One thing I've learned about aviation...

[.Evan.]

Whenever you actually do that perfect 'greaser' landing, no one is watching!

 

 

 

[foxy]

hahahaha...that...and you can never make another greaser while they are watching!!!

 

 

[.Evan.]

hahahaha...that...and you can never make another greaser while they are watching!!!

Yes!!! That is also very true (for me at least!)

 

 

[Bryon]

And bouncers are normal when anyone is watching...........

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

And bouncers are normal when anyone is watching...........

Or particularly, when everyone is watching!

 

 

[Guest Pioneer200]

I had a mate ask me the other day whether 3 good bounces on landing equate to our regulations of doing 3 take off and landings every 90 days!!!!!!! LOL:oh yeah:

 

 

[Tomo]

Know the feeling!

 

 

[facthunter]

Do it on video and throw out the bad ones. If you are really bad you could get a fill-in pilot who can fly and paste a cutout image of yourself in the side window.

 

Landing on the spot is when the arrivals become super ordinary.

 

Anyhow landings are only one part of flying a plane. Consistently doing FAQ arrivals that are controlled is better than fluking good ones when you feel good, or the gods are with you, (squeekers, like a cat pissing on glass) and then doing a shambles of a semi controlled crash at other times.

 

The way I like to teach them to students, is to fly level with the ground so that the grass brushing the wheel spins it up to speed and then lower the plane gently the last 1/2 inch, with the stall warning blowing. Once they get the basics they can polish it up later. Nev

 

 

[.Evan.]

Do it on video and throw out the bad ones. If you are really bad you could get a fill-in pilot who can fly and paste a cutout image of yourself in the side window.

Hehe... Yep! Been doing that.

 

Anyhow landings are only one part of flying a plane. Consistently doing FAQ arrivals that are controlled is better than fluking good ones when you feel good, or the gods are with you, (squeekers, like a cat pissing on glass) and then doing a shambles of a semi controlled crash at other times.

I'm trying to be as consistent as possible. I'm told that 'no two landings are the same', but I'm attempting to make the touchdowns as similar as I can each time.

 

The way I like to teach them to students, is to fly level with the ground so that the grass brushing the wheel spins it up to speed and then lower the plane gently the last 1/2 inch, with the stall warning blowing. Once they get the basics they can polish it up later. Nev

That sounds awesome, Nev. All I need is a grass strip! :thumb_up:

 

I'll give it a try one day when I get to fly from a true grass runway.

 

 

[Tomo]

then lower the plane gently the last 1/2 inch

Ahh! That explains the problem... I was leveling out at an inch!

 

 

[sfGnome]

Depends on how knowledgeable the audience is. On the flight down to Natfly, my landing at Temora was pretty ordinary, so I was a bit surprised when my wife commented "gee, that was a good one". (This is all the more surprising because she'd be happy to go flying any day if only she didn't have to land... ). Anyhow, on the return home I pulled off the absolutely best crosswind landing of my short flying career. Beautifully controlled, single wheel, light, straight. Perfect.

 

Her comment? "Bit rough!" :hittinghead:

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

.

 

 

[facthunter]

The PROPORTIONAL effect of weight change with load carried is very large with aircraft that have AUW 's around 540 kg's. If you have a lightweight pilot and not much fuel, you could weigh 370Kgs. That is 170 Kgs approx lighter than at max landing weight. The aircraft behaves differently and , at the higher weight, MUST have a higher stall speed. You have to allow for this the same as you should allow a margin for gusts/ or windshear.

 

The same applies to aircraft that are equipped with rear seats, which are often well behind the Cof G. If they are not occuppied, you need more back stick to hold the nose up, when flaring to land. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

in tassie the grass lies parellal to the ground due to the wind.......

In your area, landing on Tasmania would be fine CFI

 

 

[.Evan.]

The same applies to aircraft that are equipped with rear seats, which are often well behind the Cof G. If they are not occuppied, you need more back stick to hold the nose up, when flaring to land.

One day I'll fly a four seater! One day!

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Nev, Im sure you meant to say the stall speed MUST be lower in the example you described.

 

Cheers

 

 

[.Evan.]

Nev, Im sure you meant to say the stall speed MUST be lower in the example you described.

That's what I would have thought, too...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Was it Chuck Yeager who said "the quality of your landings show just how good a pilot you are" (or words to that effect ??)

 

I generally manage to pull off very passable ones in the Lightwing, and I've been doing some nice squeakers lately landing at Shute early Monday mornings...but as you say, nobody ever sees the good ones.

 

You must always be ready for that doosey one ever now and then though !...regardless of how much experience you have !!!...

 

Recently I loaded a young ringer for a sunset flight out on a Western station. He had been dropping the hint seriously for about two days, and I could see that he wanted more than just a joy ride. I figured there was a future pilot in this guy, and I went all out to do my best to hook him.

 

You know, smooth take off, talking through it all the way, good demonstration of aircraft capabilities and basic flight control. Too easy, the hook was sunk all the way to the bone !.

 

Then came the landing.

 

Normal line up on the very short station home strip, with a regulation circut all the way, talking him through it of course. Your not wasting your breath on these country folk, they do listen.

