What's involved in becoming an RA-Aus Ground Theory Instructor?

[sseeker]

Hi all,

 

I'm interested in the RA-Aus ground theory instructor endorsement. What's involved in obtaining this endorsement? I'm soon to start my CPL exams so by the end of those I should have quite a significant amount of knowledge under my belt. Are the CPL exams enough to obtain it? Surely there would be some kind of principles of instruction/classroom experience required? If so how do you go about getting it? I'm looking at becoming a flight instructor once I'm out of school (GA and RAA) so I think this would be an excellent start to the whole instruction process. I study aviation as a school subject and my friends sometimes come to me for a slightly easier explanation of methods and theories and they usually understand them by the time I'm finished, so I guess that's a start!

 

I understand that the operations manager must approve all ground instructors in writing. It doesn't really mention much about the requirements though. Have any of you got any experience with this and can lead me in the right direction? I understand it's quite a big responsibility for someone my age but I think I can handle it, I really enjoy helping my friends in aviation study towards exams and tests. I take the endorsement gives you the right teach an FTFs students the required knowledge to pass all of the RA-Aus theory exams? All the standard rules of belonging to an FTF still apply? So basically once you think the student is ready to sit the exam, you let them sit it and an FI signs them off?

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

 

 

[Hildy]

http://www.auf.asn.au/opsmanual/2-12.pdf

[sseeker]

I understand that the operations manager must approve all ground instructors in writing. It doesn't really mention much about the requirements though. Have any of you got any experience with this and can lead me in the right direction?

I wrote this late last night so this section doesn't really make much sense. "It doesn't really..." by it I meant the operations manual. I thought I'd already wrote operations manual but I'd actually wrote operations manager. My mistake.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Best thing to do would be ring Mick poole and ask him. How old are you?

 

 

[sseeker]

Good idea motz. Also, I'm 16.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[facthunter]

Please don't take this as barring you, seeker, but although I know of no one doing this job, I would imagine that someone with extensive knowledge and experience, in various aspects of aviation might be interested in doing it. Like a retired instructor ,Teacher, university lecturer in say Meteorology, or something like that. Someone who can no longer fly, and wants to do something connected to aviation.

 

A young guy would probably just do the instructor (flying ) pathway, but don't rush that. The minimum hours are just that. If you want to pass knowledge on you must first have the knowledge, and the skill to pass it on. The Principles and Method of Instruction, PMI should be treated seriously.

 

Keep talking to Motz.. Nev

 

 

[sseeker]

Hi facthunter,

 

Thanks for the reply. I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Although some of what you just said is the same as saying a newly qualified FI doesn't have the knowledge to pass onto a student (theory). The min requirement for an RAA instructors rating is a PPL exam, do you really think thats enough? You also need PPL theory minimum for this, which i think certainly isn't enough. The reason i asked about PMI is because i dont have any experience teaching which is obviously a set back.

 

I can understand and appreciate what youre saying but I'm just a little puzzled by some of those statements that ive outlined.

 

-Andrew

 

sent from my phone, sorry if the grammars crap.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I think your problem is finding a school to work in. Once you get over that hurdle the rest is easy

 

 

[facthunter]

A newly qualified FI operates under the direct supervision of the CFI. There are quite a few things that he is not permitted to do. Further experience and checks enable the (senior) SI grading.

 

Is the PPL enough? Consider that in GA, which we often compare ourselves to , the instructor (lowest grade) has a CPL and something like another 25 hours of specialised flying , above the CPL. There are 3 grades of instructor in GA. This is without considering endorsements like turbine, pressurisation, multi-engine. IFR.(The big ones)

 

No a bare PPL is not enough, but it is a pretty good start for U/L type flying, which should not be made any more complex than necessary, but nor should it be lacking in knowledge and handling to the extent that the pupil is unsafe in conditions he/she may encounter. Imagine how you would feel if a mishap occurred to one of your pupils that was due to the inadequacy of your instruction. This might sound a bit tough but that is the responsibility that you have in the game of flying. Also when you present yourself to your prospective pupils on the ground or in the air, they must have complete confidence in YOU. It will take a few years of instruction at least, and about 1,000 hours, before you will be a good instructor and that will depend on the quality and ability of the people who you work with/under. You need experience across all the types that RAAus encompass if you can get it. This goes back to confidence, yours and the students.

