for all you techies out there.

[flying dog]

When I plug my phone into the PC and use it to connect to the net is where I am having troubles.

 

Yes, I can get all that part of it working.

 

But here is the "problem":

 

My PC has a FIXED IP address. As does my LAN.

 

I want to "Bridge" the internet connection from the USB port to the ethernet port.

 

Problem is that when the phone/PC connects to the internet, my IP number is changed.

 

WAY WAY WAY different.

 

So, I can see the internet, and all that good stuff, but I can't see any of the machines on my LAN.

 

"BRIDGING" the two points is fairly easy. I open "Network connections" and highlight the two icons. RMB and select "BRIDGE".

 

O/S: XP SP2.

 

But I want a way that the ETHERNET side of the system keeps the original IP number.

 

The phone to PC can have anything it wants.... So long as the "BRIDGE" only does that, and doesn't change the IP of the PC at the ethernet side of things.

 

Anyone?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

FD I dont understand your problem, let me feed it back and you can tell me where I have missunderstood.

 

When your PC is connected to the home LAN via the RJ45 ethernet it has a fixed IP and pressumably internet access is done via the LAN, perhaps a router.

 

When the PC/Laptop is mobile you want to use the phone. In that case the ethernet port will be disconnected from the LAN and the fixed IP address allocated to that port becomes irrelevant because the OS knows its not active.

 

Or is it that you want the LAN connection and the phone connection active at the same time and the internet connection on your phone to be provided more widely to other LAN connected devices?

 

If that is the case then you need to advise the other LAN participants that the gateway is the ethernet port on your PC (Gateway will be the fixed IP address of your PC ethernet port) and you need to set up routing on your PC so that it knows it has to handle traffic for other devices. You might google internet connection sharing, however I seem to recall that also enable a DHCP server on your PC and it from memory used a Microsoft specific set of non routable IP Addresses that wont work with your fixed IP addressses in the rest of the LAN.....from memory that is...... http://windows.microsoft.com/en-AU/windows-vista/Using-ICS-Internet-Connection-Sharing might shed some light on it if sharing the phone connection with other LAN devices is what you are trying to achieve

 

Andy

 

P.S in rereading your email perhaps I missed the point where you said internet from phone all Ok, but nothing else on the LAN contactable at that time....If that is the case its likely because you havent got the static routes in place on the PC so that the PC knows which ports to use for which hosts. When the phone comes on line I suspect that all requests for LAN clients are going out via the phone and of course most LANS are set up with non routable IP ranges and as such the request just dies a death.... If this is the issue try this one for sizee http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Configuring-multiple-gateways-on-a-network. I ve assumed Vista, but Win 7 not likely to be hugely different and the terminology is the same for earlier OS's so go to town with Google

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

FD;

 

You cannot bridge two networks that have different "Network Addresses", they have to be "Routed" or a NAT (Network Address Translation) performed.

 

An IP Address is comprised of two components; The Network Address and the Host Address. Your LAN has a single "Network Address", which comprises the high order bits of the IP Address. The number of bits making up the Network Address are defined by the "Subnet Mask". Often in a home LAN the Network Address is 192.168.0.nnn with a Subnet Mask of 255.255.255.0

 

"255" is the decimal value that represents an 8 bit binary number that is "11111111", so this mask is indicating that the top 24 bits comprise the Network Address, leaving the remaining 8 low order bits to allocate to "Hosts".

 

This does not stop you Bridging and having multiple different IP Networks on the same LAN, however any individual Host can only connect to one IP Network with each network adapter configuration, but that does not help you.

 

I'm assuming you want other PCs on the LAN to be able to connect to the Internet via your Tethered PC?

 

If so, then Routing isn't what you need, but rather an application that allows "Internet Connection Sharing". What that does is provides:-

 

• IP address allocation on the LAN via DHCP
   
   
  
• Proxies DNS to provide DNS lookup
   
   
  
• Performs NAT for the other PCs.
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I am no expert on Windows XP and dial up, but I reckon your problem is using bridging. Turn that off an instead find the "Internet Sharing" options and turn that on.

 

That will keep your LAN IP the way it was and makes it work as gateway for the other devices on your lan to use the internet.

 

Internet Sharing should have DHCP, but if the other devices are on a static IP too, you may need to configure you PC's ip in the as gateway as well as DNS server.

