for all you techies out there.

[flying dog]

Ok, here we go.

 

(Drum roll)

 

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]

 

© Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Shepherd>ipconfig /all

 

Windows IP Configuration

 

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : blacksheep

 

Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :

 

Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown

 

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

 

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected

 

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel® PRO/1000 CT Network Connect

 

ion

 

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0D-61-5B-8A-87

 

Above:

 

This was no switch turned on.

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Shepherd>ipconfig /all

 

Windows IP Configuration

 

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : blacksheep

 

Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :

 

Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown

 

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

 

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

 

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel® PRO/1000 CT Network Connect

 

ion

 

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0D-61-5B-8A-87

 

Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No

 

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.7

 

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

 

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

 

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.7

 

Above:

 

This was with the switch turned on.

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Shepherd>ipconfig /all

 

Windows IP Configuration

 

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : blacksheep

 

Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :

 

Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown

 

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

 

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

 

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel® PRO/1000 CT Network Connect

 

ion

 

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0D-61-5B-8A-87

 

Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No

 

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.7

 

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

 

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

 

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.7

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Shepherd>ipconfig /all

 

Windows IP Configuration

 

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : blacksheep

 

Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :

 

Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown

 

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

 

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

 

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel® PRO/1000 CT Network Connect

 

ion

 

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0D-61-5B-8A-87

 

Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No

 

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.7

 

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

 

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

 

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.7

 

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:

 

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

 

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : HTC Remote NDIS based Device

 

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 72-51-4C-C7-14-92

 

Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes

 

Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

 

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

 

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

 

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

 

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

 

Above:

 

Phone plugged in, set to "internet sharing" but 3G not turned on.

 

Now it gets interesting.

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Shepherd>ipconfig /all

 

Windows IP Configuration

 

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : blacksheep

 

Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :

 

Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown

 

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

 

DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : local

 

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

 

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

 

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel® PRO/1000 CT Network Connect

 

ion

 

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0D-61-5B-8A-87

 

Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No

 

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.7

 

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

 

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

 

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.7

 

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:

 

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : local

 

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : HTC Remote NDIS based Device

 

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 72-51-4C-C7-14-92

 

Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes

 

Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

 

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.100.100

 

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

 

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.100.254

 

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.100.254

 

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.100.254

 

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 11 May 2011 17:12:05

 

Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, 21 May 2011 17:12:05

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Shepherd>

 

Ok, I now see the TWO IP numbers.

 

I still have my LAN and also have the HTC's IP number.

 

Shall look at the ICS link now.

 

Just wanted to post what I found now before I forget.

 

 

[flying dog]

Ok, went though the motions and established ICS.

 

Yeah, I was told the IP of this computer will be changd to .1 Slightly annoying.

 

Can't test it just yet but can I change it back to .7 and have the ICS working?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I wouldnt. ICS will have set up a routing table inside that will expect the LAN interface to be .1 Why cant it stay as .1? if that is allocated elswhere change it on the other machine.

 

 

[flying dog]

So I guess I shall have to change the other machine (which isn't on the LAN just now) from 1 to ....... something else.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So I guess I shall have to change the other machine (which isn't on the LAN just now) from 1 to ....... something else.

Which isnt a real issue because your going to have to adjust the IP parameters on all LAN connected machines anyway to add the DNS and gateway entries ( 192.168.0.1 for both), no real effort to change the IP address at the same time.

 

PS, make the changes on the machine before you connect the physical ethernet port, having the same IP address will confuse things which may be absolutely no issue, or a very big issue depending on what is happening in the LAN at the time. (For most home use no issue at all, but you havent said why you have this setup at your house....)

 

 

[flying dog]

Lappy now on and plugged in.

 

Changed the DNS to 1 instead of 7.

 

Still can't get on the net.

 

Maybe because I haven't ticked all the right boxes when I was setting up ICS.

 

Off to look.

 

 

[flying dog]

Ok, I didn't tick the HTTP box.

 

So, if I want only browsers to work, that is the only box to tick - right?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

No idea, havent used ICS myself for 5-10yrs. Personally I would just allow all traffic which then leads to another intersting point...... Is your data plan unlimited? and if not how are you going to limit what gets used?