 

I know we have come a little way from the original enquiry, but I hope it helps. Nev

 

 

[sseeker]

Nev,

 

That's all well and true for flight instruction, and thanks for outling that. But I'm talking about theory instruction. CPL Theory is the 2nd highest grade of theory you can learn in aviation (1 down from ATPL), surely this is suffecient for this endorsement issue considering the ops manual says PPL theory minimum. PPL Theory certainly isn't enough for teaching theory to students. The question that puzzles me is what is recognized as an acceptable level of teaching experience? Cause we all know BAK, Air Law, Radio, MET etc.. But teaching it is obviously a totally different thing.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

 

 

[facthunter]

Do a PMI course. There is one for RAAus. I did the CASA approved one (4 or 5 days of lectures). There's more in this than you might think.

 

I used to be a Secondary school teacher so I thought it should be easy enough. Wrong!! They always manage to change everything (use different terms definitions etc). Had I gone in cold I would probably have failed. This is the one you need to run a GA flying school. so you don't ever have to do anymore in that direction if you do it. Nothing is hard if you do the preparation. Anything you do in GA will be credited to RAAus. (Doesn't work the other way around but SOME hours count. Handy if you are good on a whiteboard and can draw diagrams.

 

Now, you mention experience. What I have covered above is the qualification side of things . Experience... Regarding theory only, I have never seen anyone do this, from scratch. I know that the RAAus Manual talks of it. I don't know how many are on the books (if any) and what the demand is for them. That is why I mentioned the flying instructor aspect because , as far as I know, they handle all of the theory The ability to pass on information is independent of the material, although you will be more comfortable with material you like. Perhaps a personal development course at a TAFE where you deliver talks and presentations would be good. If you can handle groups you will find an individual much easier. Good skill to have anyhow..Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

sseeker.

 

As others have said, a good place to start would be doing a PMI. The test's you pass, PPL, CPL etc are not what instructing is about. You could have a PHD in aeronautical engineering, but that doesn't mean you can teach even the freshest student effects of controls. Instructing is all about being able to pass on information, and guiding a student as they learn. There is one thing I have come to understand, and that is that flying can't be taught.

 

It can only be learnt.

 

Might sound laughable, but think about it. I could spend 4 years in a briefing room with someone who has never flown before. At the end of those four years, the student may have a fantastic knowledge of aerodynamics etc, but he would not have the ability to fly the aircraft.

 

A good instructor, while needing a good solid knowledge base on all aspects of flying, above all else must have the ability to 'teach'. To pass on knowledge, to link those things learned in the classroom to whats happening in the air. To make sure that as the student 'learns', he or she understands. And thats the role of the instructor. You put anyone in an aeroplane for 40 hours, eventually they will learn how to get it around the track and back down again, but will they 'understand' how they got it around the track?

 

So, don't focus on what subjects you have passed, focus on becoming a teacher.;)

 

cheers

 

 

[sseeker]

The best way to do a PMI course would be to contact an RA-Aus school that does instructor training? Don't they generally run these types of things in groups?

 

-Andrew

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Andrew;

 

I agree with most of what has been said, particularly the last post by Motz.

 

In my experience good instructors (any subject area) ate born, not taught. Teaching is a skill. Unlike popular definition, I believe skills are inate and cannot be learned. Knowledge can be learned and that can be applied using the teaching skill. You can learn about the technical aspect of teaching. You can observe this among different teachers. Some ate much better than others.

