Circuit Hell

[Mazda]

Red, as much as people can give you some advice on here you are going to need to go up with a good instructor and sort this out, plus some hours.

 

There is much to do in a circuit, in around 6 minutes, climbs, climbing turn, level turn, S & L, descending turn, descending, and that is not even taking into consideration lookout, checks, radio calls and landing. It's a lot. So let your instructor do some of the work until you get the hang of it, like the radio.

 

Make sure your instructor has given you a really thorough circuit briefing of exactly what you will do at every stage of the circuit, and how you correct any issues. Learn your pre-landing checks off by heart, and don't rush them.

 

The circuit involves things you know (climbing/descending, S & L), but make sure you are told the spacing to look for. On landing, make sure your instructor gives you definite instructions on where to look and what to look for, but with your height it may be a different picture to your instructor.

 

You can slow things down by not doing too many things at once, such as climbing to circuit height before turning downwind if at all possible. Later on you can combine things together to bring the circuits in nice and tight. In fast aircraft it is pretty normal to put down a first stage of flap late downwind, abeam the landing threshold, but use whatever technique you have been taught.

 

The Toowoomba Aero Club is very good. I know it is a long way, but I did some flying there because I found them to be very clear and very helpful. The drive is cheaper than extra dual hours.

 

Do make sure you find an aircraft to fit you, I fly GA so can't comment on appropriately sized RA-Aus aircraft, people here may have some good ideas. In GA your weight would give more leeway for carrying fuel than with the low weight limit of RA-Aus, and Cessnas do seem to be made for the tall.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You need to be trimming on take off and on final, it makes a huge difference when you are doing circuits because you end up just flying the plane with your feet and the throttle. On downwind its doesn't make a lot of difference to you as you are flying level. once you work out how much trim you need you just hit the same mark every time.

 

 

[redozbris]

Thanks guys, got some good news apparently I got 97% on me pre-solo exam, so there is home for me yet ;) Its all about sequences really, I've got most of it in my head, just learning what to look for is the hard thing, and my preservation instict still hasnt dulled to the fact of what I am doing is dangerous, so I tend to pull out early, or level off early, or do things, that will keep me from the ground like killing airspeed by pulling back at the wrong times ;)

 

To all thanks for the pep, its appreciated, I'll get there in the end, I said to the boss from the first flight, It doesnt bother me if it takes me another 10 years to get this right before you issue my certificate, I want to do it safely and confidently ;)

 

ReD

 

 

[.Evan.]

Glad to hear, Red!

 

I want to do it safely and confidently.

I think that's how we should all be approaching our flying!

 

Keep up the good work.

 

 

[Piet Fil]

ReD,

 

Funnily enough, I say the same thing to myself "If I never get my certificate, would I still be happy having my instructor along every time I flew....... you betcha ... its still flying! (which beats being mortally landbound anyday)" Phil

 

 

[redozbris]

:) Someone to keep you company hehe

 

 

[Another David]

Hi Red

 

I too am learning circuits. I have flown three different planes and had 4 instructors. You wouldn't think they were all following the same procedures as all have their own ideas and methods. I have decided now to stay with just the one instructor and the one plane. That way I won't get so confused with what I am supposed to be doing and when I look down to check my instruments I will know where the bloody things are. I think this will help me. Know what you are going through.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Actually, it is good to fly more than one aircraft of the same type, just so you realise how they handle differently. Hanging onto one instructor is probably a good thing though ;-)

 

 

[winsor68]

I started on a J170, got the best part of my training and first solo in a Texan (still the perfect Ra-Aus aircraft in my opinion), now flying a Savanah S for Pax endo and X country Navex. 99% of my time was with one instructor but I have had check rides etc with another (to keep us both on our toes! lol)... all fairly different aircraft.

 

But in every aircraft if you basically do circuits at 1000 feet, trim and set power as you turn base... arrive at 500 feet on final at the correct speed... then they aren't vastly different. After a few hours it all slows down a bit and you can really break it down into its key elements I reckon.

 

Just a little rambling and like I say... I don't have a lot of hours but I can speak from recent experience... It was only a short while ago that I was experiencing circuit hell! lol

 

 

[redozbris]

Had a lot more success this last weekend, better weather, clearer head, more rested, and we did a little trip out to the training area to go over some of the basics which I've seemed to have missed/mislearned or just plain forgotten... Not quite hell any more, just purgatory.. but the bright note is that I got 90% on me pre solo exam, suffed up the holding point line markings, for some reason two unbroken lines popped into my head, nope two broken and two unbroken lines... oh well, and a quetsion, that I believe is purely a matter of choice, if your heading out and you see someone that 'looks like they manoevering' to downwind.. what do you do... Me Personally. looking like they are maneoving on downwind, in a high wing aircraft, being 6ft6, in a p92s, is will, hard, and secondly, your climbinging out, your not going to see them in a high wing, I can explain my answer, still doesnt make it right in the answer key though ;)

