Why are gyrocopters not administered by RAA?

[Russ]

it irks me when in 2012 some folks still harp on re gyro safety way back all those yrs..........what the h*ll has 20 plus yrs ago got to do with the "NOW".................bleedin lots, 2012, and many yrs prior, gyro design/safety/training has advanced to the point of acolaides from knowledgeable outsiders.

 

Get your backside into a current designed machine, leave that rediculous mindset of early yrs on the tarmac, and just maybe you will be educated to gyros.........the true facts.

 

Yet to see a flying machine that can yank and bank, operate safely in winds that ground most others, self maintain completely ( no level 2 mechanics needed ) transportable in the back of a ute, SAFE flying envelope around 20kts to 100 plus kts, landing speed can be zero ( engine off landings compulsory in training )......yet to see jabs etc switch the noise off to land in training etc, yet to see them compulsorarily do training in unpleasant weather conditions later in training, perhaps emergency scinareos is "self taught" at the "moment" it's needed.

 

Cutting to the nitty gritty...............too many here and elsewhere, know jack shyte re gyros ...........but harp on never the less. Did i mention, as usual, ASRA once again passed that "CASA" audit.

 

Only to happy anytime to take non gyro pilots for a circuit or 2 , not to convert.......just educate.

 

 

[Gentreau]

Little Nellie. ......

And here she is.

 

 

 

[Russ]

Russ,next time i'm in FNQ/NT...i will certainly meet with you and experience the fun of gyros...never done it before...good to see that ASRA have their act together!!

.

Any time...... any time

 

 

[hihosland]

, not to convert.......just educate.

Re education Russ, what legislative restrictions does a gyro operate under?

 

Night flight?

 

IFR possible?

 

built up areas?

 

control air space?

 

ceiling?

 

number of passengers?

 

And why are modern gyros pushers while ther early ones were tractor?

 

many thanks

 

Davidh

 

 

[Guest GraemeM]

Re education Russ, what legislative restrictions does a gyro operate under?Night flight?

IFR possible?

 

built up areas?

 

control air space?

 

ceiling?

 

number of passengers?

 

And why are modern gyros pushers while ther early ones were tractor?

 

many thanks

 

Davidh

David, have a look at asra.org.au and click on the documentation tab.

 

As for pushers - tractors, the answer could be simplicity and cost of building, visability and intended use.

 

There are some tractors around the world but the pusher is more popular.

 

Graeme.

 

 

[Russ]

Re education Russ, what legislative restrictions does a gyro operate under?Night flight?....................no

IFR possible?...................no

 

built up areas?.................yes and no

 

control air space?............no

 

ceiling?.............................10thou, with conditions

 

number of passengers?....2 max

 

And why are modern gyros pushers while ther early ones were tractor?

 

many thanks..............................

 

.....in part, early machines had monster great engines, actually the whole machines were large, see "pitcairn" and others, smaller "tractors" are beginning to come into fashion again, and setting impressive performances, but pushers are definately the "norm".........easier to build, physically smaller, to begin with.

 

Davidh

[Admin]

Russ, I think if you got more Gyro people on here at Recreational Flying you will find there may end up being a greater appreciation of Gyros by all, rather then to just have the odd post from only one or two people about them...after all, Gyros are another element of Recreational Flying...just a thought that may help the whole industry

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Probably just the way they evolved. I don't know who governed them in the 50's and 60's but there were a few mishaps. Think they were a Barnes-Wallace design with twin triumph engines and probably Enfield- McCulloch as well. Nev

Actually Barnes Wallis was the inventor of the bouncing bomb made famous for its successful demolition of the Ruhr dams and featuring in the movie The Dambusters. Former Wing Commander Ken Wallis was/is the British gyro enthusiast who built Little Nellie and numerous others. Barnes and Ken are not related.

 

I'll leave it to the fling-wing drivers to explain why, but I understand that some choppers are flown from the LHS and some may be flown from either, depending on the intended task.

