Best way to practice nav logging

[sseeker]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm after a good way to practice logging my navs. I've got about 6-7hours worth of practical nav flying but it got put on hold when I ran out of money. It really didn't feel like I was progressing mainly because I was stressing out trying to interpret everything that was going on. Filling out paper, going through checks, reading charts, where am I, doing practiced 1 in 60s. It was all WAY to much. I'm getting back into my navs now so I want to make sure I've got the process down in my head so I have some kind of a mental plan. This way I won't feel as much pressure and I'll save myself some money! I was thinking doing flights in the 172 on flight sim and practicing the procedures/logging but you can't really fly VFR on flight sim. Then I was thinking of just doing it all in my head i.e ok I've arrived at waypoint X, log time, new heading/ALT, late or early? if so revise next waypoint estimate etc...

 

What are your thoughts?

 

-Andrew

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I'm not sure how flight sim could help. Try navigating the planned route on Google Earth so you understand the terrain and note the significant landmarks that you have chosen in your plan. You may be surprised at how well you recognise the landmarks as you are actually flying. That may relieve some stress and allow you to enjoy the flight more.

 

As you get more adept, you won't need Google Earth. After all, if you have to divert, you won't necessarily have pre-planned the route, so this suggestion is just an assist for a few Navs, till you feel more comfortable.

 

It gets easier with practise. I don't think you are wasting money if you are enjoying the flight. Talk with your CFI and see what he / she suggests, as they are in the ideal position to understand what is holding you back, if that is in fact the case. Maybe you are making good progress, but just think you are slower than you would like.

 

 

[sseeker]

Hi David,

 

Thanks for the response, it's not so much the spotting landmarks that sets me back, it's the actual flight logging. Logging times, using the E6B etc... I was thinking of just using my electronic E6B on my phone, don't know if the flight school will allow it though. It's just as likely to break in flight as my plastic E6B...

 

-Andrew

 

 

[turboplanner]

As David says, you get dished up to you all sorts of unknowns, amendments to flight plans due to conditions etc. so the history of one flight is not necessarily going to be 100% useful for the next.

 

I remember doing the first three navs on track on all legs and arriving at the check points within one minute, and being the cockiest student in the school, then getting adverse winds, wrongly picking featurtes etyc for the next couple.

 

I think Google Earth could be the better one to deliberately put yourself off course, then calculate your way back etc to the point where you don't have to think so much so carry out every function.

 

Of course that's nothing to compare with the real thing, but you put your finger on the problem - money, and as an Association we must stay focused on the little things that white ant our flying budget.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

What sort of nav log sheet are you using? The standard airservices one? I found nav logging became 100 times easier when I designed my own sheet that had specific areas for a tank log, a table of frequencies etc. It was a lot easier to remember to change tanks etc when I had a specific table to fill in. I can send it to you if you like (it is designed for GA - I'm guessing you probably won't need a tank log or anything - but you can adapt it if you like).

 

What checks are you using? Do they include a log check?

 

I'm guessing you're using your E6B for calculations during diversions? The way I got better at that was to get the instructions for my flight computer and sat at home doing the practice calculations in the manual, just over and over. My main problem at the start was remembering which number in the calculation went on which part of the wheel. I still have to remind myself while flying, so tell myself Speed = Distance/Time - speed is the number next to the arrow, then distance is on the top of the wheel and time below that. It works all ways - so if you want to calculate speed etc, just put your distance over your time and the number next to the arrow will be speed etc.

 

One thing to make logging times easier is to wear a digital watch. I started with a watch that only had 5 minute markers so had to slightly guess what number it was pointing at which clearly didn't help my navving. My FI suggested wearing a digital watch during navs to make it really simple to check what time it is for logging time. It definitely helped.

 

Final piece of advice is that you're going to stress during training navs. Definitely. I spent most of my navs constantly feeling like I was less than 1 minute away from a nervous breakdown. I only got horrendously lost once, but still landed at the end of each nav feeling like I was never going to get the hang of the navving thing and was a hopeless pilot who should just circuit bash for the rest of their life. But my FIs kept saying I was progressing fine, so how you think you're going may not always be right, you may well be doing a LOT better than you think :)

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

... I found nav logging became 100 times easier when I designed my own sheet that had specific areas for a tank log, a table of frequencies etc. ..

Ditto. I also designed my own. The first two iterations didn't work so well, but with each, I learned just what info I needed and how best to represent it on my plan. I've been on version 3 since the latter part of my nav endorsement and haven't made any more changes in the last 150 odd hours since that time.

 

It is a personal thing though. You need to organise it the way your brain works. I just didn't like any of the "standard ones". They had too many columns that I don't use and not enough of what I do. I hasten to add that it is oriented at RAA requirements, not GA and use in a Trike, where you can't use big cumbersome things, and only have one hand to play with maps etc.. We don't use E6B calculators (although my GPS has one). Any calculations have to be mental.