 

Motivation is another dimension. True teachers aren't doing it just as a "profession" but because their Passion is seeing the development of their students. They adapt both temperament and approach to best suit the learning style needed by that student.

 

Do you fit the bill? You are probably too inexperienced to know for sure, but you said that you had helped some of your peers to understand concepts. Look at whether you enjoyed doing that because they made progress or because you demonstrated greater understanding. I don't need to know. This is an introspection.

 

If your motivations ate correct and you have that passion to help others, then by all means start the journey and see how it plays out. As has been said about lotteries, you will never know if you don't give it a go.

 

Ha ING said all that, I cannot imagine theory divorced from practise. You need to relate the student's performance in the air, to the theory, interactively.

 

Just teaching someone to pass a test, does them no favour and contributes to creation of poor pilots.

 

 

[loro]

Andrew,

 

I have been a professional ground instructor for many years and although I admire your enthusiasm and want to encourage your desire to become a ground instructor I wish to offer the following advice for you to consider.

 

I believe that a ground instructor should hold as an absolute minimum, the same licence/certificate that he or she is teaching e.g. if you are teaching a RA-Aus syllabus you should hold a RA-Aus Certificate, there are exceptions for subject matter specialists’ such as a Meteorologist teaching meteorology, Aeronautical Engineers teaching structures, Navigators teaching navigation etc. If the ground instructor has the same (or higher) licence/certificate their instruction will be enriched by practical knowledge rather than just simply repeating what they have read or heard. In other words I don’t believe that the ground instructor endorsement is intended or should be used as a first step on the way to a flight instructor role.

 

It seems that you enjoy informal instruction and your plans to complete the CPL exams are sound but I recommend that you gather some practical experience to couple with your academic achievements before you head off to the classroom. There are a number of organizations that will help you gain a formal teaching qualification such as train the trainer or Principles and Methods of Instruction (PMI) but this can be left until you gain that licence/certificate and some practical experience.

 

My best wishes for the future.

 

 

[sseeker]

Loro,

 

Thanks for replying! Glad there's someone on here who actually holds the endorsement and does it for real. I hold the RA-Aus certificate with around 80hrs. While it's not a lot, it's certainly a start to some practical experience.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[facthunter]

Seeker. responding to your post #14. The RAAus does do these courses (PMI). They, as most similar courses ,would be done in up to about 10 persons in groups. Frankly, I don't think they are good enough. The CASA approved exam has standing. I would recommend it as the best way to go. That is hardly going to make you a teacher. (2 days). Let's get real here. School teachers have a Dip Ed. plus a degree or Diploma in their specialty. Not ALL of them are good teachers.

 

With regard to David H's contribution. Yes really good instructors ( teachers) do stand out. Just how they become good may be considered.. Motivation to teach should be genuine, not just enjoying the so called "status". Teaching is a skill or perhaps an art. First of all you have to like doing it. If you don't you are not fair to your students. You need patience, and the ability to assess the effectiveness of YOUR instruction

 

Lots of instructors do it just to get hours up to go into Airlines. That is as it always was. Some stay in the game, (good on them) but they don't get well paid.. A really experienced instructor properly motivated could help massively in steering the junior instructors along the correct path, so in this respect, I have to slightly disagree (a rare thing) with what David said. Training counts.

 

An apprentice working with Leonardo da Vinci would end up being a better artist than otherwise. The standard of your training will play a big part in how well you will train others, same as the ab initio flying training wil be the only ab-initio training you ever do. You can add bits on to the house but the foundations are built once, at the beginning. If they're not right, then it is hard to correct them later on..Nev

 

 

[ahlocks]

.. Glad there's someone on here who actually holds the endorsement and does it for real.

Motz? Nev?? Are you pair just trickin' and not teaching theory for real??