 

I'll get there! Two hours at a time :)

 

ReD

 

 

[ben87r]

hey red, im driving 4 hours each way at the moment to my school, i live in port douglas but am working in townsville so each weekend will be a drive to innisfail. We don't have much choice of schools up here but there is one 30min from townsville but decided that i would be better off at innisfail. My thoughts are, you will learn more with an instructor that you gel with not so much the "best" instructor cause if you dont understand what he is trying to explain to you (like my last school) you dont seem to get anywhere and, my thoughts are value for $$$, i would rather drive/spend more money for training that works, so if you were happyier at one of the other schools then maybe it is worth the sacrifice of the travel for the best result in the end cause at the end of the day no point spending $$ if it doesn't seem to be working....... just my 3 cents

 

 

[Guest pookemon]

@DavidH10 -- This is what I was shown and it seemed to work well for me, Though the turns can get a little uncordinated, but for me I always felt it was just me forgetting 'Right Rudder', its quite odd, my right leg goes to sleep, as I go into 'car mode', because where you up to speed in a car, you dont need a lot to keep it going, you just rest your right clod hopper on the pedal and off you go, this is what I am doing, and it plays havock with me.

I have the same problem. I drive a manual so my left foot spends most of it's time on the foot rest. That translates to be resting my foot on the left rudder almost continually. Being aware of it is the first hurdle (you're too busy to start with to even notice what you're doing) - practise, practise, practise is the cure. I'm just now getting to the point where I feel I am using my feet effectively - especially close to the ground - and I'm alot better in a cruise/climb. And it all comes from practise.

 

 

[winsor68]

I have the same problem. I drive a manual so my left foot spends most of it's time on the foot rest. That translates to be resting my foot on the left rudder almost continually. Being aware of it is the first hurdle (you're too busy to start with to even notice what you're doing) - practise, practise, practise is the cure.

You know reading this only just made me remember learning to drive... from an early age (and learning to drive on an airfield) I remember a conversation about driving and feet on pedals amongst a group of pilots... it must have stuck because I have always been fastidious about not resting my feet on the pedals when driving... lol

 

 

[fly_tornado]

thank god for cruise control and automatics

 

 

[Tomo]

Fortunately for me I had the benefit of driving farm and earthmoving machinery ever since I can remember... dozers, bobcats, excavators etc... so getting the feet to do things wasn't all that hard a transition at all.

 

 

[facthunter]

Previous experience crops up. I had a student who flared to land at dot feet. I asked him in a moment of inspiration. "did you fly powered chutes in a past life?". Answer YES.That explained a lot. Pilots who drive tractors can revert to pulling the throttle to increase revs, instead of pushing it forward. Nev

 

 

[Suitman]

Previous experience crops up. I had a student who flared to land at dot feet. I asked him in a moment of inspiration. "did you fly powered chutes in a past life?". Answer YES.That explained a lot. Pilots who drive tractors can revert to pulling the throttle to increase revs, instead of pushing it forward. Nev

Yes, it took me a while to learn to wait that long before flaring!

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

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[redozbris]

I've done some shockers, I'm a little scared about using power to close to the ground, I did a drop from about 2ft, it was a bad thud, the next time around, we where about to do the same thing again, but the instructor jumped on and pushed some power in, and we came in quite nicely.. I'm finding the same problem, keeping the 'Sight' profile up, I am still a little bewildered at whats going on, I an unsure what to be focusing on, but I've got the climb out, the capturing 1000ft (sorry 1040 for me ;)!) can be pretty close, I am usually withing 50 feet either up or below, some last week where 950, so I was 90 out, not to bad, but not that great either, but am getting there... Getting the checks in, I mean anyone can say them, but actually checking them is the hard thing, then with me the biggest problem is that my eye line is well and truly in the roof cavity, so I have to bob down to see the runway, and bobing causes me to move the stick, which upsets the balance of the universe a little ;) If I get the power off at the threshold, and turn at 45 to the threshold, I usually come in nice and neat, if I stuff ass around I usually end up all over the shop... But its just practice practice practice.. I am going to ask the instructors this week if in a few weeks when I've got this under control, If I can start to do some flights without the rpm meter or airspeed indicator, I need to get the sight picture nailed, I actually enjoyed my flying last week for the first time in ages, I stopped chasing the bloody guages and started to look what was going out outside.. lovely day as well... Up on sunday.... if its not raining, if it is, I'll spend 4-8 hours locked in the aircraft making machine gun noises.. no wait, flying... professionaly... with maybe just some machine gun noises later on!!!!