 

I use a multi-count down timer for leg timings, as do most of the other local Trike pilots, but I've also seen them on the dash in 3-axis aircraft as well..

 

 

[rdarby]

I've just finished my nav's and felt stressed to the point of giving up all the way through until the solo nav, where all that practice I had been absorbing somehow kicked in and it was a breeze, I've never had such an enjoyable flight. Hang in there!

 

I found that less is more - I didn't use the whizz wheel in flight, or the tables I used for initial planning. I mentally worked things out if I had to. I also wrote it all on pages of the map I had photocopied, so I had one set of papers to deal with only. I used a cheap digital watch, with a BIG display, which helped a lot, and wrote the numbers on the map.

 

Get the basics in place, get used to what terrain looks like, how clouds sit on mountains, how small a rail line is from the air etc. then progress to using navigation tools in the air. Simply things and build it up lesson by lesson, don't go all out from the start.

 

I also learned not to look at the map. You have to have faith in your ability to pick a point ahead and fly to it, and not try match map to ground all the time, as it stresses you, or it did me anyway. I found by not looking at the map except where I expected to be near my next feature, it calmed me down which allowed me to think more and not panick and get lost.

 

And think about your definition of lost. I'm near the sea here so I know if I'm in trouble, fly East, avoid some controlled airspace and I will find the sea and then find my way home. I can't get lost if I think of it in that simplistic manner, hence I don't stress about it.

 

Also remember it's not a simple add on like doing the radio endoresement, it's a major achievement and hence will take quite a bit of time and effort and stress, I found it a lot more so than doing the initial training. If you accept the size of what you are doing, you may find it okay.

 

Good luck.

 

Ryan

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

I've just finished my nav's and felt stressed to the point of giving up all the way through until the solo nav, where all that practice I had been absorbing somehow kicked in and it was a breeze, I've never had such an enjoyable flight.

It was EXACTLY the same for me. I felt hopeless during all my navs, and felt like I should give up lots of times and resign myself to the circuit, then got sent off on my solo nav and had an amazing flight that I look back on with a lot more fondness than any other, even my first solo.

 

wrote the numbers on the map.

I did that too and it's very useful. I scribble all over my maps - times, 1 in 60s, most of the time I end up writing any diversion calculations on a corner of my map rather than on my log. If nothing else, FIs like to see you writing on your maps.

 

 

[sseeker]

Thanks for the advice everyone, practically I've used the AirServices nav log although now I've got this CASA VFR Kit I'm considering using their version (seems to fit nicely on the kneeboard with no folding). Checklists aren't a problem, we use CLEAROFF (Compass, Location, Engine, Altitude, Radio, Orientation, Fuel, Forced Landing). Also spotting major landmarks isn't a major problem, I have that down packed, it's fairly simple so far. I struggle most with using my E6B and logging the flight on the paper/plotting the map. In the Jabiru it's such a pain to do, you have to cross hands just to write on the paper (if you're right handed), the pockets in the door are crammed full of useless crap that you don't need while you're flying so I have no where but in between my legs to put my tools (lol interpret that how you want). If I could use my phone as an E6B it'd make the process much easier, I hate fiddling with the plastic one in flight. The first response from my flying school would be, "What if your phone freezes/runs out of battery/breaks mid flight, what would you do?" - Well what if my E6B was left on the dash, then it warps and was rendered unturnable...? I just need to practice keeping my logs because when you spend half the flight with your head in your lap trying to interpret what you wrote on the paper, there's something wrong.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[sseeker]

Darky and Ignition, if you could please send me a PM with the nav logs I'd appreciate it. Word from the CFI says I'm allowed to use an electronic E6B, my navs just got 20x easier.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Darky and Ignition, if you could please send me a PM with the nav logs I'd appreciate it. Word from the CFI says I'm allowed to use an electronic E6B, my navs just got 20x easier.

I'll send it to you when I get home. It's double sided but if you don't have a printer that prints double sided (I don't) then just print one side and whack the same piece of paper in the other way to print the other side.

 

This may be a silly question, but presumably you're only using your E6B maybe once or twice a nav for diversions aren't you? Wouldn't it be easier to practice the few calculations you're going to need to do on the run rather than have to pull your phone out and open the app and type in each box etc?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Im an IT guy........use the wiz wheel......If it feels unfamiliar or clumsy then you need more practise.

 

Its not always about how comnfortable you are with tech, if it were that alone then why would we bother with paper maps, or paper flightplans or even learning DR Nav and not just use GPS etc.

 

Murphy has a much tougher job of screwing up a paper map or a wiz wheel that he would have with the more recent alternates....