 

 

[facthunter]

Well I was wondering if it was a case of getting someone to agree with you. We ALL like that I suppose. I've got four kids who never seem to listen to me. Sometimes I overhear them talking to their mates and (Just occasionally something gets across) though I could be wrong there. jeez, I've re-read this . It's NOT a put-down No really . No...Nev

 

 

[sseeker]

No that's not what I meant... I meant someone who has some knowledge of the endorsement, its requirements and how I should go about gaining it! I wasn't saying (and sorry if it came across like that) that Motz and Nev aren't teaching properly or don't know how to teach properly. You guys said it yourself, you don't really know what's involved with the endorsement, so I was happy that someone came along that actually holds it.

 

I appreciate the advice and yes I'm certainly listening to it! Also, not all teachers hold a B. Education, there are some teachers at my school that don't hold that, they still teach, and they're quite good it at. I really do like aviation, I've put a shit load of effort into getting what I have now and I'm not even half way to where I wanna go. I do enjoy teaching others and I asked myself the question David told me to ask myself and I got quite a positive answer (yeah I know you said you didn't wanna know lol). Everyone has to start somewhere. I've emailed an RAA school with instructor training permission, the only one in WA that is. I did this before Nev suggested I do the GA course. I also suspect that the GA course may have prerequisites that I don't have i.e hold the CPL minimum before attending any of the instruction courses. I've spoken to the CFI at the Royal Aero Club and he was very supportive of converting my RAA licence to a GFPT so he may feel the same way if I explain what I'm trying to achieve with the theory instructor permit. (If it's not a CASA requirement that is.)

 

-Andrew

 

 

[facthunter]

Thanks Andrew. You appear to have persistence and that is important. Stick up for yourself.. My orientation is long term, so that is where I'm concentrating. All long journeys start with a first step, and you made that a while ago. Too many courses approach the subject with a pass being the main aim. That is so wrong, especially in aviation which to me is one of the most demanding of all skills. Understanding is better than pass marks. You can't bullsh*t your way through the sky and get away with it for long, again I'm being very general here and not refering to you. Listen to Andy (Motz) and Ultralights (Rob). They've navigated them selves along the road in this area, and drop a few pearls of wisdom now and again. and there's others too on this forum, who are very helpful. I'll shut up now. Good luck .Nev

 

 

[loro]

Andrew,

 

Since you have already accumulated 80 hours flight experience I have revised my advice which is once again forwarded for your consideration.

 

The RA-Aus Operations Manual requires Flight Instructor candidates to have accumulated not less than 75 hours PIC with passenger, cross country and radio endorsements before undertaking the in-flight examination. Therefore, I consider that should also be sufficient for a ground instructor applicant who wishes to teach a RA-Aus theory syllabus.

 

When you have passed the PPL/CPL Aeronautical Knowledge Examinations that will take care of the aeronautical knowledge requirement.

 

As discussed, the PMI course can be undertaken at numerous organizations.

 

Lastly and most importantly I recommend that you align yourself with a RA-Aus FTF and obtain direct guidance and supervision from its CFI. This supervision can become in-direct as you gain experience.

 

Although the Operations Manual doesn’t specifically mention it I’m sure that if the CFI would indicate his or her role in your formal application to the Operations Manager I’m confident it would be successful.

 

Although I’m not in a position to advise what the Operations Manager will require before he appoints you as a ground instructor, he may require you to demonstrate your competency by giving a lecture to a designated person. In that case make sure you have a lesson plan, follow the syllabus and practise, practise, practise with feedback from the CFI beforehand.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[ahlocks]

....I appreciate the advice and yes I'm certainly listening to it!

 

 

[turboplanner]

I used to be a Secondary school teacher so I thought it should be easy enough.

Now I know why I had such a sore behind, and the hosties all seemed to have huge whites to their eyes, from all those T Jet landings coming home to Melbourne!

 

 

[nong]

Hmm Mr sseeker....

 

Do you realise that you DONT NEED RAAus approval to teach theory. There is no requirement other than your expressed desire to obtain RAAus approval.

 

Nong