Underuse of good airfields

[youngster]

I'm only new to this whole flying thing (in fact, so new I'm taking my first theory class tonight), but it seems to me that we are underutilising a whole lot of good airports because RAA flyers cannot access controlled airspace.

 

Airports like Coffs Harbour, Port Macquarie, Tamworth, etc, are ideally situated to take advantage of the trend toward Rec flying, but once you do your training under a CFI with a CASA exemption to train RAA at these airports, you cannot fly from the airport where you trained.

 

Is there any logic to introducing an endorsement to allow RAA pilots to fly into some of these smaller regional airports without getting a PPL? Or some other system to make these airports accessible?

 

As I said, I'm only new to this, so I may be missing some very good reasons to keep RAA pilots out of these airports, and I'm happy to be corrected.

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

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[youngster]

I completely agree. I'm doing lessons at Coffs and I think if it was open to RAA it would attract many visitors because of the great location on the coast, it would be a nice place to fly into for a holiday as there is plenty of things to fly and look at and also the airfield is only about an 8 minute taxi to the center of Coffs. Flying down the coast at 500ft to get to the training area for my lessons is always fun. Coffs would be a great airfield for RAA as there is the smaller 10/28 runway that means if winds are right you can land and takeoff with minimal disruption to RPT traffic. Besides there are a bucketload of warriors training CPL's here so it isn't as if a few RAA aircraft would be a nuisance! We also have the space! There are plans to build almost 20 to 30 new hangars in some dead space on the airfield but arguably without RAA access they would not be filled. For example the hangar at my flying school has the Foxbat and 2 trikes in it, and there used to be a Cessna 210 on top of that which is now gone because it was unprofitable, so there is almost space for 2 more RA aircraft in our hangar, I know for a fact that the massive hangar next to us only houses one warrior as well, and the others down further probably only have one aircraft in them.It never actually occurred to me before that once I get my certificate I wouldn't be able to hire the Foxbat and go flying from Coffs... Must talk to my instructor about that!

Jake, I'm about to start with the Aviation Centre as well. I really enjoyed the TIF in the Foxbat. Coffs has a maximum of about 7-8 RPT flights each day, and even with the training activities going on, it's not really that busy. I assume the same goes for Port, Tamworth, Ballina-Byron, etc.

 

 

[pylon500]

Flying from Taree, I have never had problems flying into Port Macquarie as it is not controlled airspace.

 

Operations into controlled airspace require more training, higher onboard equipment levels and limited scope for flight variation, you are controlled.

 

This all goes to add more cost to flying which is not always in the interest of recreational flying.

 

These controlled airports are actually being well utilised when you think about it, someone can go and learn 'how to fly' recreationally at a place possibly closer to home, they just need to go elsewhere once they're on their own.

 

It is always possible to utilise controlled airports/airspace, but you do need to work up to a GA license.

 

GA PPL pilots that come over to recreational flying can still use their privileges in a recreational aircraft providing it is equipped with the right gear.

 

Since the inception of Ultralight flying, there has always been the desire to increase weights, performance, range and accessibility, and there has been a gradual change in this direction, but with it has come increased cost and complexity.

 

The feeling now (as I perceive it) is that we have gone far enough, and that to go any further will have us becoming a copy of GA with all the same costs and regulations that go with it.

 

Lets keep flying fun...

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

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[youngster]

Flying from Taree, I have never had problems flying into Port Macquarie as it is not controlled airspace.Operations into controlled airspace require more training, higher onboard equipment levels and limited scope for flight variation, you are controlled.

This all goes to add more cost to flying which is not always in the interest of recreational flying.

 

These controlled airports are actually being well utilised when you think about it, someone can go and learn 'how to fly' recreationally at a place possibly closer to home, they just need to go elsewhere once they're on their own.

 

It is always possible to utilise controlled airports/airspace, but you do need to work up to a GA license.

 

GA PPL pilots that come over to recreational flying can still use their privileges in a recreational aircraft providing it is equipped with the right gear.

 

Since the inception of Ultralight flying, there has always been the desire to increase weights, performance, range and accessibility, and there has been a gradual change in this direction, but with it has come increased cost and complexity.

 

The feeling now (as I perceive it) is that we have gone far enough, and that to go any further will have us becoming a copy of GA with all the same costs and regulations that go with it.

 

Lets keep flying fun...

Thanks Pylon, I still dont really have a decent understanding of how all the different controlled areas work, but I can see your point about making something that is supposed to about fun a whole lot more complicated and expensive.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

There are lots of under utilized airports within a short drive of population centres.

 

I "own" YQDI on weekends. When I take my little beast out there to go flying I rarely see another aircraft.

 

Empty skies and empty tarmac, just 50 minutes south of Tamworth.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Guys there's a massive thread on here somewhere about CTA. There was talk but we were rejected

 

 

[youngster]

Guys there's a massive thread on here somewhere about CTA. There was talk but we were rejected

I figured it's probably been discussed at some stage, but it's such a broad topic, I wouldn't even know what I was searching for in the earlier threads!

 

 

[Mazda]

I think Pylon has a point, in that RA-Aus was designed to be a fun and less expensive alternative to get people airborne. It seems now it is trying to parallel GA but personally I think that is a backward step. GA already exists. If you want to fly at night, in cloud, take lots of pax, do charters, aeros etc, you can - in GA. It is more expensive because of the medical requirements, extra training, LAME maintenance, CASA costs and so on. I fear that if RA-Aus keeps pushing for more, the costs will go up and it will no longer be the fun and accessible way into aviation that it was designed to be - it will just be the same as GA!

