Glint Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Hi all, This might sound a bit weird but I would like to find out if others have had the same problem I seem to be having with regards to lining up the aircraft on final. I am about 3 hours into circuits and despite the work load I am really enjoying it but... I don't know if its due to 30 years of driving a car and keeping to the left of the white line on the road, but when I think I am lined up on the center line on final, my instructor says I am way to the left. To get around this I have needed to line up the rivits on the engine cowl which are to the left of the aircraft center, this then gives me what he says is correctly lined up, but it feels to me I am way to the right. He is definately correct because I tend to land to the left of the center line even using this method. I feel I need to have my head removed and put back on 20cm to the right? Is it just me or have other experienced this? Cheers Glint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 What aircraft you learning in Glint? Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Glint, I remember reading a very good explanation of this by Tony Hayes (no longer with us, may he rest in peace), specifically for the Thruster type aircraft. It came down to the position of the pilot being offset to the left of longitudinal centreline of the aircraft, so if you line up on airstrip centreline in the centre of the windscreen, you will indeed be 'offset'. You need to draw an imaginary parallel line to the fuselage line based on where you as the pilot sit. Where this imaginary line passes through the windscreen is where you should be lining up the airstrip centreline. Jeez I wish I had a sketch facility here 'cos I'm not as 'eloquent' with words as Tony was. I'll see if I can find his document where he explains this. You may like to check out all his posts in the Thruster section here, I'm pretty sure that's where I saw it. Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 OK found it amongst my documents on the computer. I hope I'm not infringing any copyright by including the file here. (I am including only part of the document I have, that part dealing with the problem in question) I don't believe I am as Tony published this in a public forum anyway. Ian, please remove this if you think I'm infringing please. Pud Tony\'s Parallax explanation.pdf Tony\'s Parallax explanation.pdf Tony\'s Parallax explanation.pdf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glint Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 Hi Pud, I am learing in a C172. Thanks so much for the explanation and the Tony Hayes article. Seems like I am not going mad! I will try out his suggestion. It sounds similar to what I have been doing with the rivits on the cowling. I appreciate your input. Cheers Glint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68volksy Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I read somewhere a little while back that it should be you, the pilot, that you're trying to line up on the centre line and not necessarily the aircraft. Helped very much in the first dozen hours or so. Most of the small aircraft we fly you're only going to be a foot or so off the centre line when you touch down - your right elbow sits pretty much in the middle of the aircraft. The single/tandem seaters this is a no-brainer. If you line up those big white dotted lines and then extend them towards you they should hit you right between the eyes. That said there's been many a time i've come to understand why they make runways considerably wider than an aircrafts undercarriage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongie Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Glint, your definitly not alone... I had quite a bit oftrouble with this.. and my instructor always tells me to put my bum on the center line... practice it when you are taxiing.. should be the same "sight picture" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Fly a plane with tandem seating arrangement, problem solved 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSarcasm Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Just do what I did - learn at a field with a runway without a centre line! I didn't land at a field with one of those newfangled centre lines :big_grin: until I was doing my navs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glint Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Thanks for all the great input. At least I now know that it is not just me and this is something that will come with a bit more experience. Cheers Glint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSarcasm Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 At least I now know that it is not just me and this is something that will come with a bit more experience. You can pretty much guarantee that if you're having problems with something, at least one person (usually a lot more than one) on this site went through the same thing :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Evan. Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hey Glint, While learning to control the aircraft, my instructor used to tell me to "Make the centre line run between your legs..." Obviously, this would make the aircraft a bit to the right - but as was mentioned earlier, you will only be a foot or so out. Keep at it! You're not alone! I'm sure many people (including me) have grappled with this issue at some stage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Put the line between your legs. ;-) That works when you change aircraft types too, rather than using rivet lines. Although in the Pitts I always landed left, I couldn't see much of the runway let alone the centre line, so I landed the same distance from the left runway edge at every runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Evan. Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Put the line between your legs. ;-) That works when you change aircraft types too, rather than using rivet lines. However, maybe not if you find yourself flying a 747 or something! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glint Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 If I ever find myself flying a 747, the passengers wil be the ones holding their heads between their legs as they search for their light and whistle!