Radio and speaking clearly

[Guest davidh10]

The standard phraseology is Traffic first. Alan.

I suggest you refer to CAAP 166 in which it specifies (I've added the colons and bold attributes to make it clearer):

6.5 The standard broadcast format for low and medium

 

performance aircraft is as per the following example:

 

• (Location) Traffic: Parkes Traffic

 

• (Aircraft Type): Cessna 172

 

• (Call sign): Zulu Foxtrot Romeo

 

• (Position/Intentions): One-zero miles north inbound, on descent through four-thousandtwo-hundred, estimating the circuit at three-six

 

• (Location): Parkes.

 

I second what Turbo has said. There's lots of pilots who are out of step with current phraseology. It is very common to hear "All Stations" calls, which I believe was the previous phraseology. We all have to do our best to keep up with regulatory changes as they occur. For some reason there has been a lot of confusion over the 3-June-2010 changes, particularly to the radio practises. It escapes me why this should be the case, as CASA have provided not only the changes, but also the CAAP 166 (1) and (2) as well as briefings at safety seminars all over the country.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The "All Stations" calls are interesting because these were superseded many years ago.

 

On the other hand the RAA website doesn't have to be upgraded just to put important information like this on permanent display for new members and for revision.

 

We do operate in GA airspace so the information needed on the site is:

 

How all the regulations nest

 

Where each one can be obtained (eg link)

 

And a good indexing system

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

The "All Stations" calls are interesting because these were superseded many years ago.On the other hand the RAA website doesn't have to be upgraded just to put important information like this on permanent display for new members and for revision.

 

We do operate in GA airspace so the information needed on the site is:

 

How all the regulations nest

 

Where each one can be obtained (eg link)

 

And a good indexing system

Absolutely.

John Brandon has provided some of this in his tutorials. The regulatory framework is here.

 

This content was moved here from the RAA web site, so hopefully with the new all singing all dancing RAA site to be unveiled in the unspecified future, it will again contain some of these things.

 

I think that RAA has particularly let its members down over the most recent CAO changes. The only info has been very high level magazine announcements that they were coming and then that they were here! No guidance for members on applicability or what it means or the exact changes.... hence so many questions in these forums. The difficulty with that is that people are going away with well intentioned, but non-authoritative answers. It is sometimes difficult to point to the CAO and say such and such a paragraph says.... As an example, the "flty to 10,000' amendment was the removal of limiting wording in the CAO, so you cannot point to it, the ability is reliant on going back to other legislation and understanding the relationships.

 

 

[ahlocks]

The "All Stations" calls are interesting because these were superseded many years ago.

Have a look at AIP general 3.3, section 5.7 and you'll understand why you still hear them.

http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/gen/3_3_1-24.pdf

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Have a look at AIP general 3.3, section 5.7 and you'll understand why you still hear them.http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/gen/3_3_1-24.pdf

I guess CASA is splitting hairs a bit, but technically correct in that at a non-towered aerodrome or ALA you are addressing only "Traffic", as there is no FIA. In a CTA, if the tower is not operating, the "All Stations" is addressing both Traffic and any Ground stations. As I understand it, the All Stations call would be given on the TIBA and or FIA frequencies unless specified differently for that location. "All Stations" is also used by ATC when addressing all listeners, such as for announcing availability of an amended weather forecast.

 

Thanks for drawing my attention this. While I had come across it before, I hadn't really registered the significance. So when I next fly to Albury (out of tower hours), I'll use "All Stations", but continue to use " Traffic" at non-towered ADs.

 

P.S. At Albury, out of tower hours, the CTA reverts to Class G and the Tower frequency becomes CTAF.

 

 

[ahlocks]

I think the confusion comes from IFR craft making the mandatory broadcasts as per section 5 and like monkey see monkey do, we parrot them thinking that it is correct procedure.

 

It was 'location, traffic" during my training and this is supported by AIP ENR1.1 sect 20.1.12 as you have quoted in post #32.

 

http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/enr/1_1_1-116.pdf

 

Splitting hairs yep. Does it make a difference? well..., we know that someone is out there and what their intentions are so does it really matter?

 

Cheers!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well I should have been more specific and referred to CTAF and CTAF ® where the vast majority of RA pilots operate then we wouldn't have got into this confusion.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Well I should have been more specific and referred to CTAF and CTAF ® where the vast majority of RA pilots operate then we wouldn't have got into this confusion.

But any discussion where I learn something is good, so no biggie. :-)

BTW, CTAF® is obsoleted as of 3 June 2010. Mandatory use of radio is no longer indicated in this manner, as it is implicit in the designation of the aerodrome as being Registered, Certified, Military or on a list CASA additionally specifies (which was a null list, last time I looked).

 

Ahlocks; I agree, whether All Stations or Traffic is called, is not a big issue to me, but confusing to students. I do however like to think I do the right thing myself, so it was a good discussion :-)

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

cficare - too many scotches doth not a clear post make!

 

I was trying to say that I would make a non-mandatory radio call when I beleive the situation suits - such as a busy weekend with many a/c in the same area, just to let people know what i'm doing. It doesnt hurt and it's free. But feel free to set me straight - I take on board any comments made by those with more experience than I.

 

 

[turboplanner]

SA - good for awareness about you, but you might kill someone back in the busy circuit because someone else couldn't get a warning out.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I had a fly around YMMB with the foreign students ,I take my hat off to the tower there, I couldn't understand the buggers,,,,,deta deta omo cesna dunwin qeest toch goo , followed this guy for an hour,

Hi Mat, My understanding of it, is that the school CFI has to say they are proficient, things might have changed though.Im with you well done to the ATC.(My partners nepthew is a ATC in Melbourne, i know what you mean.lol)

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Good point Turboplanner. Now the plot thickens!