Firewall Forward Costs

[winsor68]

I have read several threads on the reliability of several types of motor... I thought this question may be of interest.

 

What are the firewall forward costs/availability of the different Ra-Aus suitable powerplants... Just ball park figure and starting with the cheapest...?

 

I have no idea... anyone with real world figures... ?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Donald, Can't really answer your question accurately, although a new 912 100hp Rotax will run you about $22,000 at current cost, but if you buy it as part of the Savannah kit for instance it only costs 20,000.

 

Couldn't tell you what a jab costs but they could be cheaper.

 

However selecting ones aircraft engine is a huge investment in your future, both literally, and for your future flying quality.

 

I also understand the pressures of costs when it comes to aircraft, especially when you also have a family to consider.

 

My first choice and best recommendation would be to procure the most reliable engine you can, for the money you have.

 

Remember, the name of the game is reliable, safe, and regular flying. A 'cheap' engine isn't, if it's on the floor in pieces in 200 hours, and you haven't flown in six months !...............just my point of view from experience...................................................................................Maj...

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Look at the Corvair as an option. Flat 6 cylinder air cooled 100hp. Probably around the $7000 built depending on options.

 

 

Scotty

 

 

[Guest JRMobile]

Not sure about cost but link contains a list of engines

 

http://www.ultralightmarket.com/results.asp?view=Gruppe&Gruppe=8

 

 

[fly_tornado]

A modern alternative to VW/Corvair power: BMW R series twins.

 

You can source the engines from wreckers quiet easily, they make 30-40000 bikes a yearso there is no shortage of parts

 

costs vary as you can do a lot too these motors, entry price is around the 4000 mark.

 

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Tornado, Yes that does look like an interesting unit with fuel injection, alternator and reduction gearbox allowing a wide choice of prop types. Is that the same unit that some have been using in the bushcaddy STOL ?..

 

And additionally of course you get that long-proven BMW engineering and reliability, which has been rproven on the BMW motorbikes over many years................Maj...

 

 

[fly_tornado]

BMW have to get there product right if they are wanting to sell 30,000+ bikes a year. The BMW engine is a popular choice in the UK and the EU for many years in trikes/microlights as far back as the r90 days. Being internally oil cooled it doesn't suffer the same issues that air cooled engines do with heat shock cracking the block and burning valves.

 

This is a R1150 with a takeoff gearbox (old ultralight pilots will pick the rotax twin airbox).

 

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I want one !...........don't know what for !...but I want one...............................................................Maj...

 

 

[Yenn]

What is the reliability of the BMW in an aircraft? I know they have been used over the years, but they don't aeem to have csught on. Most riders of BMW bikes seem to me to be steady types, not those who would thrash the engine, which is what happens to an engine in a plane. Anyone got any real time experience.

 

Another motorcycle engine that has been used is the V Twin Yamaha.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

As part of my reseatrch into doing the BMW conversion I asked a lot of people about their conversions and apart from one guy there are glowing recommendations. The yank that had a bad r100 conversion did a dual sparkplug conversion and the plug blew out the side of the head. He complained about his engine vibrating and I am pretty sure instead of trying to fix it he just flew until his engine blew up...

 

I wouldn't go near any sort of cruiser engine in a plane as they are just rubbish engines designed to vibrate.

 

 

[Hildy]

The UL350iS is around $24,000 (http://www.ulpower.com/) (17,500 Euro)

that'd be plus import costs, though, right?

 

can you use a CS prop on these? they'd seem to be the answer to getting nice cruise and climb out of the same plane.

 

 

[eightyknots]

A modern alternative to VW/Corvair power: BMW R series twins.You can source the engines from wreckers quiet easily, they make 30-40000 bikes a yearso there is no shortage of parts

costs vary as you can do a lot too these motors, entry price is around the 4000 mark.

 

What is the kilowatt (horsepower) rating of these engines?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

there are variation on the BMW engines. R1100S is good for 100HP and is a high compression motor

 

the R1150RT/RS is good for 95 and has dual spark and is a lower compression engine.

 

R1100GS motors are good for 70 and are low compression motors, R1150GS is good for around 80

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Those are old model BMW's . There are now R1200's in two different states of tune. The most interesting is probably The motor from the R1200RT which is published as having a max torque of 120nm @ 6000 rpm or max power of 110hp @ 7750. Having worked on the earlier models since they came out I would be quite happy to run one at 6000rpm continuously for cruise and 7700 for a short time for take off, similar to the Rotax . Due to changes in VIC ROADS rule concerning written off vehicles , you should be able to buy a whole bike at auction (Fowles or Pickles ) for not very much at all.....

 

 

[fly_tornado]

the only thing going against the R1200 is that it is a canbus affair which will require you to replace the ECU, its a fantastic engine, the 2010 1200S motor is good for 128hp @ 8250, thanks mostly to those 52MM throttle bodies. replacing the ECU will be a bigghish job outside the skillset of your average home builder.

 

the 1150 and 1100S engines are conventional engines, they work straight out of the box, you can tune the mixture with resistors.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Mmmm, That'd be a bit exxy against the $22,000 for the latest 912 100hp which has all the goodies available and will take a CS prop...................................Maj...

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Corvair...lalala

 

 

[HEON]

The BMW engine would probably be good in aircraft as I have to disagree with Yenn and his statement that most riders of BMW bikes seem steady types.

 

As a member of Willoughby District Motorcycle Club in the '70's I attended most Castrol 6hr production races where Hatton and Blake did things on BMW's that were unbeleaveable...I think placing or winning every year from '73 to '78 except the year they were disqualified. Having owned three BMW's myself I know long times near the red line did not break them (ideal for aircraft), but did have a great effect on my licence point total!

 

The newer ones would be even better but not cheep. The Take Off TBM 11 and 12 (110/120hp)are 9,300 and 10,300 Euro according to "Leisure Aviation 2010-11".

 

 

[fly_tornado]

BMWs have been the mainstay of many police forces fleets and they load up an already heavy bike with a lot of extra weight and then flog them quiet mercilessly pursuing crims.

 

The Take off stuff is pretty nice gear. The technik stuff is also very well engineered but expensive.