 

That said I understand your issues with the jab. I always recall in the RAAF seeing the DC3 pilots using chinagraph (wax) pens on the windows and they had a damn side more room than you do in a 230....

 

that said, if the aircraft is trimed right you can just use pedals to maintain wings level etc for the time you need your hands free...

 

As to the "stuff" in the pockets....surelly thats not a problem that you cant fix on the ground before you go.... In fact make it a point to do that, its all part of the appropraite pre flight preparations that we all do on the ground cause its sure as hell easier down here than up there

 

Andy

 

 

[sseeker]

I use my wiz wheel more than once in flight, calculating new ground speed, new ETA etc...

 

Thanks I'll check out the tables ASAP.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

It sounds like you are what I call "micro navigating". Too many checks, too many calculations too much map reading.

 

Look at the big picture; road intersections are great to confirm position and calculate ground speed. The hilltop to your right and the lake to your left are for keeping you on track.

 

It doesn't sound like you need a log sheet with more detail - quite the opposite. I barely use mine; as others have suggested, write on the map.

 

 

[sseeker]

Bas, I did have that but on my second nav I managed to get the hang of actually looking far around me. I struggle most with the log keeping, really because I wasn't ever taught an effective way to do it. Just wanna make myself a mental plan so it doesn't overwhelm me.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[Bryon]

Ignition and Darks, can you send me a copy of your logs as I am developing my own and can always use more input

 

Cheers and thanks

 

Bryon

 

 

[Tomo]

Hey Darky and Cam, wouldn't mind seeing your layout too! Only if you get the chance - you can email it to: tomo @ recreationalflying . net

 

Also putting contact on your charts so you can write over it with fine marker (of different colours) is real handy when doing intense CTA stuff. (I've found)

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Don't worry, Darky has highlighters......;)

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

I found that you can practice the procedures on flightsim very well. I have FSX with the orbx scenery for WA, and also use the Allan Blencowe airstrips, so it's fairly customised but I find the navs can be flown spot on, with actual landmarks like powerlines, lakes, wheat bins, transmission towers etc in the correct spots. I custom built my pc for FSX so the graphics are quite good as well. I manually put the weather in e.g winds 226\16 and plan it as if you were planning a real nav. I was amazed at how accurate the sim actually is, woulf find myself overhead at the exact times planned. Sure it's no substitute for the real thing but great for practising planning, inflight procedures, checks, diversions etc. I found the tecnam Sierra (payware) is a great plane for it as well. And it's alot of fun too

 

 

[sseeker]

Magneto,

 

I practiced on FS2004 with no addon scenery and the graphics on ultra high and I agree with you, it's real accurate. I did a very basic nav YPJT - YPEA - YGIG - YPJT with custom wind @ 270/12, I planned it all out, used the E6B etc... and sure enough I arrived at YGIG 2418 as planned :big_grin: I only use it for practicing my logging though, because believe it or not I still managed to stuff up a few entries lol. This weekend I'm going shopping at the pilot shop for all new ERSA, CAG, Charts, utensils etc... Is there anything useful anyone recommends for planning? My instructor and some others in this post mentioned chinagraph pencils, worth getting some?

 

-Andrew

 

 

[rdarby]

The Chinagraph pencils are quite thick, and you can't write well with them. I photocopy the maps so I can write in coloured markers all over them, then throw them away when done.

 

 

[sseeker]

If those numbers are times then I estimate around XX:02-XX:09...

 

-Andrew

 

 

[sseeker]

Been playing with the wiz wheel and it's actually pretty easy to use... I know how to do the Time+Distance stuff and 1 in 60s on it now. Question about 1 in 60s. You find you're off track but you've got a fix so you can do a 1 in 60, you work out how long it took you to get to that fix from your previous on track fix then do the calculation on the wiz wheel to parallel you to your track, then you wait for however long it took you to get off track while flying the corrected heading, then do a further calculation on the wiz wheel to put you back on heading correct?

 

-Andrew

 

 

[rdarby]

This link gives an overview of several, not just 1 in 60.

 

But I don't use the wheel in flight, a ruler and a mental calculation should do it. I may be making it too simple but I can't handle more in flight.

 

Use a ruler to work out the distance off track, and to work out the distance travelled since the last time you were on track. Convert it to 60's in your head which gives you an angle to parallel your track. Double it to get back on track, and now either estimate in your head the time or work it out on the wheel to tell you how long to go in that direction. I tend to guestimate it knowing that my ground speed is usually 95. However now my accuracy is getting less as groundspeed changes and I can make mental errors, but working out time over distance should be easy enough using a wheel in flight.

 

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/nav/track%20error2.htm

 

Ryan

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Isn't half the point of the 1 in 60 that ya don't need the wheel?