Cost of PPL versus RA-Aus

[skydog]

RA Aus can be cheap but!

 

Hi I started flying in a Gazelle and Jabs then converted to PPL and enjoy flying both especially the ability to fly in CTA.

 

Definitely is cheaper to learn to fly via RA then convert to GA . Check out time for me on a Piper Warrior was 2 hours then took another 5 hours to do my XC time. The PPL flight test was 3 hours.

 

Hardest part for a old slow dummy like me was the online exam for whichI just scraped thru at 81%.Info just doesnt stick in the cranium like it used to.

 

I reckon my all up cost was about the numbers Relfy has worked out, one factor though worthy of notice to those starting out flying and this will bring a reaction I am sure from JAB enthusiasts, is that learning to fly and land a Jabiru is harder than most ultra-light and single engine common aircraft so it can take some students 20 plus hours to go solo!! Thats lot of money before progressing to the next lesson..

 

Dare I say lots of schools that have Jabs like this factor as it brings good income to instructors however let me temper this by saying learning to master a jab makes you a far better pilot as the likes of C172`s and Pipers are a pussy to land compared to a Jab.

 

I generally recommend that people on a budget learn to fly in a Gazelle, Tecnam, or similar then convert to GA, Jabs etc later to save money.

 

 

[Tomo]

There's some good points there Skydog.....

 

Jump into a Drifter... that'll see if you can fly they reckon:thumb_up:

 

 

[Burlc]

I will probably get a gfpt or even a ppl eventually only because I am interested in learning aerobatics. I feel learning spins etc and how to recover would make me a better and safer pilot.

 

Unfortunately you cant do this under R-A.

 

Awesome comments SkyDog regarding Jabiru flyers, put a smile on my dial.:thumb_up:

 

 

[Simonflyer]

Spot on Skydog..

 

I couldn't agree more.I Jumped into an archer recently for the first time, and found that the inertia in it just helped me on to the ground and through any lumps and bumps in the air, whereas the tecnam just wants to fly, and due to its lighter weight can get a bit bumpy on the hot days....

 

From what i can gather from some instructors i have spoken to, us as Ra Pilots find it relatively easy to go from Ultra lights to Ga Planes,but some Ga Pilots just crack it coming the other way, because there are so many more inputs to put into the aircraft(particularly in the circuit).

 

Below is my training to date, and the Approx costs

 

Time to: Totals

 

First solo ..................................................13 hours

 

Pilot Cert(with Pax)Including the test

 

a further 6 dual and 11 solo.........................30 hours

 

XC Cert.

 

17 dual and 2.3 solo....................................49.3

 

So..

 

Around the 7.5 to 8 grand mark all up to that point.The Navs cost me a bit more than id hoped, but i had a two months break in flying due to work, and by the time i climbed back in the plane, i couldnt nav(or fly) very well at all.My Suggestion in training, is fly in blocks if you have to, but if you can get the cash together, do your training and the test i.e the whole license as close together as possible.

 

Ive also now switched into the Piper Archer to do a GFPT, and its taken about 9 hours (2 on instruments only of course) to get that done.As im Going on to an instructor rating, i think retraining and going over much of the stuff i did in my pilot cert has been invaluable.I also feel comfortable and confident in the Archer which will be good when i feel the urge to take away a few friends at a time.

 

So all up about 10 grand to gfpt, and i will do the PPL soon.I was pushed pretty hard on the Naving during my RA stuff, as i am going on to work in the industry, and they have been good on getting my standards high, and helping me take pride in my overall airmanship, and from the CFI's mouth I really only need to do a few CTA flights to knock that off, so perhaps another 10 hours to PPL,

 

So all up about 12 grand plus fees and licenses for a lot of freedom.

 

Sometimes i can look at the costs, and think it hurts, and at times it does, but if i were to go to uni, i would be doing the same thing, at similar costs but it would initially be covered by hecs, but i would still have to pay it back one day..The point im at now is Short term pain for long term gain.

 

The most important thing of all is that i bloody love it..:thumb_up:

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

Raa will have Aero's back soon Me thinks...

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

"Sometimes i can look at the costs, and think it hurts, and at times it does"

I reckon the best thing is never add it up, and NEVER let the missus know what's going on!!

[skydog]

Tomo,

 

I had a "go" of the controls of a drifter and it was a handfull. Great plane though huh!

 

 

[leestanley]

Definitely is cheaper to learn to fly via RA then convert to GA . Check out time for me on a Piper Warrior was 2 hours then took another 5 hours to do my XC time. The PPL flight test was 3 hours.

Hardest part for a old slow dummy like me was the online exam for whichI just scraped thru at 81%.Info just doesnt stick in the cranium like it used to.

Hi Skydog and thanks for the post... I am interested in where you did your PPL conversion - was it at the same school you did your RAA training? The extra hours you suggest from RAA to GA are very reasonable but I wonder if I could get away with that going to a new GA school after doing all my RAA at YTDN???

 

Lee.

 

 

[RetiredRacer]

Skydog, you bring up some interesting points here for me. We chose and are building a RV9a, and have a O-235 Lycoming motor for it. The RV9a has a 38kt stall and a MTOW of 750kg (with the 0-235 Lyc), and we have been gambling on the 760kg being in by time we get the plane built.