 

Can't we keep RA-Aus simple to allow more people to fly, and those that want to go further can then go over to GA?

 

Maybe the proposed recreational licence will sit somewhere in the middle!

 

 

[sseeker]

I think Pylon has a point, in that RA-Aus was designed to be a fun and less expensive alternative to get people airborne. It seems now it is trying to parallel GA but personally I think that is a backward step. GA already exists. If you want to fly at night, in cloud, take lots of pax, do charters, aeros etc, you can - in GA. It is more expensive because of the medical requirements, extra training, LAME maintenance, CASA costs and so on. I fear that if RA-Aus keeps pushing for more, the costs will go up and it will no longer be the fun and accessible way into aviation that it was designed to be - it will just be the same as GA!Can't we keep RA-Aus simple to allow more people to fly, and those that want to go further can then go over to GA?

 

Maybe the proposed recreational licence will sit somewhere in the middle!

The conversion is also relatively easy to a PPL if you have the right endorsements and experience. You need to find a non-biased school who will assess you for HOW you fly and not WHAT you fly.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[winsor68]

I reckon until CTA gets it stuff together we should be very, very careful... As a recent X-country initiate I am amazed that RPT operations are run into some of the smaller cities with such loose guidelines as to approach and departure... It is left completely up to radio when it all boils down it seems to me... not an ideal situation.

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

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[Guest Jake.f]

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[Guest ozzie]

Sometimes i find it hard to understand peoples fasination of operating from airports. Many of our aircraft are right at home operating from a farmers field or grass strip.

 

The whole idea when we started long ago was to get away from airports and the asociated high costs of operating from there. Controlled airspace is another game all of it's own and it's called GA. But having said that it seems that the RAAus and many members will not be happy until they have access to all airspace zones. And that seems to be the push from several big time board members.

 

can i please have my ANO95:10 back! not that silly CAO one, i mean the original one.

 

ozzie

 

 

[sseeker]

Hi Jake,

 

I think you're still allowed to fly in CTA but only in the aircraft that the exemption states (so the flying schools A/C) you can't however buy your own A/C and fly it out of CTA. I have an entry in my logbook that states I've completed sufficient Class D training to operate a certain schools RA-Aus aircraft out of Jandakot. I can't operate any aeroplane I want though.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

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[youngster]

Part of the problem may be slightly unique to Coffs Harbour, in that we have a shortage of flat, vacant land for private or alternate strips, so you either fly out of the airport, or have to travel at least an hour to find another strip. That turns an early morning joy flight into a half day excursion. It just seems silly to have a great facility not able to be used, even by people who trained there. Perhaps the proposed CASA sport pilot type licence will be the answer.

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

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[pylon500]

or have to travel at least an hour to find another strip

Unfortunately this is true, but don't feel bad, if any of the 4.5 million people in Sydney decide to take up recreational flying, their nearest ultralight field is 'The Oaks' outside of Camden, at least an hours drive from the city centre.

In fact people in Sydney that want to fly GA have to drive a half hour to get to Bankstown.

 

I was a shareholder in an aviation company at Bankstown, built my own ultralight there, and had to truck it out to 'The Oaks' to test fly it.

 

It's getting to be that we're lucking to have as many airports as we do, just a pity we spend more time driving to them than we do flying once we get there.

 

That's why I moved next to an airport.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Unfortunately this is true, but don't feel bad, if any of the 4.5 million people in Sydney decide to take up recreational flying, their nearest ultralight field is 'The Oaks' outside of Camden, at least an hours drive from the city centre.In fact people in Sydney that want to fly GA have to drive a half hour to get to Bankstown.

I was a shareholder in an aviation company at Bankstown, built my own ultralight there, and had to truck it out to 'The Oaks' to test fly it.

 

It's getting to be that we're lucking to have as many airports as we do, just a pity we spend more time driving to them than we do flying once we get there.

 

That's why I moved next to an airport.

Yes, it's even worse for people living in north-western Sydney who have to travel at least an hour and a half to get to a useable airstrip. It's such a pity they closed Schofields Aerodrome.

 

 

[Mazda]

Ignition Schofields couldn't be changed to D as it is military, which must be C. If you want a bit of it to be D, that means a separate tower and controller just for Schofields, I doubt it would be justified under the tower establishment criteria. I do agree that Richmond has way too much airspace though, especially for Hercs and training, it is vastly greater in size than military airports overseas operating a high number of fast jets.

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

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[Mazda]

Don I do have to agree with you there regarding Williamtown.

 

I agree absolutely a clearance should be available to any aircraft for the Willy coastal lane, especially in bad weather. In fact I would encourage any of you to request that clearance, RA-Aus or not, if you believe you would be safer flying coastal. Don't let them bully you to fly a mile offshore either.

 

The same applies for the Gold Coast, it is safer flying along the coast or even on the western route, rather than skirting the airspace over those mountains in bad weather

 

 

[eightyknots]

Ah Right, Either way I want to see it back in action... (Despite wiping out part of the TAFE thats taken over the southern end.....) :cool_shades:

I couldn't agree with you more.