Report an RA-Aus pilot

[DarkSarcasm]

Hi all,

 

Is there anywhere I can report an RA-Aus pilot for bad airmanship? I had a look at the RA-Aus website and can't find anything, is there anywhere online to do it? Or should I email someone at RA-Aus?

 

Cheers

 

 

[facthunter]

Any unsafe or illegal act concerning an aircraft, should be reported to the authorities. I would suggest that you first contact and take advice from Mick Poole if it relates to an RAAus aircraft. It will be covered by CASR's. Nev

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

What Facthunter has said has been published in the magazine several times. Give Mick Poole a call. If it was just bad airmanship in terms of bad manners, then maybe a tap on the shoulder will do, but if it was a dangerous act, then an incident report is probably required. Mick will provide the needed advice, and follow-up action if needed.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Thanks for your replies, I'll email Mick today.

 

 

[Hongie]

sorry! i didnt mean to be rude to you darky!

 

 

[Powerin]

We always wondered what would happen if we crossed Darks in the air Hongie....now you know!

 

 

[winsor68]

And you think the Eagle came out the worse for wear...

 

 

[farri]

Who determines and judges airmanship!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Regulations are writen!!!!!!

 

Frank.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The person she reports it to. He/She will either proceed on a regulation or not.

 

 

[winsor68]

If its illegal... report it to the police. That is what they are there for.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

All jokes aside, I wouldn't report someone unless I felt I had a good reason. I am not becoming a 'holier than thou' GA pilot. If a GA pilot had done the same thing I would've taken the same action.

 

I have emailed a report to CASA and RA-Aus and they can deal with it as they see fit. They may decide not to pursue it, however I felt that it needed reporting.

 

 

[farri]

Ok so we may be saving someones life,but where do we draw the line?

 

Imagine every one of us reporting some one,every time we believe it wasn`t good airmanship!!!

 

I reckon those responsible for investigating the matter would soon have had enough of it!!!

 

Frank.

 

Not saying DS didn`t have a legitimate reason!!!

 

 

[turboplanner]

As far as I can remember this is the only request for information we've had on here - I might be wrong by one or two, but given we have 9600 members that's an indication that:

 

(a) Our behaviour is very responsible in general

 

(b) We don't have an avalanche of vexatious reporting happening

 

Going back to BlackRod's post the "dobbing in" phrase which is often trotted out to allow wrongdoing to continue has its origins in our convict past where we never gave the authorities an inch where the behaviour of fellow convicts was involved.

 

This link is a terrible story of people who knew things were badly wrong but failed to do something in time. The full story contains more information of the people who tried to get something done but were laughed at, derided and manipulated by the club members who owned the dam. Couldn't find it quickly but the Wiki story is stark enough.

 

Ironically the people who fail to report danger never feel responsible when someone is eventually injured or killed

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Fork_Fishing_and_Hunting_Club

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

While I agree that not every minor thing should be reported, I do not believe that bad airmanship should be allowed to continue just because nobody could be ars*d to do anything about it. I think it's better to email the appropriate authorities and let them decide whether it is worth pursuing than just washing your hands of it. It's entirely possible that CASA/RA-Aus will take one look at my email and decide it's not worth looking into, but I'm glad I put it out there.

 

And I bet there's some people reading this who probably think I'm just a fairly newly minted PPL drunk with power, but I'm not, I'm just trying to be a safe pilot and do my bit to keep other aviators, and pax, safe as well.

 

 

[Bandit12]

Obviously Ms Dark hasn't posted details and perhaps wth good reason. It is a sad fact that some people do our hobby/passion/profession/career no favours at all, and the results usually cost us all in the end. I don't know Darky in person, but I would be confdent that she would approach the individual personally if it was appropriate or possible. I can't say I have ever met many pilots who would report another pilot to the authorities without good reason, regardless of the class of license they hold.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Darky;

 

The description of your grievance and response to it don't seem proportional. The grievance is described as "bad airmanship", not unlawful behaviour, and you have also indicated that it is a matter you feel may be "not worth looking into". On that basis you say you have emailed reports to both RAA and CASA, with no indication that the RAA Operations Manager, when consulted, provided that advice, or that you considered his advice to be an inadequate response.

 

It just seems strange.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

I have not posted details to preserve anonimity of the parties involved.

 

If possible, I would have spoken to the pilot on the ground, but it's a bit difficult to do so when he's flying. I would have preferred this approach and would have done so if it were possible.

 

Perhaps the response isn't proportional, but I do not see why it has incited this much discussion. If it is truly not worth looking into then the authorities will not do so, that is up to them. I do NOT understand why people appear to be so reluctant to actually stand up and say 'I felt that what that pilot did was unsafe'. I described it as bad airmanship yes, because I believe that is part of it and did not want to get into discussion as to what the situation actually was. In short, the other pilot's radio calls were unprofessional and, by extension, unsafe and would be used by those 'holier than thou' GA pilots (I do not include all GA pilots in this, obviously) as an excellent example of how RA pilots are supposedly not trained to the same standards as GA (I am not a member of this camp, holding both kinds of licences).

