Cost of PPL versus RA-Aus

[Guest brentc]

For those that have been contemplating their decision to fly RA-Aus with a possibility to move onto GA training, I've been doing some thinking that suggests to me that you've made the right decision.

 

I've just been browsing a Moorabbin based flying school's website.

 

It puts the cost of a PPL at $17,000, plus almost $3,000 in books, theory lessons, navigational equipment, medical, licence / asic and other miscellaneous items.

 

$20K !!!!!!! AND that's based on the minimum hours!

 

Then I was thinking what it costs for a rec certificate after reading Kev's (Donkey) post about 67 hours for a certificate including cross country.

 

Even 67 hours at say $160 an hour for a J160 dual (some are solo of course) is $10,720, plus a theory course, exams, books etc comes up to probably around $11,500 maximum. (will be less because of the cheaper solo hours)

 

Add 15 hours to convert to GA is around $5,000. Then add some misc stuff like medicals and ASIC and books and you're looking at $16,600 which is still a heck of a lot cheaper PLUS in this case 82 hours total flight time of which all count towards a CPL as up to 100 hours count.

 

If you did it in the legal minimum you'd be looking at as low as $4,000 plus conversion to PPL @ around $4,500 with self study, so fly away for less than $8.5k. So it IS possible to get a PPL for HALF the regular price!

 

I'm not sure where I'm headed with this exactly other than to say that starting out with RA-Aus WILL save you money!

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

It's a proven fact. If you want to fly for fun, fly ultralights! Join the RAA and get cracking.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Just to add some colateral:

 

I've done a pilot certificate, radio, pax and xcountry and I'm just shy of 50 hours. So my reckoning is that including books, memberships, fees, ASIC etc I am at the $7500 mark. That's slightly more than I expected when I started but I am very happy about it nevertheless.

 

I don't know what the process is to convert to PPL but I did the PPL theory exams along the way, so some hours and I guess some more exams. Anybody hazard a cost?

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Ultralights]

even $160 an hr is a bit on the expensive side, so a cheaper plane will make a considerable saving! Jabiru dual rates here are $125 hr.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

There is only 1 PPL exam, the PPL(A).

 

It's not overly difficult if you have a practice set and 80+% of the answers are in the ERSA or VFG which you can take in with you.

 

My $160 estimate is based on one of the cheapest Melbourne rates for a J160. It was just a guestimate, but I get your point. It will vary quite a bit on average over your certificate depending on the number of solo hours that you do.

 

In terms of hours you need: (dragged this from a brochure I made)

 

Requirements:

 

 

Remainder of the 40 hours required for PPL (Recreational hours count towards)

 

 

Including:

 

 

- 2 Hours Instrument time

 

(if not already completed in Rec aircraft)

 

 

- 5 Hours Navigational training as PIC

 

(if not completed already in Rec aircraft)

 

 

- Controlled Airspace Procedures (optional)

 

 

- Complete PPL Theory Exam

 

 

- Obtain PPL Medical

 

Plus you need to demonstrate your ability to the satisfaction of the CFI. That might take an hour, or it might take 20, depeding on how well you were instructed.

 

You'll need to know about weight and balance to PPL standard and spend a bit more time on learning about weather.

 

I'd say around 2-3 sessions with an instructor on theory for say a couple of hours at night should be enough. There are usually plenty out there willing to come to your house for a few extra dollars on the side.

 

 

[leestanley]

My stats are similar to Mikes - I am now at Certificate + pax endorsement stage and have invested approx $5400.

 

At this point in my training I am essentially at the equivalent of the GFPT stage of a PPL and I calculate (based on published rates at another school) that I am about $1300 ahead so far.

 

It's now that the savings and value of Rec aviation kick in. If I budget 10 hours to complete x-country I will have gained a flying qualification which is all but a PPL (for my needs, at least) for a little over $7000. (By the Regs, I could gain my xc after 5 hours, as one forum member recently announced, however many CFIs increasingingly see 10 hours as the appropriate anount of time to xc)

 

It's no wonder that the smart GA schools are now embracing Rec aviation as a way of ensuring they attract and hold on to students as long as possible.

 

 

[Guest bateo]

Unfortunately I did it back-to-front.. GA first then Rec. accept I am current with both now.. so fly the best of both worlds.. I agree to all the above facts!!

 

I know I am throwing a few stones by saying its unfortunate that some Rec. Flying schools only teach a very basic syllabus then when those pilots eventuate into a PPL or think they have a good knowledge for the GFPT they actually dont know anything at all!!! BUT

 

having said that.. I know MOST Rec flying schools teach to a BAK or GFPT syllabus to get the most out of their flying whether it eventuates into hobby or Career which makes it a breeze to continue onto a PPL and a hell of a lot cheaper!!

 

Basically what I am saying is that Rec. Flying is definately cheaper, IF you find the right flying school/instructor.. otherwise you will find yourself spending more $$ starting from scratch on your BAK/GFPT with a full RA-Aus certificate.

 

I have seen many pilots last about 5 hours on training for PPL to then realise they know not much at all but to a basic syllabus of RA-Aus

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Of course if 103 gets up you could well ask what a PPL would give you that you wouldnt already have... unless thats the ability to get a CPL... next time around even that'll probably be solved by RAAUS ;)

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Two reasons I will consider a PPL:

 

1. More than 1 pax.
    
    
   
2. Controlled airspace.
    
   

 

It sucks having to drive at least an hour to fly.