The Bell 47 (and the Huey I think) had left hand command seats purely following aeroplane convention even though American MR rotation (anti-clockwise viewed from above) requires a TR thrust which results in them hovering with left skid low. So when flown solo the pilot's weight makes that condition even worse. The wonderful H269 and H369 (3 seat Hughes 300 and 5 seat Hughes 500) also stuck with convention but having articulated rather than teetering rotor systems the skid low condition isn't quite so pronounced.

 

One of the major problems with LH command seat is that when the pilot gets out of the machine it can be easy to roll the throttle on with your backside, the throttle operates in the reverse sense from that of a motorcycle.

 

I think the Jetranger first put into effect the idea of changing the command seat to the RHS, this helped with the solo left skid low thing but the main reason was to allow the pilot to operate the radio while in the hover because the pilot can put the friction on the collective and use his left hand to change frequencies from Ground to Tower to get a take-off clearance, for example, and not have to let go of the cyclic with the right hand. Ironically this is something of an annoyance to more experienced operators because with practice they can easily hover with the cyclic held between the knees and would rather not let go of the collective in the hover, particularly in gusty conditions.

 

And the change to RHS has really blown it to bits for experienced operators of European helicopters because they have RH command seat but the MR rotates in the opposite direction so they hang right skid low...

 

By the time I retired from helis I was quite happy because I was well experienced and I was flying American rotation McDonnell Douglas 500 series machines which had stayed with the LHS and were articulated, which couldn't be better in my mind, just had to be careful about the throttle when exiting. However there was one other big advantage of having the LHS for command seat, it meant the collective was on your left and so it was well away from any front seat pax, so if you hit a bit of turbulence or whatever they couldn't suddenly grab it and pull on it!

 

 

[Russ]

Agree 100 percent ian..............let's see what we can do.

 

The more we understand each others modes of aviation the better...............me, i love all flying things, but number one is fling wing.......just is

 

 

[Gentreau]

Agree 100 percent ian..............let's see what we can do.The more we understand each others modes of aviation the better...............me, i love all flying things, but number one is fling wing.......just is

Russ, one other question, what are the engine limitations for gyros in Oz ?

 

.

 

 

[Russ]

No limits..............

 

Mine is over the top............soob 180hp ( i got this thing for soobs )

 

Guys have fitted lycomings, some are now trialling yamaha sled engines with great success, viking engines are to be trialled shortly, actually gyro folks are not afraid to bolt on any engine that it's "figures" show promise........then they wait to see if it "really " does work.

 

But honestly..................nothing beats a 4 banger rotax ( power to weight is great......not to mention reliability )

 

 

[Gentreau]

So could you theoretically fit a turbine or even one or more mini-jets ?

 

 

[bones]

Yep there was going to be a turbine built i dont know if it still going ahead or not now since last year, there have been tip jets fitted for vertical t/o ect, the main thing legally regarding a gyro is there can be no pitch change on the rotors once in flight, other than that, if you "think" of something you want to build, ask and most times it would be yes i would think. ohhh and did we mention we pass audits sorry guys couldnt help that..... i feel for you guys caught up in that sh*t fight.

 

 

[Russ]

sorry, can't resist.........

 

why aren't ultralites controlled by them gyro folks. (apparantly they run a real "tight" ship )

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Russ, I think if you got more Gyro people on here at Recreational Flying you will find there may end up being a greater appreciation of Gyros by all, rather then to just have the odd post from only one or two people about them...after all, Gyros are another element of Recreational Flying...just a thought that may help the whole industry

I actually think there are more gyro people on here than on the ASRA forums, both flyers and appreciators (like me)!

 

[dazza 38]

I like the you tube Gyro video . I think that it is from a UK Gyro dealer. He disspells some of the myths. It is something like "Top Gear test on Gyro copters " Or something like that.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

My favourite Youtube video of all time Dazza!

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

Thats it Mark.Cheers