 

I will not apologise for doing something I felt was right and taking a stand against something that I felt was unprofessional and, by extension, unsafe. I do not want to be the person who thinks 'oh well, it'll be right' only to find out later that that pilot was involved in a prang.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Don't worry about explaining Darky, No one was able to come up with the procedure anyway.

 

 

[farri]

DS, In my opinion, you`re comment, ( I do NOT understand why people appear to be so reluctant to actually stand up and say 'I felt that what that pilot did was unsafe' ), is unfair and incorrect!!!

 

Which people are you talking about?........................Surely you`re not sugesting that there is no one who would report a dangerous and/or illegal operation?

 

Frank.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

DS, In my opinion, you`re comment, ( I do NOT understand why people appear to be so reluctant to actually stand up and say 'I felt that what that pilot did was unsafe' ), is unfair and incorrect!!!Which people are you talking about?........................Surely you`re not sugesting that there is no one who would report a dangerous and/or illegal operation?

I read some of the replies to this thread as stating that only illegal ops should be reported. That, to me, implied that some people would not report something that they felt was unsafe unless it was also an illegal operation. Apologies if I misconstrued the posts, sometimes things come out in text differently to how they were intended.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...No one was able to come up with the procedure anyway.

With respect, I refer you to Posts #2 and #3.

The procedure for matters of this nature have been published in the magazine on more than one occasion (sorry, I can't reference an issue date). It is as stated, to contact Mick Poole (where you cannot discuss with the pilot concerned, or that action is not fruitful, or the seriousness is greater) and he will determine whether he just contacts the pilot concerned to give them some 'advice' or whether stronger action is required.

 

The RAA Ops Manual Section 2.14 endows the Operations Manager with the power of determination of punitive action and the authority to suspend or vary a member's Certificate or Endorsement. Cancellation is by the Board, based on his recommendation. The section also deals with the delayed activation of a penalty and the appeals process.

 

While the process for reporting isn't spelled out in the Manual, it is implicitly to report a matter to the Operations Manager, as the office responsible for assessment and action.

 

Section 4.08 of the RAA Manual deals with Incident and Accident reporting, both of which are to the ATSB within 48 hours, with notification and copies to RAA under specific criteria. The details to include in the report are also specified.

 

Based on the description of "airmanship", IMHO, the appropriate course of action would be to call Mick Poole and take his advice on how to proceed. If it is determined to be an Incident, then the ATSB need to be notified, so the clock is ticking.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Good on you Darky, for standing up for what you believe is right. I've been involved in a number of fatal / serious injury accident investigations where the people around me mumbled things like "we knew this was going to happen" but didn't do anything about it. Good mate of mine who was always pushing the envelope with regards to legality, aircraft performance and his own ability, already with his wings clipped by CASA was preparing to depart, I remonstrated with him regarding what he was going to do, and one passenger/friend decided to stay behind. He ended up killing himself and his passenger in someone else's plane on that flight and insurance refused to pay out. Another guy was reported by residents for swooping and knocking over TV aerials, landing on roads and generally making a menace of himself around town - the local pilots (including me) didn't make the call - but someone did and Middo came out to speak to him and point out the penalties for unlicenced & unregistered shenanigans. This guy had "taught" another club member how to do low level aeros in his Bantam. His father saw what he was doing and read him the riot act, but bouyed by misplaced confidence in his "tutor" he promptly went out and did more, crashed, broke nearly every bone in his body, wrote off the plane and was left with the loan, mortgage, no means of working, no insurance, a farm he couldn't work and a young family with no income. There was another guy "teaching" IFR even though he wasn't qualified in IFR and one of his "students" ended up killing himself on his first real IFR flight. In hindsight we should have done something earlier.

 

There are some people you can't save, but by standing up to say "this is not acceptable" or "this could be improved" you may save someone else a good deal of heart ache. Unfortunately our society tends to applaud risk takers and rouges. Then others less skilled or lucky try to emulate them. A very good book, if you can still find it, is Darker Shades of Blue - The Rogue Pilot by Tony Kern published by McGraw-Hill 1999. He investigates the reasons why these undisciplined pilots put their own egos above all else and become a danger to us - and how to deal with them. He covers a wide number of aviation accidents - it is a good read.

 

Sue

 

 

[turboplanner]

With respect, I refer you to Posts #2 and #3.

"Contact Mick Poole" isn't a procedure

 

Section 4.08 is a good start

 

We are flying in CASA airspace subject to CASA Air Navigation Orders, so if we went to Mick and Mick went to ATSB that would be heresay, and we don't want that around here.

 

I seem to remember Incident Reports were mandatory.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Good job darky.. Safety culture is an in-house thing. If we don't frown upon this sort of thing, we are encouraging it.

 

 

[Spin]

Obviously we are flying blind here because DS hasn't given us chapter and verse of her concerns, however reading from the beginning it seems she is objecting to a pilot's radio procedure, which she believed was unprofessional - and by extension unsafe(?). I have to say that if I'm reading this right, a formal report to CASA and RA-Aus is over the top. Sue's examples of actual dangerous behaviour are of a completely different magnitude to what I perceive DS to be complaining about and the same considerations do not apply. If it weren't possible to have a quiet word with the pilot, or the CFI or the club safety officer, if one exists, then the suggested call to Mick Poole would be the way to go i.m.o.