Runway Holding Position Markings

[Captain]

I have always though that aircraft must stop at Runway Holding Position Markings on a taxiway before entering the Runway at non ATC airfields.

 

Is that still correct?

 

And if so, why is it that RPT aircraft never stop there at non ATC airfileds to check the runway, unless there is an aircraft in the circuit?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Whether there are markings or not its basic good airmanship to pull up prior to entering the runway, in such a way as you have good visibility of the live and dead base sides of the circuit. You dont enter the runway until satisfied that you can do so without causing a go around and you have transmitted intentions.

 

I presume for RPT Ops, as has been inferred many times with marginal profitability what ever minimises $$ impacts are likely to get a guersey as does, for example, the long straight in approach no matter the apparent densisty of others in circuit.... obviously, as per tiger, the real question is where does that grey area of shortcut finish and dangerous behavious start....As CASA has shown if you play in the grey then ya takes ya chances.....

 

Andy

 

 

[Tomo]

If it's all clear - and they have had a sufficient look both ways, I don't see any operational reason to actually 'stop' and then look. Depending on the aircraft, I usually do a small 'S' turn to look both ways prior to the stop line. Large aircraft require significant forces to stop, and start rolling again, so I guess they are just trying to illuminate that.

 

If they fail to look, then that's a big problem. I'm not sure if it's a requirement to stop or not, more like a give way I thought.

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

If it's all clear - and they have had a sufficient look both ways, I don't see any operational reason to actually 'stop' and then look..

You'e right Tomo. Once they start to roll, the big boys won't stop unless/untill they have to, and the young fellahs driving the regional turbos are in the main, training/programing themselves to one day operate the big jets. So they won't stop unless they need to either. And with a set of eyes on each side, they can see better than you or I can while doing our S turns whether it's clear or not. Having said that, they are humans too, and sometimes humans make mistakes. So watch them like you would anybody else.

 

Keep the sunny side up,

 

Wayne

 

 

[turboplanner]

Check out the near misses on the ATSB website, and you'll be surprised just how many there are. You're in an invidious position there Captain, I thought there had been some retraining.

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

I guess what we're trying to say is: Not stopping at the holding point is not necessarily bad airmanship. Not broadcasting your intentions and checking both ways before crossing the holding point (read: entering the runway) is bad airmanship.

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Regardless of the "rule" that may govern this, I was taught to "stop" and place the a/c so that I can see the final approach path of the active RWY. I still do it to this day as it's no skin off my nose stopping briefly and "checking it out". There are A/C that sometimes operate without radios at the airfield so I dont like to rely on having heard their intentions. Better to be safe than sorry. Oh and I also am still looking out when i'm actually entering the RWY and turning to line up...

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

Regardless of the "rule" that may govern this,... Better to be safe than sorry. Oh and I also am still looking out when i'm actually entering the RWY and turning to line up...

I don't see anything wrong with stopping at the Holding Point Brett... Because Gunnedah has its own CTAF (1274), we sometimes get guys arriving with 1267 selected and as a result, we don't know about them until we see them. For that reason, I teach my students to do an S turn while taxiing and look both ways before they enter the runway, because the guy on 1267 could be using either runway.