 

But the way things are looking we most likely will have the plane built well before the 760kg MTOW weight comes in (if it ever does), so we may need to get our ppl to fly it.

 

As I am 67yo the old sponge in the head is a little hard and does not absorb as well as it used to when I was young, I'm a little concerned I may have trouble getting my PPL.

 

I'm still going for my RAA, I have 23.5 hours up so far and as I elected to do the XC endorsment as part of my certificate, I've still got a few hours to go. The exams I've done so far I've passed (each 84%). But I have still got the BAK & XC exams to do.

 

I guess what I am asking here is, did you find getting your PPL any more difficult than getting your RAA.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I wonder if I could get away with that going to a new GA school after doing all my RAA at YTDN???

I did exactly that Lee !

 

 

[Guest Elk McPherson]

There is only 1 PPL exam, the PPL(A). Not quite correct - To sit the PPL your logbook must show a pass in the BAK exam. RAAus BAK is not set or approved by CASA and is not valid - you will need to re-sit a "GA" BAK.

 

If you have studied up for your PPL Exam, the BAK will be a doddle.... but you have to do it.

 

Cheers

[Guest brentc]

Ben, I never did the GA BAK, nor was I required to. I did my PPL exam direct because I had an RA-Aus certificate and this was under advice of the Moorabbin branch of CASA. If you have a relevant regulation number, please post this. This thread started in March 2007 and I'm not aware of any changes since.

 

 

[Guest Elk McPherson]

G'day Brent

 

Nothing has changed, except perhaps the RAAus syllabus (which I haven't seen for 2 years). I am surprised that you got that opinion from CASA. I have had the exact opposite opinion from CASA at Tamworth (but hasn't that always been the problem with CASA?)

 

I cannot give you a regulatory reference, because there is no direct regulatory reference to this particular question. However, I base my argument on the following:

 

1. You must show the Cyberexam conducting officer a pass in the BAK examination before you can sit the PPL.

 

2. A cursory flick through the CASA Day VFR Syllabus will show that the requirements for "GA BAK" are greater than those for "RAAus BAK" - in particular, the weight and balance systems and the take-off/landing performance charts are more complex.

 

Gotta run now but I'll have a dig in the rule books tomorrow at work.

 

 

[Stewart J]

Excelent info from just about all of the above. has answered a lot of questions before they where asked. (Thought of though)

 

 

[skydog]

Ra to ga

 

Lee

 

I trained in RA at Pt Cook at Oasis who also trained in GA so I went on with the same school and instructor actually.

 

You can do that at Tooradin and it will many save hours depending on how fast you get the hang of of the GA plane.

 

AS others have said you have to sit the exams and this changes all the time, you know human factors exam is in now for example so yes you sit the GA BAK exam which wasnt that hard really even for an old bugger like me then the on line exam for the PPL.

 

The hours would be less if you have your XC 'endorsement" hours flown in RA already.. Would have been cheaper if I had done it that way.

 

 

[skydog]

The PPL exam and knowledge required is about twenty times harder than RA , BAK, exams I reckon and so it should be too.

 

Weather for one, instruments, etc but the hardest to learn and remember was the stuff like working out pressure heights for taking off from elevated airfields and CAO AIP knowledge. You have to know the correct answer because you get multiple choice answers to tick where two or three are very similar in fact downright convincing , misleading, tricky.

 

I opted to pay for schooling with a chief instructor 3hrs a week over 6 weeks whilst I studied. This helped me enormously, I dont think I would have passed without that assistance as I was stressed with a high work load at the time , travelling a lot etc.

 

I think it is good to have this knowledge as it does make you a more aware pilot in lots of ways. Yes you have to pass a bi-annual medical too which motivates me to eat well and keep reasonably fit &bhealthy. Not a bad thing.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Unfortunately there's no GA training at Tooradin any more!

 

 

[skydog]

Hmmnn bummer.

 

Looks like Tyabb Mbn or LaTrobe then Lee.

 

 

[MrH]

Possible alternative - Lilydale does RAA thru to GA - if the location is close enough for you

 

H

 

 

[RetiredRacer]

Thanks for that Skydog. The stress and workload I can relate to, and yes, it is almost impossible to study during those periods.

 

 

[Guest bateo]

RetiredRacer, The PPL Exam for BAK is a little more tough than RA, having said that, you will feel more confident when flying after knowing and understanding the required syllabus for a PPL BAK standard!!

 

 

[RetiredRacer]

It sounds like it would be worth doing anyway.

 

Thanks guys

 

 

[skydog]

cost to fly

 

Some early posts in this thread talked about learning to fly at 20 bucks an hour.

 

I had a look at my old original log bookwhere I started flying dual in a C172 in 1974 for 11 dollars dual!!!!!

 

Just amazing.

 

Will we still feel the same in another 30+ years time?

 

Will we be flying much at all or just in those electric planes at 500` minute climb at 60 Kts???

 

 

[leestanley]

Thanks skydog, brentc... I think I'll go with YLIL for GA as I also want to be able to fly their Jabs (to save 20 mins each way when flying north)

 

 

[skydog]

Sounds like a good idea Lee, enjoy it.