Have our Grass Roots changed?

[eightyknots]

You're a visionary F-T.I've mentioned a few time that we've passed Peak Oil, but haven't had a single bite.

You can currently buy a four engined scale electric composite Hercules for about $3800.00, and it would nearly carry Ahlocks

These kinds of planes -pictured below- have helped the world to reach the peak oil crisis point.

 

 

 

[turboplanner]

this is a very ugly a/c........

Just put a bag over its head

 

 

[pudestcon]

Just put a bag over its head

Don't need a bag... I'm into 'ugly'

 

Pud

 

 

[RickH]

[removed] Heon. Your comment about not being able to build a four stroker for less than $40,000 is pure BS as Bubbleboy pointed out. I have Built a four stroke (BMW powered) Aluminium truss framed Texas Parasol which to date has cost less than $10,000 and no I haven't left something out and although I have not yet completed the wings I do have in stock all material needed. This is the last part of the aircraft requiring completion and unless paint has gone crazy pricewise in the last week or so I can't see this costing me $30,000.

 

[removed] And no it's not a broom stick with a lawn mower engine, I guess that makes me and a lot of other builders out ther pretty bloody good hey. Or is the reason for your opinion that you are a supplier and simply want to suppy aircraft and discourage home building.

 

Regards RickH

 

Some comments removed to keep the peace - Mod

 

 

[fly_tornado]

What flavour of BMW did yu choose?

 

 

[RickH]

PS there is also another military term that seems your above comment did and that is DROP SHORT

 

RickH

 

 

[RickH]

Hey fly tornado the BM I used is an R90S bmw claims max 67hp my thinking is that stock standard probably more like 64hp May get 67 with double plugging annd a port and polish

 

RickH

 

 

[fly_tornado]

BMW have gotten some power out of those engines, my 1150s are good for 95 and the R1200s are now pushing 130

 

 

[RickH]

Yeah mate. Is 95 the actual hp. as I was under the impression that BM claimed 100 for that engine

 

 

[dazza 38]

Peak oil occured in 1967 - 1968. Since then we have just been running on what's left in the tank.I think with current battery technology, 600kgs will be too little. Unfortunately there are presently no batteries that match liquid fuels for Joules / Kg or Joules / M^2.

I dunno mate, when I worked in Saudi Arabia, I got the impression that there is alot more Oil around than what we are told. Eg- Iran =at the time found a oil reserve that will keep us going for years maybe 50 plus from memory that was one find at the time. Australia has alot off oil, but cap it waiting for either the price to go up or for the middle east countries to run out.

 

PS- dont listen to Bob Brown. He is full of BS.IMO

 

PPS- The Horn of Africa has alot of Oil also found recently over the last couple of years.Thats why the Oil companies are try to buy out the local governments.Just heresay though.

 

 

[Exadios]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/a/-/wa/9322747/woodside-makes-oil-discovery-off-wa-coast/Pud

They have lowered their standards if they are calling a 100M bbl field an "oil giant".

 

A better source is something like the OGJ exploration page. You will see lots of discoveries around the world there. With those in mind we still ran out in 1967.

 

 

[Exadios]

I dunno mate, when I worked in Saudi Arabia, I got the impression that there is alot more Oil around than what we are told. Eg- Iran =at the time found a oil reserve that will keep us going for years maybe 50 plus from memory that was one find at the time. Australia has alot off oil, but cap it waiting for either the price to go up or for the middle east countries to run out.PS- dont listen to the shirt lifter Bob Brown. He is full od BS.IMO

PPS- The Horn of Africa has alot of Oil also found recently over the last couple of years.Thats why the Oil companies are try to buy out the local governments.Just heresay though.

I also work in oil exploration and have done so since 1972. My work involves engineering exploration equipment and software. I do not listen to "Bob Brown" but I do listen to geophysicists. And I (in the company of thousands of others) spent the 1970s and 80s trying to prove Hubbert wrong.

 

PS. Do you have any coordinates for all these capped fields?

 

(Some language removed - Moderator)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Does anyone want to buy a coal mine that is full of spitfires?

 

 

[HEON]

RickH...if you had bothered to read some of my other posts, which you have of course not, you would have noticed that just recently I was talking about the Belite which was in KitPlanes for UNDER US$20,000! A four stroke is being investigated and could be fitted under R A Aus weight rules.

 

My origional post was concerning what are refered to as "plastic fantastics" replacing grass roots aircraft. I thought most people would have accepted I was refering to similar, modern, two place enclosed aircraft with a reasionable turn of speed. If you read articles concerning building OF THIS TYPE of aircraft(I would recommend KitPlanes) you would see that my statements are mostly supported and correct.