 

 

[Powerin]

Pilots who drive tractors can revert to pulling the throttle to increase revs, instead of pushing it forward. Nev

Yep!! That was one of my biggest hurdles in learning to fly...push don't pull!

The funny thing is I reckon if I had a throttle quadrant in the plane instead of a push/pull knob I would have been OK. Modern tractors and harvesters (when they have a throttle....lots of auto throttles these days) tend to have a push forward throttle lever (quadrant style).

 

The paradigm in a lot of ground vehicles is that you pull a knob to do something. And all our tractors from the 1950s Grey Fergie (which I used today) up until the 1980s Massey Fergusons had throttle levers next to the steering wheel that you pull towards you to increase.

 

 

[Guest pookemon]

I've done some shockers, I'm a little scared about using power to close to the ground, I did a drop from about 2ft, it was a bad thud, the next time around, we where about to do the same thing again, but the instructor jumped on and pushed some power in, and we came in quite nicely.. I'm finding the same problem, keeping the 'Sight' profile up, I am still a little bewildered at whats going on, I an unsure what to be focusing on, but I've got the climb out, the capturing 1000ft (sorry 1040 for me ;)!) can be pretty close, I am usually withing 50 feet either up or below, some last week where 950, so I was 90 out, not to bad, but not that great either, but am getting there... Getting the checks in, I mean anyone can say them, but actually checking them is the hard thing, then with me the biggest problem is that my eye line is well and truly in the roof cavity, so I have to bob down to see the runway, and bobing causes me to move the stick, which upsets the balance of the universe a little ;) If I get the power off at the threshold, and turn at 45 to the threshold, I usually come in nice and neat, if I stuff ass around I usually end up all over the shop... But its just practice practice practice.. I am going to ask the instructors this week if in a few weeks when I've got this under control, If I can start to do some flights without the rpm meter or airspeed indicator, I need to get the sight picture nailed, I actually enjoyed my flying last week for the first time in ages, I stopped chasing the bloody guages and started to look what was going out outside.. lovely day as well... Up on sunday.... if its not raining, if it is, I'll spend 4-8 hours locked in the aircraft making machine gun noises.. no wait, flying... professionaly... with maybe just some machine gun noises later on!!!!

As my instructor says - look up for landing (i.e. Look at the other end of the runway - use your peripheral vision to judge your height - I looked down once - bad landing). But if you're too tall, then you might have an issue. Does the Tecnam have flaps? Flaps give you a more nose down attitude - which in your case could restrict your view (if so can you try flapless landings?).

 

 

[redozbris]

Sadly even with flaps at full, I cant use my peripheral vision. I may try some flapless landings, I've caught myself at 300ft several times in the last few months with no flaps to retract on takeoff, I really want to master the sight picture and keeping my nose down to keep the right glide speed before I start mucking with it, I am getting there, I've found that if I concentrate and bob my head every so often and dont over think things it all tends to go a little more smoothly... I am tending to undershoot a litle, but thats mainly because I am turning late on base so I tend to be a bit far out, little more power needed to pull myself back in... it all comes with time and finesse... mind you I am doing near flapless landings currently, I am forgetting to put out the second stage of flap, I am spending a lot of time referencing the airfield, and figuring out what is going on on glide, so much so I forget to put the flaps out, but its just a matter of talking it through, which I am not doing, I tend to do it all in my head, and as its stated, if you talk out lound, you slow your mind to the pace of your voice, and you tend to check things through, but being a male, I cant talk, think and aviate at the same time... I will bring this up with my intructor this weekend, just to see if it makes any difference, I would be very interested to see if it does...

 

 

[.Evan.]

I may try some flapless landings...

They're great fun, and can be quite different to flapped approaches. I was told to remember three things when doing flapless landings:

 

• With less drag, power changes can have a marked change in airspeed. One has to reduce the revs quite a bit to slow down, yet not much of an increase in engine speed will increase your airspeed quickly.
   
   
  
• Your approach angle will be slightly shallower.
   
   
  
• When it comes time to flare the aircraft is already close to the landing attitude, so there is no need for a really pronounced flare. Overdoing it may result in tail strike!
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

If yo are sitting high in the seat, it becomes harder to juddge aircraft attitude. (and landings). It might pay to get a lower seat cushion. Nev

 

 

[Powerin]

Perhaps an "Attitude Reference Point" might help? This is just a mark or marks on the windscreen drawn with a whiteboard marker to give you a reference point on your aircraft to line up with horizon or runway. Download the free "Fly Better" series of books from here. In Book 2, lessons one and two deal with how to make reference marks and flying and landing using these reference marks. I haven't tried them in an aeroplane yet.