 

I had landed the Lightwing on this marginal strip probabily six times before, solo and two-up with the station owner. I had done two solo landings not more than an hour before. Basically you needed to be on by a certain point to get pulled up ok...or go around for another turn.

 

Everything seemed fine before the fence...a little fast perhaps...power off...slow for the touch down. Suddenly I'm falling out of the sky for the last 15 feet !..Too late I'm commited for the touchdown...full flare and we hit pretty hard and bounce. Bloody massive sink right at the end..too late to respond. Bounces are fairly rare in the Lightwing with flaps..........throttle goes to fullnoise as I pick it off the bounce, and crawl out for a go around, the only real safe option, as this is not a strip to go bouncing down ! Cowboy is now not so impressed anymore, and having instant second thoughts about his future directions in aviation !.

 

I fly another circut and do my best to explain to him that occasionally you get a landing like that, and what we did was the best action. It's really hard to look super experienced and cool when you've just really Fxxxxx up a landing !!..

 

The next landing is copybook normal, and pretty much like all my previous ones.

 

I still reckon there's a good 50/50 chance I hooked him regardless....time will tell.......Watch for that sink...it raises it's ugly head now and then, and usually when you least expect it !..............................Maj...

 

 

[facthunter]

To the two observant chaps, who noted the speed/weight relationship. Yes it doesn't READ right. I thought it did, but it doesn't. I meant the heavier weight has the higher stall speed, ( as it always will). and it ( the weight) is significant as a percentage. ( I have now edited it)..

 

Lots of pilots say "I know the stall speed of my aeroplane..It is X knots'. Well it is different every time your weight changes. Larger aircraft calculate an approach speed for every landing based on take off weight minus actual fuel burn. While this is not quite a requirement for smaller aircraft,, the principle is there. If you allow a few knots extra when your plane is heavy, you won't get it falling out of the sky as much when you flare. Conversely if you are very light take a few off and you won't float all the way down the strip. The actual quoted stall speed is at max weight and with the most adverse CofG position which could be encountered. (Nose heavy). The Cof G position will affect the feel of the plane too..Nev

 

 

[.Evan.]

To the two observant chaps, who noted the speed/weight relationship. Yes it doesn't READ right. I thought it did, but it doesn't. I meant the heavier weight has the higher stall speed, ( as it always will). and it ( the weight) is significant as a percentage. ( I have now edited it)..

Sorry Nev, didn't want to be a smarty-pants! I just wanted to make sure I understood it correctly.

 

If you allow a few knots extra when your plane is heavy, you won't get it falling out of the sky as much when you flare. Conversely if you are very light take a few off and you won't float all the way down the strip.

I'm quite used to very little float at the best of times in the J160 with it's stubby little wings. Although I haven't yet compared it to anything else, I'm told regularly that when I finally move to the J230 or the J170 to be prepared for a lot of float.

 

Watch for that sink...it raises it's ugly head now and then, and usually when you least expect it !..............................Maj...

Yep! As someone that was quite ground-shy during my training, I certainly will!

 

Don't worry, I rekon you've sewn some powerful seeds regardless, Maj! I wish I was taken for a TIF when I was a teenager!

 

 

[facthunter]

Good on you Maj for that account. We can all do them. The large sink must be windshear or a patch of warm air. Alice Springs was a place this seemed to happen frequently. You would have a nice stabilised approach, then over the threshold she would just fall out of the sky at times. What a bugger when you are trying to demonstrate so carefully, with your fella..

 

After I had been flying a plane for years which was VERY heavy on the controls, (A Douglas DC-4) I hired a C-182 out of Cessnock to take a relative of mine to Mudgee. Therewas a ditch that had been dug across the strip ( It was NOTAMED) and When I came back I was concentrating on making sure that I had crossed it and I ended up doing a very untidy bit of porpoising (Nosewheel and mainwheels) at the far end of the strip. Nothing fell off, but it was a bit ordinary.

 

Taxy back in ,and the office Lass, who had been working in the same capacity at Rutherford, where I had been previously, said, " it takes years of practice to do a landing like THAT Nev!.. I felt about 2" tall......But it was a good comment...Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

All good fun. Yes it was a bit of that funny air you get sometimes right before sunset. There may even had been a slight windshift. In retrosect there was no windsock there either, had there been I may have spotted it. It's a one-way landing strip also. It did highlight the need for a windsock, and just how tough those Lightwings are !

 

In a long flying career now I've probabily been caught with last minute sink like that three times I reckon.....................................Maj...

 

 

[flying dog]

Quick question:

 

I like to teach them to students, is to fly level with the ground so that the grass brushing the wheel spins it up to speed and then lower the plane gently the last 1/2 inch, with the stall warning blowing. Once they get the basics they can polish it up later. Nev

 

That's what I remember from 30 years ago when I was only a PAX. But now when flying this is discouraged.

 

Why? What am I missing?

 

 

[.Evan.]

That's what I remember from 30 years ago when I was only a PAX. But now when flying this is discouraged.

Why? What am I missing?

Could it be because prolonging the hold off may cause problems if there are unpredictable winds present?