 

As an example Microsoft will try and download O/S updates in the background without your involvment as may other application software that youve installed. If you have multiple machines and Microsoft has a bumper patch month you may find that a great chunk of data usage gets used without you even being aware of it. The reason I ask is that most mongrel telcos havent moved to throttle 3G data once you use up your months allowance rather they just surge past your monthly limit at some exploitative ridiculous rate per kilobyte. Your $40 per month cap may suddenly turn into a $40 cap plus $1500 execss data usage fee....go very carefully here

 

 

[flying dog]

Yeah, well, don't worry about the plan. It is not to steamgiga bytes etc. It is just now and then when I am on the net I want to get things off the lappy, and though USB sticks is an option, it is silly if I could just plug it in the LAN and see the main machine as well.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Ok, here we go.(Drum roll)

 

...

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Shepherd>

 

Ok, I now see the TWO IP numbers.

 

I still have my LAN and also have the HTC's IP number.

 

Shall look at the ICS link now.

 

Just wanted to post what I found now before I forget.

The final IP configuration with the Phone connected and 3G tethered looks fine.

 

At this point you should have been able to access the Internet and the other PCs from "blacksheep"?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Ok, so what we have been setting you up for is internet access off all other LAN connected devices. If all you want to do is have internet on the main machine and be able to access the other LAN connected machines at the same time, but not for them to have internet access then dont bother setting up DNS and Gateway on the the other LAN machines....

 

 

[flying dog]

Dave,

 

No, still hitting head on brick wall.

 

BTW

 

Got my PM?

 

 

[Powerin]

I'm lost. This is totally different from what I thought. So I'm asking the following for my own curiosity and maybe David could answer....hope you don't mind FD, sorry I didn't help.

 

So the phone is connected to the computer via USB?

 

The phone has its own local private IP address - 192.168.100.254

 

The USB port is being used as an ethernet port and has the local address 192.168.100.100

 

If that's the case I reckon a bridge WOULD work. What if you bridge "Local Area Connection 2" to "Local Area Connection". Then your ethernet adapter (Local Area Connection) should also get the same address 192.168.100.100. (?)

 

OK, now just go with the flow and change one of your other computers to match this network. Easiest would be just to set it to use DHCP as your phone seems to provide it. Or if you want to do it manually set the IP address to say 192.168.100.101 and the gateway and DNS to your phone's address - 192.168.100.254

 

Can it see the Internet now?

 

EDIT.... that turned from questions into instructions didn't it. I had a bit of a lightbulb moment mid post. Sorry if it confuses the issue

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I'm lost. This is totally different from what I thought. So I'm asking the following for my own curiosity and maybe David could answer....hope you don't mind FD, sorry I didn't help.So the phone is connected to the computer via USB?

 

The phone has its own local private IP address - 192.168.100.254

 

The USB port is being used as an ethernet port and has the local address 192.168.100.100

 

If that's the case I reckon a bridge WOULD work. What if you bridge "Local Area Connection 2" to "Local Area Connection". Then your ethernet adapter (Local Area Connection) should also get the same address 192.168.100.100. (?)

 

OK, now just go with the flow and change one of your other computers to match this network. Easiest would be just to set it to use DHCP as your phone seems to provide it. Or if you want to do it manually set the IP address to say 192.168.100.101 and the gateway and DNS to your phone's address - 192.168.100.254

 

Can it see the Internet now?

 

EDIT.... that turned from questions into instructions didn't it. I had a bit of a lightbulb moment mid post. Sorry if it confuses the issue

No you cannot Bridge because the Phone is providing just one IP address; that used by gateway PC. Remember a Bridge works at the MAC Layer which is below the Network Layer where IP lives. If the phone could issue multiple IP addresses and NAT them through to the Internet, then Bridging would work, but it doesn't

Further, only one network adapter can cave the same address, so if the two adapters on the Gateway PC were bridged, then only one would need an IP Address associated with it. You could have two addresses on the same network, but to no advantage.

 

ISO Network Layer Model:-

 

7-Application

 

6-Presentation

 

5-Session

 

4-Transport - Transport Control Protocol / User Datagram Protocol

 

3-Network - Internet Protocol

 

2-Link - MAC addresses (Ethernet)

 

1-Physical - Cable

 

A web connection from one of the other PCs on the LAN follows this path:-

 

1. userPC
    
    
   
2. A packet originating on the userPC travels to the Gateway PC and connects with an ICS NAT service on Port 80 of thre Gateway PC's internal LAN IP address.
    
    
   
3. ICS translates the source IP in the packet to the IP of the Gateway PC on the link to the Phone and sends it to the phone's IP address.
    