 

 

[Guest bateo]

Having said that slartibartfast...

 

RA-Aus are really working hard for a Controlled airspace endorsement/syllabus for RA-Aus.. It is going to be passed through CASA.. This will of course involve a special course to gain your endorsement to fly in controlled airspace WITH a aircraft installed with a transponder and that is comparable of a GA aircraft E.g Jab, Tecnam, Gazzelle, Sting etc.

 

As for Pax... Well you never know what the future holds. They expect to establish a Controlled airspace syllabus by 08

 

 

[Guest brentc]

As much as I like the idea, there's a lot of work to do to get the CTA endorsement up and running for RA-Aus. The fact that there are many RA-Aus instructors out there that have never even flow in CTA, or hold a PPL, let alone teach it! The whole system will need work and many RA-Aus school aircraft aren't adequately equipped to fly into CTA now also which could be a small stumbling block. I guess the larger schools with more money and assets (including GA type commercial instructors) will be out in front when this comes about.

 

What would be nice for many people is the ability to fly into GAAP airspace such as Moorabbin and Bankstown which doesn't require a transponder and isn't quite as strict / rigid as class C CTA.

 

What interests me is that 103 paves the way for Ultralights to be used commercially which will potentiall open many doors, such as Joy Flights and Banner towing etc.

 

Interesting times.

 

 

[Yenn]

When I started there wasn't any AUF so it was all GA. Because I was in Collinsville and the nearest school was at Mackay, I did all the theory by correspondence, right up to commercial as I moved around the country.

 

The correspondence course was brilliant and I had no trouble with the exams. I don't know if there are any correspondence schools still in operation, and unfortunately all my old lessons were chucked out years ago. except for one on the Kane computer and I can't lay my hands on that right now.

 

 

[PaulN]

For those that have been contemplating their decision to fly RA-Aus with a possibility to move onto GA training, I've been doing some thinking that suggests to me that you've made the right decision.I'm not sure where I'm headed with this exactly other than to say that starting out with RA-Aus WILL save you money!

Hi all,

 

Good to be back. Having just noticed this thread I thought it helpful to add info from my own recent experience.

 

I did my Rec Pilot Cert training from Sept 04 thru to Apr 05 at a cost of $4550.00 incl pax, RTF and XC endorsements. Then during Feb this year spent a week with Air Shepparton getting my PPL at a cost of $1900 plus $700 for meals and accommodation. Of course, using my own CT2K for part of the flying training was a saving. The only other costs on top of this was the CASA medical and ASIC.

 

So, yes it can be done.

 

Paul

 

 

[Guest Peggy2]

Hi,

 

I started my PPL training at a cost of a whopping ten quid ($20) an hour at the Wollongong aero club in a Chipmonk tail dragger and even back then it was expensive with coal miners wages of $38 pw. but it was more fun without all the red tape and airport conjestion that one has to put up with today.

 

Bring back the good old days

 

 

[eyecast]

Which ever way you look at it RA is a great way to learn to fly and if you want to do more than RA will let you then go jump through the hoops to the next step. It seems there is always a way.

 

 

[Guest zigi]

vey accurate

 

Hi, as an Raa guy going for GA with 90 odd hors on Jabs I totally agree these prices are pretty accurate ,include the prices for navs and travel times , competitions and other courses and we are up for a small fortune. However i feel the benifits outway the costs. zigi.

 

 

[Relfy]

Has there ever been any talk in RAA of increasing the pax allowance, obviously depending on aircraft design/weight limits?

 

I'm certainly looking forward to showing some friends what it is that i keep raving on about and only have 1hr solo to go in that regard.

 

Last month I did my RAA cert, x-country and all up with 32hrs it was around the 6500 mark. Add another 300 i suppose for the equipment (books, flight comp, protractor, maps, ersa etc) and I now have a certificate to learn! Priceless!

 

 

[Yenn]

To carry more than 1 passenger is going to take a major rule change. I can't see how we can get 2 passengers ineven if the weight limit is lifted to 600kg.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

My two cents worth is this,

 

Why would we pay 1-2K for a CTA endorsement which will allow us to fly into CTA when we can have CTA and as many PAX as we like with 3K PPL ?

 

As I said just my 2 cents worth but this suits my needs and other people may have different needs.

 

 

[Derby]

g'day Adrian, with a ppl you can only take 5 Pax and yourself as pilot ie 6 in total

 

Rory.

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

With a PPL you can take as many people as you like as long as your endorsed on the aircraft! Adrian makes a good point but I think it may be more for the people who are unable to hold a PPL due to the medical restrictions.

 

 

[Derby]

Hi Adam, you are right you can carry more than piolt and 5 people (5+1)

 

if you do not cost share

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

I bet both my balls you will have to have a medical if you get a CTA endorsement in Raa ?

 

I don't need them as I do not play soccer or cricket ;)

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

Good point Adrian it does really make you wonder why doesn't it!

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

Yes it does, I am just thinking logically ? Could you imagine if we did not have to have a medical ? all of the older generation who fly there caravans around on a saturday arvo at morabbin would have there arms up in the air and rightfully so.

 

GA would be basically dead if you did not have to get a medical. (well the lower end of GA anyway)