 

 

[Powerin]

It is the "interface" (eg. an ethernet port) on a computer that has an IP address, not the computer itself. So if you have 2 interfaces, such as ethernet and wireless on a laptop, they will normally have two different IP addresses. Where I have used "bridging" it is to have two LOCAL network interfaces (such as an ethernet port and a wireless card), on the same computer, share the same local IP address and network traffic can travel through the computer between the two interfaces transparently as if they were the same local network. Then computers on the wireless side and the ethernet side can see each other.

 

A "wireless router/modem" uses a bridge to connect its ethernet ports through to it's wireless port, but it uses a router to connect and share the Internet into those ports. These days the terms "bridge", "switch" and "router" etc are all becoming a bit blurred as they are often combined into one device. What you are needing to do is "route" not "bridge" your phone interface, which will have a unique Internet IP address provided by your telco, through your computer to your ethernet interface, which has a fixed Local IP address on your network. Note that there is a special set of IP addresses used for local internal networks that don't work on the Internet...hence the need for all this NAT stuff.

 

All of which is another way of saying what Bas, David and Andy said above....don't use a bridge, use Internet Connection Sharing. Like Bas I'm not that familiar with how Windows does it, but I assume Internet Connection Sharing will take care of DHCP in some unique Microsoft way

 

 

[flying dog]

Thanks guys.

 

Yeah, I didn't explain it too clearly it seems. That is because that is not my usual area of work and it is still all "Greek" to me.

 

Ok, I shall go back and read the posts again, but as good as the replies are, they are not "specific" enough to really help me.

 

Ok, the setup:

 

I have about 5 machines all on my LAN. THERE IS NO OUTSIDE ACCESS. I didn't say my ADSL LAN. It is just a LAN. LOCAL being the important word here.

 

All the machines have their FIXED IP numbers.

 

One machine gets teathered to the internet via its 3G. This is on a USB port.

 

I asked else where:

 

My internet is done from a USB port.

 

I want to share that connection to my "LAN".

 

I can't remember what it is called, but could someone help me set it up?

 

And this is what I got:

 

its generally called bridging.

 

So reading the replies here, I would say that is not exactly the right thing for me to do.

 

I've heard of ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) as well, but that is just as confusing/unknown to me as bridging, and when the reply came back saying it is "bridging" I went with that.

 

So, what's the problem I am having?

 

Well, my LAN works. When I connect/teather my phone to the/a computer (usually the same one) the computer's IP address changes. WAY WAY changes.

 

I don't understand why when I think about it.

 

The phone connects to the net. Not the computer. Outside the phone has an IP address it gets from the "3G" system. Back towards the computer it doesn't really matter what IP it has. So, if I can tell the phone to be a particular IP address - within the range of my LAN - all would be good.

 

But I don't know which is the easier path now. Do I go with this ICS, NAT stuff, or can I simply tell the phone to use a certain IP address towards the computer?

 

(HTC Desire OS 2.1 - can't upgrade to 2.2 for some weird reason. HTC's site says the IME is not accepted. That's another story. Just so you don't give me instructions which are only in 2.2 though.)

 

All this talk about wireless modems/routers, etc. Yeah, nice, but that isn't where the "internet" connects to my LAN. It is through the phone and the computer into which is it plugged.

 

Now, something else (added via edit) DNS.... When I go into my "network settings" and click on the TCP/IP and then properties I get the screen where I can set the IP as either fixed or from a server. Then it has a "Default DNS" (or something). DNS, yeah, Domain Name Server. I have fixed IP addresses and the LAN works. WHY/HOW this works I don't know. But I have set it (in all machines) to this one computer. Is this right or wrong?

 

I don't think I can leave it blank.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Stop arguing, turn of bridging and turn on ICS if you want other devices on your lan to us the internet and don't want you LAN IP to change!

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

FD, with the extra info you provided you need ICS, and only ICS, however because of the fixed IP addresses you will need to manually configure each LAN machines IP settings such as gateway, DNS and potentially IP address as well. If you were prepared to change from fixed IP addresses to ones allocated by DHCP then all those settings would be automatically filled with the correct settings.

