Microlight Syndicate

[Arnaud]

Hi,

 

I'm nearly there...solo flight on a trike and already there is another challenge looming: soon I'll have to purchase my own wings !

 

I could raid the savings account and purchase a brand new Redback but I would prefer an Outback with a 582. Having said that my training has mainly be on a Outback 912 with Cruze wing, and that would suit me fine !

 

The problem is that it doesn't make sense at all to purchase on your own something you'll be lucky to use 50~60 hours per year and unlike real estate doesn't appreciate in value. To any outsider the obvious solution is group ownership or syndication, but as soon as I mention the word to any microlight pilot I always get the same response: "It doesn't work !". I cannot comprehend that people who are prepared to get airborne in rather flimsy structures made of aluminium tubing and fabric find the idea of shared ownership too risky !

 

Could you please enlighten me about the pros & cons of syndicates.

 

Any positive experiences out there ?

 

I live and fly out of York, Western Australia, is there anyone out there who would like to explore the matter further.

 

Arnaud

 

Arnaud

 

 

[Guest Decca]

Hi again Arnaud. Gone solo already? I haven't much experience with anything let alone syndicates but as you don't have any response yet someone has made a business out of this & in case you haven't seen ad in RA Aus mag; Flyshare International www.flyshare.com.au caters for RA Aus AND GA pilots. There's a photo of a trike on there website. However there are currently no shares available. May be worth a look. Decca.

 

 

[Brett]

theoretically I wouldn't mind doing something like this but i think the big issue with most ppl is proximity to the airstrip and aircraft....ie ,,,,i'm 520 k away from york so seems somewhat impractical for someone in my situation b4 you even start to work out logistics of the syndicate ,,,,,

 

btw if you are planning on being at white gum farm over easter I may meet you there....

 

 

[Guest Peggy2]

Used trikes can be purchased at a reasonable price these days so in my opinion it would be better to have the freedom of owning and controlling ones own.

 

How would a co-owner feel if they were the one that damaged the trike causing extensive damage and the other co-owners were forced to partly finance the repairs? then there could be times when two of the co-owners would have plans to use the trike in the same time frame.:black_eye:

 

Or one of the co-owners flies many hours and another doesn't fly much at all, the maintainance costs would have to be sorted out fairly.

 

Too many hassles I think.....then there's the wives to pacify:sad:

 

 

[Arnaud]

I've been in formal and informal partnerships in the past and it all comes down to attitude: if every partner puts in 105% of what is required of them, then great things happen. If it doesn't work out and one partner is not happy then the best option is to refund the initial outlay, with a smile.

 

Partnerships in aviation do work, the best example is the Airborne team.

 

Straight to the point: Anyone out there ( I mean within 100 kms of York, Western Australia) interested in exploring the possibility of group ownership of a new or near new Airborne trike ?

 

 

[Guest kimbo]

Hi Arnaud,

 

Just wondering where you fly from in York? I spend a bit of time down at York as I have family in the area.

 

Kimbo

 

 

[Arnaud]

I fly from White Gum Farm, a very nice set up with brand new hangar, briefing room, etc...

 

Location, close to Greenhills: 31o52.026'S 116o56.342E

 

Two sets of runways:17-35 (1500m) and 10-28 (1300m) and the more challenging (lots of tall trees) 14-32 (650m) and 07-25 (450m).

 

All this surrounded with lots of grazed or cropped paddocks so as a novice you feel pretty safe.

 

I feel pretty fortunate to have such a facility in my area, so I support it to the max.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Congrats on the solo & I hope your comment about "flimsy structures made of aluminium tubing and fabric" was meant in jest ? Its NOT true but if you believe it is why are you flying them ?

 

Syndicates can make a lot of sense - it depends on the people involved. An XTC 582 at YCAB where I fly is shared by the 2 owners and there haven't been any problems between them. Lots of trikes in the UK are in syndicates but an issue here is that its not possible to get insurance. This would complicate things if 1 of the owners has a mishap.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Mike CMB]

Hi Arnaud,

 

I will meet you soon up at white Gum my wife Carolyn and I had our TIF last week and we are hooked. I have some previous flying experience in gliders and power.