 

As an owner of a Drifter constructed last year I KNOW you can build Drifters (and of course other aircraft) for under $40ooo from kits (and from plans cheaper), although you will not do a Drifter with a new 912 for this price (Jab 80hp approved however). Would you consider BEFORE accusing a person of not being truthful, that I may just also have some FIRST HAND knowledge on the subject, and consider the context the statement was made.

 

I have reread my origional post several times and can find no reference to wanting to put people off home building...go for it! You can even build an amphibian if you want...a Sea Ray could fill your requirement...trust me however , you will not do it under $40000!

 

 

[Admin]

Guys we are completely off topic...can we please stay on topic or start another thread...thanks

 

 

[turboplanner]

The 1960's date is for the last commercial oils discoveries.

 

Peak Oil is no agreed to have occurred somewhere between 2000 and 2010

 

No one is saying oil is going to run out soon, it's a big bell curve.

 

But having hit the top we are gently going into the downhill run where there will be pricing cycles getting higher and higher by the year.

 

So realistically with people's budgets the way they are, grass roots flying will use minimal oil derivatives.

 

That means smaller aircraft or alternative power such as solar or electric

 

 

[Ed Herring]

Hi Guys

 

This is a subject that is close to my heart. You can see by my avatar what i love to fly as often as i can, as i consider the Powered Parachute to be just "ONE" of the "Grassroots Aircraft". And Grassroots it certainly is. The affordability and portability of a PPC stands alone in my opinion. To fly slowly in an open cockpit really does it for me. And i might add that i would be just as happy in a Thruster, Tyro, Trike or anything else, but of course if i want to go somewhere in a hurry i jump in the Grumman Tiger or the J230 or soon it will be our Fk 9. The thing i love most about aviation is simply that it does not matter what we fly or who we are, flying is a great leveler and creates equality. So fly what you like or what you can afford but just make sure you fly something.

 

Best Regards

 

ED

 

 

[Ed Herring]

If I use the term Grass Roots in a figurative manner of simply cheap and affordable flying rather then literely of Rag and Tube Ultralights, have our Grass Roots changed.Years ago we had cheap microlights (Trikes) that were simply a wing and a seat on a frame followed by the next step up being the rag and tube ultralights. Now we have the plastic fantastics replacing the rag and tube ultralights and Trikes are no longer just a seat and a wing but rather a sophisticated pod with all the mod cons...together the price of such machines, although cheaper then the GA alternatives, have hit the term of "Cheap and Affordable Fun Flying".

 

We are now seeing a surge in the Powered Chute class of fun flying machines that are cheap and affordable. Powered Chutes have also come a long way over the years but are still very affordable with minimal overhead costs such as hangarage, distance of takeoff so shorter runways (farm paddocks etc).

 

So for discussion purposes, is the Powered Chute the new, or becoming the new, Grass Roots of recreational aviation?

Hi Ian

 

Sorry but i forgot to actualy aswer your original question...! My personal experience in SA tells me that you are probably on the money. The PPC numbers here are steadily growing with a very enthusiastic group of people who definately consider themselves "Grass Roots" Aviators.

 

Best Regards

 

ED

 

 

[turboplanner]

Good news for electric aircraft

 

http://www.abc.net.au/ra/innovations/stories/s3208850.htm

 

If as he says, they have solved the thermal runaway issue, it will be no longer necessary for us to vote Ozzie as the official test pilot.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

That has always been my main concern after seeing some laptop batteries deliberately shorted to show the effected. having a hundred times plus that amount of power going Chernobyl on one would be like having full fuel tanks detonating. Mum said once i would probably go out like a blazing comet and i really would like to avoid that.

 

Got to admit tho it would look pretty spectacular if it happened on a sunset flight. Probably would also get a few good cheers from the several "fans" in the viewing gallery.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Who will fly new electric planes with the threat of a battery fire literally hanging over your head?

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Who would fly sittting on one of those fuel tank seats fitted with a submersable fuel pump, same difference only one will go fizzzzz and the other woooofmmphh

 

 

[eightyknots]

Who would fly sittting on one of those fuel tank seats fitted with a submersable fuel pump, same difference only one will go fizzzzz and the other woooofmmphh

 

Who will fly new electric planes with the threat of a battery fire literally hanging over your head?

Either way, it truly puts the pilot in the hot seat.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Who will fly new electric planes with the threat of a battery fire literally hanging over your head?

Did you three actually read the link?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I was assuming the batteries where coming out of a factory in bundaberg...