 

However if fixed IP is exactly what you want my suggestion is to add a laptop to the LAN temporarily with its setup as get IP adr via DHCP. Once you have it and its all working have a look at the IP settings and see if you can translate across to your fixed IP addresses. That wont be as simple as it sounds, any you may need assistance from someone in the know.

 

Alternatively there are heaps of ADSL routers available now that have 3G backup available in the router itself, you plug the 3G dongle into the router USB Port (check that your dongle is supported, not all are) and the ineternet is then available to all LAN participants. The downside is that there is a hardware cost, and the 3G access becomes a data specific access. If the current method is using a phone then you loose the voice side of things....

 

Andy.

 

P.S You cant change the IP address on your phone, indeed there will probably be 2 addresses, one as the phone as a member of the telco's network, and another as the interface to your computer. In fact the phone is doing ICS as well....Anyway dont let that confuse you, just dont play with the phone IP addresses or the Computers IP address for the USB interface (assuming it exposes that to you).

 

P.P.S DNS. DNS is a database that allows you to type in abc.net.au into your browser and the machine then uses DNS to know to conect to 203.2.218.214. In a small LAN like you have there are other Microsoft mechanisms at work so that each machine knows of other devices. However if DNS isnt configured correctly when you get ICS up and running on the remote machines then a request for abc.net.au wont work where a request for 203.2.218.214 will. Like all the IP Settings you have to get it right. That fact that everything is working now doesnt mean that its right, just that you dont need it at present but will when you have ICS working.

 

 

[flying dog]

bass, I wasn't arguing.

 

I have turned off bridging. It doesn't work.

 

Andy,

 

Reading your post, it is getting WAY too complicated.

 

I have a machine I use mostly. I plug the phone into the USB port and connect to the 3G network.

 

All is sweet. Now and then, it is handy to have internet access from other machines. Instead of having to move the phone to the other machine and do what I have to then back to the "main" machine I was hoping for an easy solution.

 

setting up another machine means I have to get it setup with windoze - as I don't think HTC have a LINUX/UNIX version of their teather software - and boot it up if I want internet access. Wow..... WAY too difficult.

 

:(

 

It isn't a 3G dongle. It is a HTC Desire.

 

I guess what an easy solution to it is that I change my fixed IP addresses to something in the range which the phone is giving me at the computer (USB) side of it.

 

So:

 

If my lan is 192.168.0.x

 

and the phone gives me 192.168.100.x then it would simply be me changing all my IP numbers to that range - right?

 

That is looking like the easiest solution.

 

 

[Powerin]

OK...looks like because you are bridging the connection the ethernet port is taking on the same IP address as your phone has on the Internet.....which is bad. You cannot tell the phone to have a particular IP address because this is what is allocated to your phone when it connects to the Internet. It is the address the "Internet" uses to identify and communicate with your phone (and therefore your computer). It will be different every time you connect but you cannot change it.

 

You cannot use this address on your LAN. Your LAN needs to use IP addresses that are especially reserved for LANs and don't interfere with the "Internet". These addresses will start with "10." or "192.168.".

 

So turn off bridging....it is not what you want! You need Internet connection sharing which basically turns your computer (with the phone) into a "router". I don't have an XP computer handy, but there is a wizard somewhere to set up Internet Connection Sharing (Control Panel?). Your phone interface is the one you want to share. You will need to set up each LAN computer to use your phone computer for the Internet (gateway and DNS). You can tell them to do this automatically (ICS may take care of this), or you need to manually set each one to use the phone computer's LAN address as a "Gateway". Then you need to set DNS and this MIGHT be your phone computers LAN address or it might be the DNS server IP address that your telco uses. If all else fails you can use the address of Google's public DNS server- "8.0.0.8".

 

Clear as mud?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I have turned off bridging. It doesn't work.

What isn't working? No internet even on your computer now? No access from other devices?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

FD

 

There are many that will try and tell you home networking is easy. That is the case until what you have is outside the usual, and then you need to understand the technology at work. I'm just not smart enough to give you the 2 liner that your looking for to make it work.

 

Try what your suggesting, I think that you will get some features working but maybe not all on all your lan devices....

