NatFly Members Meeting Minutes

[Admin]

Hi all

 

The minutes of the members meeting at NatFly are now available:

 

http://www.raa.asn.au/notices/natfly2011meetingmin.pdf

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I'll probably kick myself for replying to this, but Im amazed that there hasnt been any comment at all to the PDF.......

 

Especially this bit:-

 

Question one – Has the Executive Director ever had a discussion with an existing board member where the words or similar to or to the effect of the following was used – You will resign or face legal action?

 

Answer :-

 

CEO – I cannot ever remember using those words, I will take that question on notice.

 

Follow up:-

 

No.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Probably because that's exactly what we expected Andy.

 

Also those of us who have spoken up have had precious little support from members who stand to be financially affected.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Despite what we might see in Federal Question time, there are ways to achieve outcomes that dont require the "take no prisoners" approach in everything that is done and an assumption that evryone else is the enemy.

 

In any event I know what I have to do come voting time so what more "support" do you want at the end of the day?

 

Advertisers may well think that if a little advertising is good , and a lot is better, then by extenstion absolute heaps must be the bee's knees. I personally know that there is a point where no matter how good the product If I hear it advertised just once more then I'll need to be on fire before I buy their bottle of water, and then only if it was the last bottle of water on earth!! That analogy doesnt fit as well as I want because in this case I pressume all you want is change, ignoring the delivery of the messages, the case for change is made, to my mind and I'll do what I can to facilitiate it.

 

 

[Captain]

Thanks for posting that advice Ian. Members would have been disadvantaged if you hadn't.

 

I would offer the following comments:

 

The minutes in item 8 do not fully capture the evasiveness of the President when answering David's question.

 

The after note on Item 8 establishes that Board Member Caban didn't advise the meeting correctly. I assume that was an accidental error on his part ... but I wonder???. Perhaps Board Member Caban should read the Constitution & Rules a few more times instead of basking at the top as he advised JR Mobile is his expectation.

 

I am dissatisfied that an answer by the Executive Director was not provided to Item 10 as an after-note in these Minutes and I ask that Board Members please follow up on that so that a detailed response is provided.

 

I am also disapointed and dissatisfied that the RA Aus's public apology, which was promised to me via Steve Runciman, was not included in the Minutes and was not included in the last Magazine as promised.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Admin]

Ian, when was this put up on the web site? Was there any intention to tell us that the minutes were published on the site?I had no idea or indication this was to happen as we had all expected that we would not see them till the next edition of our magazine.

I have only just scanned the record of meeting and it appears to be more a hansard than a minuted record and that is to the Board's credit, well done.

 

David

David, I think it was only late last week but I can't confirm exactly when they went up

 

 

[Captain]

All,

 

I write in support of Don's and David's last posts, and I repeat para 3 of my post # 6 above. In my opinion, David's point about the deliberate intent to change the RAA's by-laws was made even worse, if that is possible, by the evasive way that the President answered David's several questions in the Meeting of Members at Natfly. Based on what I witnessed, if David had not pressed his question again and again, the President would not have disclosed the true position to his members.

 

A shameful situation and must have been deliberate, as he had weeks and weeks to prepare for that meeting.

 

My conclusion is that this entire issue is a disgrace and can be directly sheeted home to the President (Reid) who ran and supported it, the Secretary (Jarvis) who wrote the position paper and possibly concocted it, and the failed Treasurer (Caban) who spoke in favour of the process and mislead the Meeting of Members, after being asleep at the wheel for months with regard to the Treasurership.

 

All up, I consider this to be a serious breach of corporate governance and a more serious breach of fiduciary obligations.

 

I do hope the membership turns out in droves to cast their vote at these next elections, and even if the slacko's aren't tipped out, the weight of members voting will give these guys a wake-up call.

 

And where was our so-called CEO through all of this?

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[turboplanner]

The board members know where he was and what he was doing, so maybe they'd like to break their silence and tell us.

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

Ian, when was this put up on the web site? Was there any intention to tell us that the minutes were published on the site?

David,

The website and magazine are the two comunication tools for the organisation. Are you now saying that we need to tell all members that we have posted something on the web? Come on, be realisitic how would we have told 10,000 members there is something on the website. It is there for all to see so use it.

 

Steve

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

And Steve Runciman in particular.No conspiracy theories intended here but I wonder if the meeting wasn't recorded somehow?

 

Either that or somebody is pretty capable with shorthand.

Don,

 

No conspiracy here. A member was wise enough to record the meeting and after he approached me and offered me a copy of the recording. I, of course, jumped at the offer and as a result a very accurate record of the meeting was produced. The member is thanked.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

Thanks for posting that advice Ian. Members would have been disadvantaged if you hadn't.I am dissatisfied that an answer by the Executive Director was not provided to Item 10 as an after-note in these Minutes and I ask that Board Members please follow up on that so that a detailed response is provided.