    
   
4. The phone (and telco network together) also has a NAT process that translates the source address of the outgoing side of the Gateway PC to the Internet address on the Internet side of the Phone and sends the packet to the web site.
    
    
   
5. web site terminates the one way connection.
    
    
   

 

 

Now a returned packet has to negotiate the mapped path back the other way. In IP it isn't like a hose carrying water. Each direction has to follow routing rules and mappings independently and may even take different routes through the Internet.

 

USB from the phone to the PC provides it's own Physical, Link and Network layer protocols which then carry an encapsulated IP packet across the top, so no the USB Port isn't an Ethernet port and does not carry Ethernet. USB replaces Ethernet as the Link Layer under IP. That is implemented with a driver that presents the network adapter and tunnels IP over USB to the phone. A subtle but important difference in understanding, although the principles here apply regardless of whether the connection between the phone is Ethernet or USB.

 

PS. After a long phone conversation with FD, it is now working. :-)

 

A non-windows firewall application was blocking ICS from connecting to the ports to provide its services.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So David, was FD requiring internet access for the other LAN clients, or just looking for dual LAN and Internet connectivity for the main machine? I could never get that entirely clear in my mind. If just the dual access are you sure the other LAN clients cant rack up data usage on the 3G device?

 

Andy

 

 

[Powerin]

No you cannot Bridge because the Phone is providing just one IP address; that used by gateway PC. Remember a Bridge works at the MAC Layer which is below the Network Layer where IP lives. If the phone could issue multiple IP addresses and NAT them through to the Internet, then Bridging would work, but it doesn't

Thanks David. Looking through the ipconfig stuff it looked to me as though the phone *was* providing DHCP and NAT. In "Internet Connection 2" DHCP, DNS and gateway were all listed. I assumed the phone must have provided these.

 

Further, only one network adapter can cave the same address, so if the two adapters on the Gateway PC were bridged, then only one would need an IP Address associated with it. You could have two addresses on the same network, but to no advantage.

It's years since I've played with this and I probably didn't understand what I was doing half the time anyway . But I thought the bridge becomes the network interface with the IP address and the adaptors connected to the bridge have this same IP address. For instance my wifi "router" has the same IP address on both it's ethernet and wifi interfaces, as does my wifi access point. Same with my Linux pc when I configured it as a wifi AP...the bridge got configured with the IP address.

 

USB from the phone to the PC provides it's own Physical, Link and Network layer protocols which then carry an encapsulated IP packet across the top, so no the USB Port isn't an Ethernet port and does not carry Ethernet. USB replaces Ethernet as the Link Layer under IP. That is implemented with a driver that presents the network adapter and tunnels IP over USB to the phone. A subtle but important difference in understanding, although the principles here apply regardless of whether the connection between the phone is Ethernet or USB.

Ahhh yes....wrong terminology using the word ethernet for the USB connection.

 

So...hypothetically, if the phone *was* providing the Internet gateway, NAT and DHCP, would it have worked to bridge the USB interface to the Ethernet interface on the PC?

 

Glad you got it working F-Dog!

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Powerin;

 

The phone provides DHCP for one IP address only, NAT and a DNS Proxy. Thus you can only connect one PC to it, even if it were an Ethernet interface and you plugged it into a Bridge. If you want to support multiple PCs connecting directly to the phone, it can be done by configuring the phone to be a Wireless Access Point. In this latter case each client PC connects to the WAP and apparently DHCP is able to issue multiple addresses via this connectivity.

 

A Bridge does not have an IP Address, because it lives on Layer 2 (Link Layer). If it is a "Managed Switch" that allows you to configure VLANs, do SNMP management, and such, then the Management Module will have an IP Address so you can talk to it.

 

...So the gateway PC ("blacksheep") must also provide its own NAT and DNS Proxy, to use the phone provided IP address as outgoing and the LAN address as incoming from the LAN connected PCs. Unlike the phone, ICS allows multiple PCs to connect to it. In this case F-Dog has static IPs on the LAN, but ICS also provides DHCP, so it would also work with dynamic IPs on the client PCs.

 

 

[flying dog]

Well, David and I got it working.

 

*&*&^&* Fire walls!

 

Now, I can be on the net and also see my other machines. As well, the other machines can also surf the net.

 

The latter is a bonus, but will be handy now and then.