Circuit Hell

[dazza 38]

FWIW - in a nut shell, repetition is the key, Fly regularly.(while at the circuit stage of training)Dont force the A/c onto the ground.Hold off and let it settle on to the ground.Trim. Avaite, them communicate.By that I mean, if your brain is overloaded, concentrate on flying the Aircraft.Dont worry about little mistakes on the radio.It will all fall into place with Practise.

 

 

[redozbris]

Another couple of hours in the air on the weekend... On A different topic for anyone still covering the thread, For other CFI's/FI's, If an aircraft is in late from a private hire, and there is a student waiting, do you push them back to try and accomidate other students in the day? I'm not griping, sometimes I wait around for an hour on the second flight because the day just gets pushed out more and more sequentially.. Would appreciate any other experiences...

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

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[Guest pookemon]

Dont worry about little mistakes on the radio.

lol - on Monday I needed to make my "Joining Mid field xwind" call and my instructor asked me what I was going to say. I rattled it off like a pro. Then I press the button and unfortunately it must have been the "Delete" button. I had to stop and think what runway, what I was doing etc. etc. It's funny how that happens.

 

 

[.Evan.]

lol - on Monday I needed to make my "Joining Mid field xwind" call and my instructor asked me what I was going to say. I rattled it off like a pro. Then I press the button and unfortunately it must have been the "Delete" button. I had to stop and think what runway, what I was doing etc. etc. It's funny how that happens.

Yep, been there - done that!

 

 

[Powerin]

lol - on Monday I needed to make my "Joining Mid field xwind" call and my instructor asked me what I was going to say. I rattled it off like a pro. Then I press the button and unfortunately it must have been the "Delete" button. I had to stop and think what runway, what I was doing etc. etc. It's funny how that happens.

Ah yes, the PTT Automatic Stupidity Inducing Button...I know it well....

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

... On A different topic for anyone still covering the thread, For other CFI's/FI's, If an aircraft is in late from a private hire, and there is a student waiting, do you push them back to try and accomidate other students in the day? ...Would appreciate any other experiences...

Not often significantly late in my experience, but it does happen. Students are sometimes late arriving, as are TIF bookings. Navs can vary in duration quite easily if the wind is significantly different to expectations. Occasionally I had to wait but mostly not. I also exacerbated one of the booking slippages, by being half an hour late. I offered to forego the lesson, but the CFI said, no, lets go. We then had a wind change during the Nav which was over three hours planned and that extended the time. Arriving at the destination, we met someone the CFI knew and ended up having a coffee with him before returning... Result was back an hour later than expected.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

"Time to spare- go by air"- applies to the teaching environment as well I'm afraid. Flying is fast, but you can't rush it.

 

 

[Dieselten]

What I find helpful when teaching circuits with relatively inexperienced students is to do a half-hour session, have a short break to refresh and de-stress, then do another half-hour. This avoids the fatigue that sets in at about the 48-minute mark in a solid hour of circuits and gets rid of the poor landings and sloppy circuits which result from a tired student grimly labouring away and then going home thinking "this is too hard, I'm never going to get this right".

 

I try to get my students going home after a lesson with their confidence up and looking forward to their next flight, not dreading it. Learning is faster if learning is fun.

 

A good pre-flight briefing about what you are specifically looking for in their circuit-flying is also very necessary, but the short break halfway through the hour can be a major help to a student who is somewhat overwhelmed with how much happens in the circuit.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

What I find helpful when teaching circuits with relatively inexperienced students is to do a half-hour session, have a short break to refresh and de-stress, then do another half-hour. This avoids the fatigue that sets in at about the 48-minute mark in a solid hour of circuits and gets rid of the poor landings and sloppy circuits which result from a tired student grimly labouring away and then going home thinking "this is too hard, I'm never going to get this right".Spot on!- we try to intro the initial ccts with just the 4 segments being flown- same as in upper air work(uaw), drawing the references that this is really all a cct is, a climb, a climbing turn, levelling off then S&L and two descending turns followed by the landing. The loading only then comes in stages as the student get's more comfortable. The question of how good a student should be at these before we start ccts is "chicken and egg" and I'm sure open to vigorous debate.

 

Forty mins is a long hour as any student knows in the cct- don't worry, we've all been there. We're not trying to be harping ogres, just getting the sequences of repetition bedded in like the x tables we all used to recite in school, some of it is ROTE, but from this will come the free space to make all the judgements that come later in further lessons.

 

This thread has proved interesting as it shows the high emphasis that our students place on this part of their training and why instructors need to be patient and mentoring as well as reminding them that the cct is just the polishing ground for all the basic flight phases on which we progresively build airmanship, effective lookout, listening and judgement to make them true aviators.

[Ballpoint 246niner]

What I find helpful when teaching circuits with relatively inexperienced students is to do a half-hour session, have a short break to refresh and de-stress, then do another half-hour. This avoids the fatigue that sets in at about the 48-minute mark in a solid hour of circuits and gets rid of the poor landings and sloppy circuits which result from a tired student grimly labouring away and then going home thinking "this is too hard, I'm never going to get this right".Spot on!- we try to intro the initial ccts with just the 4 segments being flown- same as in upper air work(uaw), drawing the references that this is really all a cct is, a climb, a climbing turn, levelling off then S&L and two descending turns followed by the landing. The loading only then comes in stages as the student get's more comfortable. The question of how good a student should be at these before we start ccts is "chicken and egg" and I'm sure open to vigorous debate.