 

Regards Geoff

Geoff,

As I said in a post earlier these minutes were posted on the organisations website for all to see so I do not agree with your comment that 'members would have been disadvantaged if you hadn't'; they are just as able as Ian to log onto the website and see what is there!

 

Also, an answer was provided to your question shown at number 10 of the minutes. His answer is simply No.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

I would like to challenge that response from the CEO but I won't do that in a public forum. It would be unseemly. No doubt others who have a vested interest in a proper outcome may choose to pursue the matter further elsewhere.A more seemly time and place for a detailed set of questions might be the Annual General Meeting.

Don,

 

Could I suggest that the AGM is maybe not the place to resolve this particular subject but a letter the the CEO asking him to clarify would be more appropriate?

 

Just a thought.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

Steve, I was not suggesting anything so unrealistic as that buddy. My question was based on the original intent to include the minutes with the magazine. My thoughts were along the lines of maybe that the magazine could have advised members that the minutes were to be published on the website since most of us were waiting for them to be included as an insertion with the magazine. That was all it was Steve.Also I applaud the use of a recording for accuracy, as I said in my first post that the record of the proceeding was well done.

 

David

David,

 

Thanks for the reply and point taken. It was stated at the meeting that the minutes would be published in the magazine and as you can see the length of the record precludes this. Rtaher than produc minutes I decided to produce a complete, accurate record of the meeting, which resulted in a large document as can be seen. I produced the record and sent it to the executive. I also published it on the Board Forum for Board members comment. After a week or so I took it that they were all happy with it so I requested that they be posted on the website. I have asked that they be published in the magazine as an insert or as a synopsis (so as not to take up much space). We will wait to see if this happens or not but I will continue to pess the issue. It was also too late to put an insert in the magazine to inform members but your point is taken.

 

I am pleased that we were able to produce an accurate record of the meeting and, again, the member is thanked. Certainly a lesson learnt by me and it is my ntention to invest in a recording device before any other meeting.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

David,Thanks for the reply and point taken. It was stated at the meeting that the minutes would be published in the magazine and as you can see the length of the record precludes this. Rtaher than produc minutes I decided to produce a complete, accurate record of the meeting, which resulted in a large document as can be seen. I produced the record and sent it to the executive. I also published it on the Board Forum for Board members comment. After a week or so I took it that they were all happy with it so I requested that they be posted on the website. I have asked that they be published in the magazine as an insert or as a synopsis (so as not to take up much space). We will wait to see if this happens or not but I will continue to pess the issue. It was also too late to put an insert in the magazine to inform members but your point is taken.

 

I am pleased that we were able to produce an accurate record of the meeting and, again, the member is thanked. Certainly a lesson learnt by me and it is my ntention to invest in a recording device before any other meeting.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Steve

Steve

 

Just some off the cuff thinking.........If you record the meeting using recent technology and the transcribe to a document that is then put up on a website then the obvious next step/replacement step is why bother transcribing at all, why not put up an MP3 / Podcast of the meeting so that people can not only read the words but hear the pauses and tones used.

 

With all that has been said about the natfly meeting I personally would like to have heard a recording of it.

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

SteveJust some off the cuff thinking.........If you record the meeting using recent technology and the transcribe to a document that is then put up on a website then the obvious next step/replacement step is why bother transcribing at all, why not put up an MP3 / Podcast of the meeting so that people can not only read the words but hear the pauses and tones used.

 

With all that has been said about the natfly meeting I personally would like to have heard a recording of it.

 

Andy

Andy,

 

A very good point and suggestion. I will say that it was a bit hard for me to hear at the time but if I could hear it I am sure everyone else would be able to! I will look into this and if it is possible I will do it (I am sure the member will not mind me doing so). It is certainly food for thought for the future. Thanks for your suggestion.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[turboplanner]

This subject was raised with me by two if not three board members in discussions directly with them.

 

They were not able to achieve a satisfactory outcome within the confines you are suggesting and the morals flow both ways.

 

In general terms I agree with you Don, but if an elected official doing their duty is mistreated in any way, it needs to go out to all the members.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Depending on the Agenda order that could make the answer "yes" and the subject buried.

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

No. The CEO is an employee and is subject directly to the Board and only through the Board to the members. On that basis, perhaps the next question from Geoff might be:

"Is the Board satisfied with the published answer from the CEO?".

 

The question could be put to the Board by letter and dealt with via the Board Forum. If the majority of the Board answer "Yes" then the focus must shift to the Board. The AGM then is the only venue for Members to seriously question the Board as a group and obtain satisfaction. Other than of course the ballot.

Don, Turbopanner,

 

My suggestion for the direct contact was for the reasons you stated. You may also get a better understanding of what went on and actions taken by individuals. This course of action may also allow you to give members the satsifaction that all was above board (or not as the case may be). It is alright for board members to give an explanation of the events (as far as they understand them) but there may be 'you would say that, you are a member of the board' but if it came from an independent scource, such as yourself, then maybe people would be more satisfied. Let me know if you need any assistance.

 

Regards,

 

Steve