Design a plane?

[Guest Decca]

More input

 

Ian it's over a month since the last post to this thread, & I've just caught up with it (being new), but I hope the interest is still there.

 

I don't think this is "radical" but I've always thought cockpit space, out of necessity (streamlining, except for a tandem) is claustraphobic.

 

Has anyone ever thought of making the cockpit the centre section of the wing, large enough to carry 2 in roomy style, in the same cross-section shape as the wing so that it is actually producing usable lift? Instead of being the usual, though often streamlined, drag-creating blob.

 

Don't laugh, think about it. It would fit in with any design including your basic requirements.

 

Decca.

 

 

[Yenn]

Decca.

 

Yes a lifting wing has been designed, and I believe there is one being built in Brisbane at the moment. I haven't kept in touch with the builder, but it is rather like the Facetmobile.

 

Flying wings seem to have problems with longitudinal control which negates what appears to be a great trade off between lift and drag.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Can't think of it's name but there is a plane where the windscreen and top body line replicate and carry's through the wing section. The fuselage does not taper in top view but remains full width to the tail plane thus creating a very large lifting surface.

 

 

[Guest Teenie2]

Have a look at the Teenie2 or minicoupe http://www.theminicoupe.com/ I reckon you could build a teenie without eng or inst for about $3000 or less.

 

 

[Yenn]

I was wrong about the lifting wing being built in Brisbane. I found out today that Daniel who is the designer builder has built a small model which performed well and is now building a quarter scale model for further testing. Pressure of running a business seems to be slowing him down a bit but I am sure he will eventually build a full size plane.

 

 

[Ultralights]

Minicoupe looks good! 2 tails is a must.....

 

then again, i am bias..

 

 

[Guest Prometheus]

Prometheus that is a good starting point. It is just about what I would go for myself. How about making a start, just the basics?

I wouldn't know where to start! :;)2:

 

I guess it would have to be Aluminium Cladding onto maybe a wooden frame?

 

Then there's the wings??? hmmmm all too hard methinks. :;)6:

 

I'd love to do it though. Better still have enough money to pay someone to do it for me!

 

 

[jimecho1]

in was thinking a single seat, fully encolsed weight shift aircraft... but using a conventional stick control... pull back to climb, left stick to roll left etc etc..

As a raw beginner with an hour on a trike and two or three hours in a three-axis, I've often wondered about adding a few cables and pulleys to allow a trike to controlled by means of a stick which moves and acts in the way 3-axis pilots have become accustomed to.

 

There's a fully-enclosed trike pod on the market already and it seems to me that it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to design a system.

 

Listening to the horror stories of 3-axis pilots pulling back on the bar to flare for landing has made me reluctant to fly both types of aircraft, so I've plumped for the 3-axis. But trikes are quite wonderful machines and I'd REALLY like to fly them some time in the future.

 

Jim

 

 

[Yenn]

I had a trial intro flight on a trike years ago and didn't find any problem with the controls. It seemed to me that the bar being high and directly coupled to the wing it was obvious what to do. Having said that it was only about 45 mins of flying and I didn't do the landing. Good fun though.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Legal Eagle

 

Yenn, view this video. Looks very simple and a fun plane as well. Is this the sort of thing you're after?

 

 

Cheers, Doug

 

 

[Ultralights]

you chop em in half, and they still sound like a Dak Dak! must say though, the rear fuse section behind the wing immediately reminded me of a Lightwing!

 

looks like it would be fun and cheap to build. wonder how it would go with a 503 or bigger in the nose?

 

 

[Yenn]

I started this section to see what interest there was in design, and so far it has been driven by the members and i have been remiss in not following it up.

 

My personal preference is for a low wing occasional 2 seater, that is to take passengers sometimes or to remove the seat and replace it with fuel and baggage capacity for long flights as a single seater, and I am very slowly working on this.

 

I was pleased to see Richard Faint won the Most innovative Design at Narromine. Wonder if he will sell the plans

 

 

[crazy diamond]

Just to keep the thread "alive and kicking" I am also looking at possible designs. Does anyone know of any pc programs you could plug in the designs and computer generate some sorts of data?? Despite actually watching Ron Bertram of the AOPA go in in a Lancair I'd love to look at smaller slightly less twitchy versions of Lancair style a/c...

 

 

[Guest micgrace]

Hi

 

You would have to get CAD software ($3,500, ouch) (If someone has an older version, say, 2000 I'm interested) and download the addons. Failing that, you could purchase a light plane designers manual from Aircraft Spruce. Pretty heavy going in the flight/structural loads areas, but very useful.

