Learning to fly a real aircraft has made me a bad flight-simmer!

[.Evan.]

This is what I'm finding!

 

Once upon a time I was pretty good at flying in the simulator. I used all kinds of tricks to ensure I was flying square circuits and flaring at the correct height, etc. While now that I'm qualified to fly the real thing, I came back to the simulator to see whether I could hone some skills and found that I am terrible at flying in the virtual world!

 

Well, not exactly terrible... But you catch my drift. Procedurally I'm much better (I would hope so, too!), but I guess I put it down to the fact that I am looking for cues that the sim just doesn't provide. It is harder to sense the sink when on final, it's more difficult to judge 45 degrees when turning base etc, etc.

 

Has anyone else found this?

 

I guess that if I spent some money on a TrackIR system, a powerful computer and a good set of controls it might be better - but I find myself thinking "Hmmm...I could buy all this stuff at ~$1500+, or I could fly for many hours in the real one."

 

 

[winsor68]

Welcome to reality Evan... lol

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

The expensive controls only make a large difference if they work perfectly. My flying school has a sim now (which I used for an exercise on climbs, takeoffs, landings and go arounds yesterday due to Wx). It has the yoke, throttle quadrant and rudder pedals and 4 screens in total. To be honest I don't really like it, far to much lag between the time to make a control input and the time the aircraft responds, you just miss out on all the feeling you get from actually flying as well and I agree it is much harder to tell if sink is occurring and such.

 

To be honest I preferred using a keyboard and mouse to play the sim (If only I could replicate those landings in real life.... so smooth). Was about to invest in a joystick to make it easier to use the rudder but the computer I was using decided to die and now I am without a PC to run FSX for the time being.

 

 

[.Evan.]

Thanks guys. Glad I'm not the only one!

 

:throw pc:The real thing is the only way to go!

 

 

[ahlocks]

Oh I don't know... The sight picture was reasonably close on FSX. The horizon looked about right, well locally it did, and the angle of the dangle for a circuit and timing was about right. Of course it was sorely lacking in through the bum feed back but hey, pretty bloody good for a computer game!

 

I've not used a flight sim for a while as the whizz bang PC that it needed to run has been retasked to more mundane things, but I still reckon there is a place for it as a training aid to practice playing with radio navaids and GPS and getting hand to eye coordination sorted.

 

Wonder of it would be any good for practicing a 1 in 60?!

 

 

[.Evan.]

...I still reckon there is a place for it as a training aid to practice playing with radio navaids and GPS and getting hand to eye coordination sorted. Wonder of it would be any good for practicing a 1 in 60?!

Well, my nav training is next on the list, so that's a real possibility!

 

 

[Powerin]

I used to practice landings a lot on a flightsim (FlightGear) long before I started training (before I ever dreamed I'd actually be doing it for real). As ahlocks says, I think it stood me in good stead for real landings just because I knew what the picture should look like. Turns were the same, even though the real stick forces felt totally different, I still instinctively knew what was needed to keep a stable level, climbing or descending turn. When my landings went bad a while ago I used flightsim to train myself to look at the end of the runway again. Seemed to work because my instructor jokingly accused me of sneaking off to another school to practice in between lessons with him. :big_grin:

 

So yes, flightsims are nothing like the real thing, but you can practice a few things that train your brain for flying. But since I've started real flying I must admit I've hardly touched flightsim and I have pulled apart my joystick to see if I could modify the spring pressure.

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

They also have merit in that if I had never have gotten FSX just for the heck of it, I probably would never have decided to take up flying for real!

 

 

[DAVID SEE]

Thanks guys. Glad I'm not the only one!:throw pc:The real thing is the only way to go!

I was fortunate enough to have had about 40mins. in the FA18 sim at Williamstown many years ago. Man that was like real stuff.

 

 

[ahlocks]

They also have merit in that if I had never have gotten FSX just for the heck of it, I probably would never have decided to take up flying for real!

You too huh?....

 

Version2 got a copy of FSX for Christmas when it was released and well, it had to be tested didn't it?

 

Got nagged that it was his present :ace:so stop hogging it, etc.. :rolleyes: and got to wondering 'what's it like for real?'....

 

Fast forward a few years and he's since discovered that girls are much more interesting that airyplanes and the ultimate flight sim, with hi fidelity graphics , is out in the shed at the airfield.

 

(and this arvo was perfect for a 'make it up as you go nav'* - almost as smooth as FSX! )

 

* There was a 1 in 60 chance that I had any idea exactly where I was on the map.

 

 

[ayavner]

I ride motorcycles, so therefore I suck at motorcycle racing games... I play guitar, and am hopeless at guitar hero.. .so not entirely surprised to find people have the same experience with flight simulators. I bet it still helps with the hand-eye coordination, and visualising procedures though?

 

 

[Akromaster]

I play Aces High II online (WW2 combat flight sim) and since learning to fly for real, my landings in the game is much better. AH2 probably has the best flight modeling IMO. In fact I've also practiced in game to fine tune my landings in real life. I use it to practice radio calls (to myself), circuits, landings, takeoffs, etc...Online mode, there are no weather conditions, but I think offline mode, you can add wind conditions.