 

Forty mins is a long hour as any student knows in the cct- don't worry, we've all been there. We're not trying to be harping ogres, just getting the sequences of repetition bedded in like the x tables we all used to recite in school, some of it is ROTE, but from this will come the free space to make all the judgements that come later in further lessons.

 

This thread has proved interesting as it shows the high emphasis that our students place on this part of their training and why instructors need to be patient and mentoring as well as reminding them that the cct is just the polishing ground for all the basic flight phases on which we progresively build airmanship, effective lookout, listening and judgement to make them true aviators.

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Oops, sorry for the repitition- it doesn't make it twice as important! Sorry:doh:

 

 

[.Evan.]

it dosen't hurt to fly the first circuit yourself and talk the student through......

My instructor did that most lessons, CFI. I found it quite helpful to see how it all should be before I attempted it again (after not flying for a few days).

 

 

[redozbris]

:) Thanks to all, Many more questions to continue.. Solo'd this afternoon, will write it up and get it through.. :)

 

 

[Suitman]

Well done Redozbris! Congrats!

[drifter45]

Nice feeling eh? Well done

 

 

[Ronin]

Hey Red, I am only confirming all of the above, be prepared, stay calm, make sure you feel right, watch your speed, watch your heights and control it in, i had heaps of fun getting it right but once i got the head right and just calmed and made sure my preparation was right it stated to come much easier i know look forward to the landings even in not so good wind, there always a test.....Eric

 

 

[redozbris]

Thats the key to it I think, keeping it calm and expecting things to happen, and then reacting appropriatly, Went up for my second solo yesterday, on a new runway (Funny in 4 months I've never used Runway 06!) So after a bad circuit (Trying to downwind on Runway 12!) and a bit of help from my instructor, we got it sorted out, and the next few where getting better, the last few solo circuits where okay, but I got disturbed on the second last downwind, for some reason, and I'm thinking it through, My controls where level and balanced, but the left wing popped up about 30 degree's and I REALLY had to fight it down, that lasted about 2-3 seconds, then it all went back to normal.. On the last cct before full stop, I really looked at the ground that I was going over and I couldnt see any real reason for it, where it happened there was just grass'd fields.. Very odd... So yes, go un-nerved on that one, and Fuddled around getting it slowed down, and came in a little low.. well, lots low, had to fix that up..

 

Haveing an absolute Blast! Radio calls where getting a little to verbose towards the end, but was getting exhausted, still had enough time for another cct, but I called it full stop and truddled back to the hanger... My instructor picked up on my flat approaches, the only thing I could put it down to was the headwind, as I was really working on the airspeed problem that I've been having...

 

Day 5 and Still have the silly grin :)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

good to hear you are still enjoying it. summer is around the corner so that means thermals in the circuit, so get ready for the sink.

 

 

[ScreaminJimmy]

Know this is probably a moot point now as I see you have completed your solo, but thought I'd share anyway.

 

Back in '01 or '02 I did a 2 week flying school with Scouts at Camden. I had a bunch of different instructors but one in particular used to bust my balls every flight, which at the time, would frustrate the hell out of me. But at the end of the day I'm glad he did.

 

Towards the end of the 2 weeks I was doing circuits with the aforementioned instructor when pretty heft windstorm came in, which meant we had to switch to the grass strip (I had never landed on anything other than bitumen before). Despite that, and the fact that we still had a diagonal cross-wind, I managed to get the Cessna 150 on the ground without any assistance from my instructor. His words - "Right. First thing tomorrow you are going up for your solo". Honestly one of the proudest moments of my life. And the solo flight the next day went mostly according to plan, despite the change in weight in the aircraft making the effects of the hot summer air, and the cool air pockets above the river just before the strip, seem much more dramatic.

 

Beyond that time and money got away away from me, and I didn't really fly since, until I started my ultralight training in a Jabiru-120 last year, and I'll tell you what, doing circuits again (basically from square 1) and sucking at them is a whole new level of frustration (especially after such a big high the last time I was taking lessons).

 

So my advice, keep it up as much as you can. Nothing worse than putting a stack of effort into something only to have to redo it all over again because of your own tardiness.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

.. And the solo flight the next day went mostly according to plan, despite the change in weight in the aircraft making the effects of the hot summer air, and the cool air pockets above the river just before the strip, seem much more dramatic.

Ah. Just what you need on final to make things interesting... lift from some good thermals, followed by sink over a river just before the runway :big_grin:

As I'm sure you are finding, the lower wing loading of recreational aircraft amplifies the effects. Keep at it. You did it once. You'll do it again.

 

 

[redozbris]

Your right, was up yesterday and the hot weather makes a real difference, everyone was having troubles getting down, unexpected sink, unexpected lift, and sometimes its there, and sometimes it not... did 7 circuits on 06 at YCAB yesterday, every single one of them was different, thermals in some spots not others, sink where there was no sink.. interesting yet fun :)

 

red...

 

 

[Mazda]

Jimmy which instructor was that? JH, JG ...? It sounds as though they got you going!

 

 

[ScreaminJimmy]

Jimmy which instructor was that? JH, JG ...? It sounds as though they got you going!

Just had look in the log book and looks like it was JH