 

Micgrace

 

Micgrace

 

 

[Guest disperse]

enclosed weight shift with retractables.......

 

i think this will work......should be a photo....it's called the "escape pod"

 

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I'm not into weight shift but I quite like it. Just got to clean it up a bit by getting rid of the 'king post and wires'. Neat.

 

 

[crazy diamond]

Micgrace I actually work for the Australian Autodesk Distributor so box one is ticked, problem is I don't actually use it or have enough knowledge to use it properly without engaging in a full blown design course, which would probably be the best thing to do.

 

 

[Guest Jokerman]

First up great discussion, thanks Yenn. Only trouble is I just discovered it.

 

So to Brentc u were correct, the jet that flew over Clifton earlier this year is a 75% scale Grumman F9F-2 VH-JLG by John Gross. It is powered by a GE T58-8F and is based at Kingaroy though John lives in Brissie. A very nice aircraft indeed and love the motif on the tailplane.

 

To Pylon500, I too am interested in scale military aircraft. I was interested in your list of Zero, Hurricane and Harvard. Perhaps instead of the Zero, as there are a few of them around, why not a fixed u/c aircraft like a Nate? Also instead of a Harvard I'd be interested in a Wirraway! Very close to the Harvrad to allow a builder to end up with either one and for us the Wirraway would find more appeal. Could end up painting it in P/O Archer's plane and could use a Rotec radial in it.

 

Also what scale would u use? As already mentioned one doesn't want to make it too "scaled down". Would u consider something in the 75-80% realm? What would be the smallest scale u would consider? i had thought of 70% but I'm thinking more like 75% these days.

 

Perhaps there should be a Design Group forum?

 

Keep the discussion going...

 

 

[Yenn]

Jokerman, your idea of a design forum is good, maybe we could use this one. I have given up on the original idea, which was an attempt to get a load of input from others, I didn't make my intentions clear enough.

 

A friend of mine is looking at warbirds and considering a plans built type. I am currently looking at designing a replica Boeing Stearman, 2 seat, Rotec engine and at the moment I havn't got past getting the basic dimensions of the real thing.

 

 

[Blackhawk]

MID ENGINE DESIGN

 

Here is our design that we will be puting into production as a kit.

 

All composite Mid engined tractor with fixed landing gear, 2 seat side by side, of 544kg MTOW and powered by a 100hp 'DIESEL' engine.

 

(All I can reveal about this engine at the moment is; it weighs less than 60kg in full flying configuration and will be available to the public some time in 2008. It has already been tested and is about to go into full production).

 

The Magnum will cruise at 133kts and have a stall of 41kts and a range of 1000km.

 

We are looking for funding for this project, so if any one is at all interested, dont hesitate to contact me.

 

 

 

[crazy diamond]

blackhawk,

 

She looks the good but whats she gonna cost?!!

 

 

[Blackhawk]

MID ENGINE DESIGN

 

We want to keep the kit price to under $45,000 Aus.

 

The rest of the required equipement: engine (about the same cost as a Rotax 914 or a little bit more, but will be competetive for what you get), instruments, and general construction materials which will not be available with the kit should be around $30,000.

 

 

[Guest Jokerman]

A friend of mine is looking at warbirds and considering a plans built type. I am currently looking at designing a replica Boeing Stearman, 2 seat, Rotec engine and at the moment I havn't got past getting the basic dimensions of the real thing.

Do u have any thoughts on what scale size of the Stearman? That is, 70% or 75%?

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Hi Guys,

 

It's great to see this topics still going. I've stated elsewhere that my dream machine would be a scaled down Westland Wyvern so I've just done a quick check to see what percentage scale I'd use. The original has a wing span of 44 feet but more important is the cockpit width. The fuselage is about 4.8 feet but the actual canopy bubble is only 2.0 feet. Now to scale down and still get my 1'8" shoulders in without resorting to having drop-down panels aka Spitfire, I need to be around 83% scale. This would give about a 36.5 foot wing span. Hmmm, still pretty big.

 

Solution: Don't scale everything. Bring overall proportions to say 70% but accept an oversize canopy. This would give me a w/s of roughly 30.8ft, a track of 10.4ft and a fuselage of 3.4ft wide. This sound more realistic, but I've just thought of another problem. My garage opening is only 8' 10" wide........... There's gotta be an answer somewhere, and no, I'm not pulling the garage down.

 

 

[Yenn]

I havn't done anything on the Stearman for a while bbut 75% is about right I would think. I hope to have a look at some when I go to Britain next month, anyway it is a long term project and will probably never get built.

 

Looking at photos it appears that the original has a rectangular framed fuse with multiple shaping tubes to give it shape.