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Lining things up, as has been described is a good way to start, but what you are doing is relying on a no cross-wind situation while you are slowly embedding the "sight picture" in your mind. When you start doing cross-wind approaches, your approach line will not match the direction the aircraft is pointing, but it will be the line in which the aircraft is approaching the runway. It is the same with engine revs. You start out by setting specific revs for climb and descent, but after a while you get a feel for the aircraft and know the feel and sound. It'll all come with hours under the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Lining things up, as has been described is a good way to start, but what you are doing is relying on a no cross-wind situation while you are slowly embedding the "sight picture" in your mind. When you start doing cross-wind approaches, your approach line will not match the direction the aircraft is pointing, but it will be the line in which the aircraft is approaching the runway.It is the same with engine revs. You start out by setting specific revs for climb and descent, but after a while you get a feel for the aircraft and know the feel and sound. It'll all come with hours under the belt. Exactly david, we are assuming calm conditions here. I had the same problem as Glint when I started too, why is that I wonder? You do the right thing automatically in a car - I don't line the road up with the centre of the windscreen, rather I use the right side of the windscreen to look through at my aiming point. And I drag my ar2e along the road right where I want it to be - buggar that between the legs stuff:loopy: Anyway Glint, as others have said; practise, practise, it will all come together soon. Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Evan. Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Lining things up, as has been described is a good way to start, but what you are doing is relying on a no cross-wind situation while you are slowly embedding the "sight picture" in your mind. When you start doing cross-wind approaches, your approach line will not match the direction the aircraft is pointing, but it will be the line in which the aircraft is approaching the runway.It is the same with engine revs. You start out by setting specific revs for climb and descent, but after a while you get a feel for the aircraft and know the feel and sound. It'll all come with hours under the belt. You're right David! I should have also mentioned that it is only for normal approaches. Anything other than that requires a slightly different concept. However, while you are learning the conditions should be as normal as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Glint, I assume you end up on the left side of center. Try forgetting the center line and aim for the right hand side, as far right as you dare. Odds are, you'll end up on the center line. BTW, are you looking at the end of the runway on late finals? I'm guessing not. Perspective should automatically put you on the center. The tendency is to look down too much trying to find that illusive touch down point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 In a Pitts or a C-180 or even a Tiger Moth, once you have flared, you can't see out the front anyhow so you are using the edge of the runway predominantly, as a guide,(LHS generally). Lots of pilots develop a tendency to line up/land towards one side or the other and often don't realise it till it is pointed out to them. In a long plane you have to get fairly well towards the upwind side when on the approach in a strong crosswind, and as you decrab you can reduce the offset, and if you float a bit you still have a fair bit of runway to use , before getting too close to the downwind side. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glint Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 I think your right Doug I am focusing a lot on the touch down point perhaps looking at the end of the runway a bit earlier will help. I am really suprised just how much input has been provided. It must be a more common issue than I had thought. Here I was thinking I was a freak! Cheers Glint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Put the line between your legs. ;-) Good advice for Glint - I also suggest talking to your instructor again about some of the points in the briefing he would've given to you about aiming point on approach, when to start the flare and where to look. Although in the Pitts I always landed left, I couldn't see much of the runway let alone the centre line, so I landed the same distance from the left runway edge at every runway. Let me guess who taught you to fly a Pitts .... trouble with that technique is that some runways are quite narrow. We kept our Pitts at one airfield for a while but moved because it was too scary - so narrow that we could not see anything of the runway at all, just the big ditch either side. In a Pitts (not a Tiger) look straight ahead and use peripheral vision to see a bit of the runway each side - keeps you near the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pookemon Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I think your right Doug I am focusing a lot on the touch down point perhaps looking at the end of the runway a bit earlier will help.I am really suprised just how much input has been provided. It must be a more common issue than I had thought. Here I was thinking I was a freak! Cheers Glint. My instructor tells me to look up at the other end of the runway just before round out. And to get me on the centre line he got me to land a couple of times on the right of the centre line - deliberately - and then when he told me to land on the centreline - it all fell into place. Another thing he got me to do was fly just above the runway and actually turn the aircraft from one side of the runway, to the next and then back to get a feel for the fact that you can still steer near the ground (I was determined that I wasn't going to turn that close to the ground - so I was determined that where-ever I lined up - that's where I was landing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 My instructor tells me to look up at the other end of the runway just before round out. And to get me on the centre line he got me to land a couple of times on the right of the centre line - deliberately - and then when he told me to land on the centreline - it all fell into place. Another thing he got me to do was fly just above the runway and actually turn the aircraft from one side of the runway, to the next and then back to get a feel for the fact that you can still steer near the ground (I was determined that I wasn't going to turn that close to the ground - so I was determined that where-ever I lined up - that's where I was landing). Agree with this. Better to be right of the centreline so you have it in view even thru the most nose high flare. Works perfectly in high stance taildraggers like C180/185. Keep just to the right of the centreline on any taxiway so as to simulate the runway situation. Do the same for take-offs. happy days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cficare Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 ....and take your wallet out of your left or right back pocket....it only makes u sit "not quite straight"...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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