 

AK

 

 

[M61A1]

I have pulled apart my old thrustmaster controller. I extended the stick, extended the rudder potentiometer wiring and attached the potentiometer to a set of pedals. The throttle is cable operated and is roughly where it should be on a Drifter. The end result is not perfect but I have found it to be a significant help in keeping foot eye co-ordination required for taildraggers (especially if you fly the Cub simon FSX),also not bad for glideslope picture. I think it would be nice to run two monitors, one for the panel and put the scenery on a projector, especially if I could make a curved screen. The money it would take would eat into my real flying too much.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I suck on flight sim, I don't suck quite so much in the real aircraft!

 

Or is it the other way round?

 

 

[boingk]

I generally find that I'm a keyboard and mouse kind of guy when it comes to aircraft simulators, using the keyboard for functions such as rudder, throttle position and flap / gear / weapon settings.

 

Unless you're getting feedback from a stick its really hard to see why you'd want one in the virtual world.

 

Keep it simple.

 

Now, back to my 1500hp Yakovlev over the skies of Europe...

 

- boingk

 

 

[M61A1]

I generally find that I'm a keyboard and mouse kind of guy when it comes to aircraft simulators, using the keyboard for functions such as rudder, throttle position and flap / gear / weapon settings.Unless you're getting feedback from a stick its really hard to see why you'd want one in the virtual world.

 

Keep it simple.

 

Now, back to my 1500hp Yakovlev over the skies of Europe...

 

- boingk

I have found that with a more realistic pedal/throttle/stick combo, and especially when flying "Ant's airplanes" Drifter or the FSX cub, that despite the lack of physical feel, the visual cues are stil good. Particularly with "Ant's" Boonah scenery pack that came with the drifter. It certainly gets your feet working.

 

 

[chrisb]

I ride motorcycles, so therefore I suck at motorcycle racing games... I play guitar, and am hopeless at guitar hero.. .so not entirely surprised to find people have the same experience with flight simulators. I bet it still helps with the hand-eye coordination, and visualising procedures though?

That must make me Rambo as I totally stuck at shooter games

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Hey M6,

 

I see you are using the microsoft controller and you have extended the handle and built a gadget for the throttle but what are they pedals or did you make them, I don't recognise them and then how did you set them up wiring wise?

 

David

 

 

[facthunter]

Recent "real" flying will always make a simulator feel it lacks something ( which it does no matter how good the motion is).

 

IF you do a lot of SIM flying you will learn to "tickle" it to make it play the game . The real plane doesn't respond to this nonsense so feels different, and even behaves different.. I can't imagine a flat, or any kind of screen helps your depth perception either. I'm a great fan of sims. They save lives and train emergency procedures and approaches well but they are not aeroplanes

 

 

[Virago]

I flew GA aircraft for over 30 years and accrued something like 1500 hours but I can't fly a computer flight sim to save my life. I can take off and fly around but there's no way I can shoot an approach and landing. Having said that, a couple of years ago I treated myself to an hour in the 737NG simulator in Perth. I loved that and found I could approach and land quite ok. So I guess computer flight sim programs still have a way to go compared to the real thing.

 

 

[Nightmare]

I guess that if I spent some money on a TrackIR system, a powerful computer and a good set of controls it might be better - but I find myself thinking "Hmmm...I could buy all this stuff at ~$1500+, or I could fly for many hours in the real one."

You can download and use programs like Opentrack or FaceTracknoir for free instead of the TrackIR system... it's not that bad with the right light and a reasonable webcam. Rudder peddals are a good investment.... of course nothing beats the real thing!

 

 

[gregrobertson]

I spent an hour in a A320 sim in Melbourne a few years ago. I managed take-off OK and could fly it but managed to crash land every time. There is just no feel to the things. I admit to being a dinosaur when it comes to computers but it makes me worry about many of the new airline pilots who do very little real flying and get many of their hours up in Sims. Greg.

 

 

[Butch]

When I was training I had to stop using a flight sim , the sim had far less input from the rudder pedals than the real thing.

 

I found I was trying to fly with the stick rather than coordinating with stick and rudder. My flying improved and rudder skills improved so I very rarely use the sim now.

 

All that said , I learnt a lot about the principle of how to fly , aircraft layout and what to expect when training sitting in front of a computer @ a few $ an hour compared to 200.00 in the real thing.

 

My flying on the sim is now quite average, I keep waiting for feed back from the aircraft that my sim doesn't provide,

 

cheer's Butch

 

 

[M61A1]

When I was training I had to stop using a flight sim , the sim had far less input from the rudder pedals than the real thing.I found I was trying to fly with the stick rather than coordinating with stick and rudder. My flying improved and rudder skills improved so I very rarely use the sim now.

All that said , I learnt a lot about the principle of how to fly , aircraft layout and what to expect when training sitting in front of a computer @ a few $ an hour compared to 200.00 in the real thing.

 

My flying on the sim is now quite average, I keep waiting for feed back from the aircraft that my sim doesn't provide,

 

cheer's Butch

You may find that you can alter the settings to make things more realistic. With my homemade setup, I turn the auto rudder off, all the realism settings like torque & p-factor up, control sensitivity up and null zone down. Have a crack at flying the cub after doing that, it's hard work taking off and landing.

 

 

[Butch]

Thanks M61A1,

 

I have tried playing with it in different settings, it seems to work ok in the Cesena 172 config but I was training in a Tecnam P92 and the sim for it seems quite touchy. I think it's made to simulate the fact that the Tecnam is such a light aircraft and can get very twitchy, you get very little response from the rudder with auto off and settings on the max,

 

cheer's Butch