 

WE will start training in a few weeks when I get back from work up North.

 

I have previously been involved in syndicate aircraft I had a glider pictured below.

 

 

I found syndicates to work very well and as I usualy work away its easy to plan the sharing of the aircraft.

 

When thinking of which trike to buy I cant decide betwen the XT 912 and the 912 outback. I like the idea of being able to do long cross country but i also want to be able to land on beaches and short strips.

 

The best compromise is to get both one of each. Now this is not very cost effective to do on your own unless you have had a lotto win recently.

 

However if a syndicate of 3 or possibly even 4 was formed and purchased these aircraft the cost of buying and maintaining these aircraft is reduced considerably.

 

These two aircraft below which I am sure you are familiar with could both be acquired for around $100,000 around $33,000 each the price of a two stroke.

 

 

 

Because I work away I am only able to fly one weekend in three leaveing the other members plenty of flying options. Even on the weekends I am home I can only fly one aircraft.

 

Having two aircraft also allows the syndicate to put one on line for rent to other pilots. The income derived helping to pay hangar and maintenance costs.

 

I am sure there are other benifits not all commercial like having someone else to fly cross country with and the increased safety this brings.

 

I will certainly be having a good look at syndication in the next few months after i get my licence.

 

MIKE:)

 

 

[Arnaud]

Hello Mike,

 

I've almost given up on syndicates; lots of talk by interested parties but no action.Last monday I paid a $5,000 deposit on a new Redback.

 

If you're really keen, I'm sure that the production slot could be put on hold or amended to a 912 but we would have to be quick.

 

WIN Insurance is willing to ensure the trike, including ab-initio training of a partner.

 

Having flown the two aircraft in question, I would go for a new 912 Outback with disk brakes. The drum brakes are shocking.

 

I haven't won Lotto yet but I am sure the Redback will provide me lots of joy.

 

Ring me on 0429 412 200 or email [email protected] if you want to discuss further.

 

Arnaud

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Arnaud

 

I find that in normal operations brakes arent that important. The most positive braking affect in a microlight is to pull the bar in to your stomach just after touchdown. The wing then acts as a giant speed brake. After that has done its job I'll use the foot brake if needed, and mostly it isnt.

 

Just bear in mind that the speed brake affect mimicks neg G in the air. Use only if your wing is well rated for neg G, and Airborne wings are.

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest rosco triker]

Hey Crammie good to see you followed through with the trike flying, I am flying my own outback at Geraldton out of farmers paddocks and am having a ball six hours flying in the last week.Greetings Arnuad I believe that joint ownership in any thing you derive pleasure from requires fair minded involvment from all concerned ( give and take ) for me I find having ownership for my own convience is paramount but not all are the same good luck with your answer as you will in the end be the only one to decide fly safe fly far. Rosco Triker

 

 

[bruce01]

Hi Arnaud,

 

Can you give me some more info on Win insurance? Do you have a contact number?

 

Thanks,

 

Bruce.

 

 

[Arnaud]

World Insurance Network Ph: 02 9409 5200 www.wininsurance.com.au

 

I used the services of our Insurance Brokers: Central Insurance in South Perth

 

www.centralins.com.au

 

These guys deserve our support as none of the insurance companies with big glossy ads in the magazines will insure trikes.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Arnaud:

 

My experience with any kind of group undertaking has shown me that it's all down to the personalities involved. If the personalities work together constructively and communicate well, then just about any undertaking is possible. However, from experience this is rarely the case for 100% of the group. Almost always there is a foot dragger, malcontent or control freak in the group which puts pressure on the remaining members. My preference is to avoid such financial committments with others unless I know them VERY well and would trust them with my money.

 

Just my two cents worth.