 

Here's my attempt at bouncing ball stuff:-

 

1) turn on ICS on the machine your phone connects to (and by inference turn off bridging)

 

2) Read this article and change the DHCP Range that ICS issues addresses on, to match your LAN (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/230148) then you wont have to change IP Addresses, but will need to add the correct gateway and DNS info, or change each LAN client to get its IP address from DHCP (which will work fine when the phone is connected and ICS is working, but will all fall in a heap for the LAN machines when it isnt) Default range is 169.254.0.X

 

And that is that. Ive provided all the appropriate Microsoft help, if that doesnt do it for you pay someone to set it up, just like you choose not to do your own brain surgery or mains connected electrical work because it requires skills you may not have... Ring a "Geek" they are in the back of all the local rags...

 

What you want is achievable and can be done readily

 

Andy

 

 

[Hongie]

Do you have a router in your network topography or just a switch/hub?

 

If it was my setup (not saying its neccessarily the best way) i would use a router, still assign your ip addresses if that is waht you want, and set your gateway to the local or internal address of your phone. Your phone will still have 2 ip addresses... an internal address (your gateway) and a external address (which is what any external servers will see the requests coming from, ie. what this forum will see your address as)

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

FD;

 

If my lan is 192.168.0.x

and the phone gives me 192.168.100.x then it would simply be me changing all my IP numbers to that range - right?

 

That is looking like the easiest solution.

No that won't work.

 

1. Start by going back to the Known configuration. ie. turn off Bridging.
    
    
   
2. Tether your chosen Gateway PC and check that from it you can access other PCs on the LAN as well as Internet.
    
    
   
3. Turn on Internet Connection Sharing on your Gateway PC (using the Network Connection on your LAN, not the Phone Network Connection). The link in my first post gives you stepwise instructions.
    
    
   
4. Because MS likes you to do things their way, when you enable ICS, it will change the IP address on your LAN adapter to 192.168.0.1 which is the first available address on the defined Class C Private IP Address Range. If your LAN uses a different Network Address (as explained in my first post), you will have to change it back to what it was before, otherwise you can leave it as it is unless it now clashes with another PC on the LAN.
    
    
   
5. Now go to every other PC on the LAN and configure the "Default gateway" and DNS address as the IP address of the Gateway PC's LAN adapter.
    
    
   

 

 

Should work. You don't have to use DHCP and dynamic addresses, just because MS thinks you should. As with so many scenarios, they have tried to make it simple for people who don't have the networking background, but that assumes a fixed setup which does not suit everyone,

 

You have my phone number. Give me a call if you like.

 

* All of the configuration needs to be done, while logged in as an Administrator.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

set your gateway to the local or internal address of your phone. ..)

Sorry, but this just won't work. None of the PCs except the Gateway PC can see the Phone's Network connection, so don't know how to get to it. In addition, it requires routing and there's no routing setup in the Gateway PC. Further, even if all this was done and packets could get out, there's no return route as the phone doesn't know how to get to the LAN IP addresses.

 

 

[flying dog]

OK...looks like because you are bridging the connection the ethernet port is taking on the same IP address as your phone has on the Internet.....which is bad. You cannot tell the phone to have a particular IP address because this is what is allocated to your phone when it connects to the Internet. It is the address the "Internet" uses to identify and communicate with your phone (and therefore your computer). It will be different every time you connect but you cannot change it.You cannot use this address on your LAN. Your LAN needs to use IP addresses that are especially reserved for LANs and don't interfere with the "Internet". These addresses will start with "10." or "192.168.".

 

So turn off bridging....it is not what you want! You need Internet connection sharing which basically turns your computer (with the phone) into a "router". I don't have an XP computer handy, but there is a wizard somewhere to set up Internet Connection Sharing (Control Panel?). Your phone interface is the one you want to share. You will need to set up each LAN computer to use your phone computer for the Internet (gateway and DNS). You can tell them to do this automatically (ICS may take care of this), or you need to manually set each one to use the phone computer's LAN address as a "Gateway". Then you need to set DNS and this MIGHT be your phone computers LAN address or it might be the DNS server IP address that your telco uses. If all else fails you can use the address of Google's public DNS server- "8.0.0.8".

 

Clear as mud?

First parragraph.

 

NO I WASN'T (or now am no longer) BRIDGING THE CONNECTIONS.

 

My LAN IS 192.168.0.x

 

Has been since day dot.

