airspeed and whether you are flying the back of the power curve. The point is a "mush" is a partial stall, so some of the wing is stalled but not all of it. Usually the aircraft in that mode is unstable and may tend to drop a wing if held into the stall.

 

Stalling the wing or even partially stalling it at low level is extremely dangerous and to be avoided assiduously. Stalling at 10' above the runway will break the aircraft and lead to possible injury.

 

There are those who advocate "stalling the aircraft onto the runway". They are referring to stalling the wing either at or just before the wheels touch, not up in the air. While that may be an appropriate method for some aircraft, I do not think it is good for trikes. Since the wing has stopped flying, it leaves you no go-around option if you get caught by a wind gust in those critical moments. If you are close to stall speed, then a wind gust may cause the wing to stall, hence the typical recommendation to land at 1.3 times Vs and to add half the difference between gust and average wind speed to that.

 

I much prefer to "fly it on". It leaves you with the option to go-around, even after the wheels have touched down.

 

In the scenario in this thread, the uncertainty surrounds the fact that as soon as you wheels hit the water, you will lose forward speed very quickly. The reason you are in that predicament is that your engine has failed, so there's no go-around option. Although a stalled wing does not "fly" (produce lift), it does create a lot of parasitic drag, so the thought is that by pushing the bar out as far as you can as soon as the wheels touch or maybe just before they do, would help reduce forward speed and perhaps counter the moment created when the front wheel digs in and tries to flip the aircraft. All of this is very hypothetical, but interesting to discuss, none the less.

 

* I'm not an instructor, so this is opinion, not advice.

 

 

[alf jessup]

I have the ultimate solution for this thread.

 

How about we all don't let ourselves into this situation in the first place and we then won't have to test our theory's out:thumb_up:

 

Now that was a quick and simple fix.

 

For those who want to test it out, be my guest.

 

Alf

 

 

[Guest slb]

Mmm, I have been following this thread with interest. Having been a passenger in a Trike many times, I am interested in what you would say to your passenger if you were flying anywhere near water. You assume that no matter what, you will be able to land somewhere .... but what if you fall short? As a passenger, do I leave my visor down, or up? When do I undo my seat belt? (I am pretty much stuck behind the pilot with no room to move at all).