 

I "bridged" the connections recently and the other machines could not see the internet, I couldn't see the other machines from my machine with the phone plugged in.

 

(This was done because I was told that bridging is what I needed. Be it I asked the wrong question or what ever.)

 

Hmmmm....... Looked at the IP number of this machine and found it to be 192.168.100.100

 

"Wow, what has done this?" I thinks.

 

Unplug the phone (or delete the bridge) and it reverts to 192.168.0.x

 

Ok, so obviously BRIDGING doesn't work.

 

I am very sure the phone's "IP" address which I am seeing (192.168.100.100) is on the ICS side of things, as I have been told that 192.168.x.x are specifically for LOCAL networks and not for use on the internet.

 

Second parragraph.

 

Isn't that what I said? I have 192.168..... Ok, 10.xx.xx.xx is also allowed.

 

BRIDGING IS TURNED OFF - This was done days ago when I realised the PC's IP address was being changed from 0.x to 100.100 when the phone was plugged in and the LAN was dead/un-usable.

 

Now I shall have to look into more of this ICS when I get home.

 

(At work just now)

 

Reading next reply now.

 

 

[flying dog]

What isn't working? No internet even on your computer now? No access from other devices?

With the phone plugged into the computer and connected to 3G, all I can do is surf the net on THAT machine.

 

The LAN is dead in the water - because the PC's IP address has been changed from 0.x to 100.100 which is way outside the subnet mask range.

 

Other PC's on the LAN work within themselves, but no-one can see the PC plugged into the phone - for reasons stated.

 

And

 

The PC plugged into the phone can't see any of the PC's on the LAN.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

So have you turned on ICS yet?

 

 

[flying dog]

Do you have a router in your network topography or just a switch/hub?If it was my setup (not saying its neccessarily the best way) i would use a router, still assign your ip addresses if that is waht you want, and set your gateway to the local or internal address of your phone. Your phone will still have 2 ip addresses... an internal address (your gateway) and a external address (which is what any external servers will see the requests coming from, ie. what this forum will see your address as)

I have a D-Link 1 gig switch. 24 port. DG-S 1024 is the model. Got it at a good price. D-link are usually crap, but for the right price, I thought I would use it. Otherwise I have a skymaster 100 Meg switch. Teenyweeny thing with 8 ports. The D-link has 24. (Yeah, I'm getting ambitious) ;)

 

I don't think it is able to be programmed - which is kind of good, kind of bad.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

With the phone plugged into the computer and connected to 3G, all I can do is surf the net on THAT machine.The LAN is dead in the water - because the PC's IP address has been changed from 0.x to 100.100 which is way outside the subnet mask range.

Other PC's on the LAN work within themselves, but no-one can see the PC plugged into the phone - for reasons stated.

 

And

 

The PC plugged into the phone can't see any of the PC's on the LAN.

So there's a fundamental problem. Even without ICS, the Gateway PC should be able to surf the Internet AND see the other PCs.

 

The HTCSync software should have created an additional Network Connection, not changed the LAN connection.

 

While tethered, Open a CMD window on the Gateway PC and at the command prompt type "ipconfig /all" without the quotes and press <Enter> Key.

 

Post the listing that results or if you prefer, PM me.

 

 

[flying dog]

Until I get home I can't do anything.

 

When I get home I shall try this ICS - and read the links from Andy to get up to speed with them.

 

So, until then - this afternoon - nothing is going to happen.

 

 

[flying dog]

The HTCSync software should have created an additional Network Connection, not changed the LAN connection.While tethered, Open a CMD window on the Gateway PC and at the command prompt type "ipconfig /all" without the quotes and press <Enter> Key.

 

Post the listing that results or if you prefer, PM me.

David,

 

I'm only reporting what I see happening.

 

Phone unplugged the IP is what I set in the config window.

 

Plug the phone in and get the IP address, it changes from 0.x to 100.100 (rest being the same)

 

I have a program which is basically IPconfig but with a GUI. I run it and click the RESOLVE button and it shows me the machine's IP address.

 

But, I shall try it when I get home both before and after the phone is connected and report back.

 

Note/reminder: The phone is 2.1! :(

 

 

[fly_tornado]

trick is ICS only works one way.

 

 

[flying dog]

Fly, can you explain "only works one way" a bit more?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

follow the ICS instructions