Birdstrike !!!!

[Guest Maj Millard]

Awoke last Monday morning to a great front-page photo in the local paper of a Cessna 182 skydiving jumplane firmly planted in a canefield. There were three other great photos further on, showing the damage to the aircraft fom different angles, mostly from the impact with the sugercane.

 

Pilot Alan who operates the local skydiving center and also doubles as a jump pilot, had just taken off from Ayr with a load of potential student parachutists, when at around 800 ft a magpie goose (he suspects) impacted the windscreen full on. One photo in the paper shows the screen completely gone.

 

In Alans' words " the aircraft seemed to loose quite a bit of wing lift with the screen gone (it ended up in pieces in the cabin), before I knew it we were down to 400ft, even with full power, and then at 200 I decided to stick it straight ahead into the cane" .

 

Alan pulled off a good outcome with only minor injuries to his passengers, some of whom just thought it was one hell of an 'extreme' ride dude !.

 

The nicely written front-page article in the well read local paper was all positive, and if anything, should only further promote his local active skydiving business which was already booming anyway.

 

Alan who is not a high-time pilot feels he has learnt heaps from the experience, and no doubt it will make him a better pilot in the future.

 

The magpie geese around Ayr are well know, and I have had to hold up a takeoff there myself to wait their passage across the runway in front of me. Although not a night-bird in the true sense they will and do fly at night.

 

Additionally in recent weeks with the arrival of spring I have passed a lot of wedge-tail eagles on recent local flights, often circling in pairs, so when you spot one you find the second real quick.

 

Alan was a bit surprised with the noticable loss of lift without the windscreen, and thinks it probabily destroyed any lift created by the fuselage itself.................your comments please, has any one else experienced a full windscreen departure with resultant loss of lift ??.....................................................................Maj.....with thanks to Alan Moss pilot of C182 VH-TIS

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Additionally , it's makes me a little happier that I replaced the windscreen in the Lightwing with 3ml lexan instead of the 1.5 ml, which is not available anymore. Still, I feel that a full on hit with any large bird staight onto the windshield would probabily always cause damage (or destroy) most windshields, especially after it has been accelerated through the prop !!!..........................................................Maj...........

 

 

[Guernsey]

Thr airflow would normaly flow smoothly around the cockpit and windscreen giving good lift under the wing near the wing root, however, with the windscreen gone the air would be very turbulent in this area and lift would be lost. Alan.

 

 

[facthunter]

You would lose some lift for sure, but I reckon the drag increase and the resultant loss of speed would give the impression of loss of lift. All of a sudden you would need about 40% percent more power to achieve the same speed. With a high AUW, more noticeable too... Nev

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I also wonder if there is an impact on the effectiveness of elevator / rudder as I suspect air that is already turbulent due prop, would likely be worse if a missing canopy/ windshield is added to the mix.

 

I cant remeber the aircraft type but I recall a story about a flight from Perth to SA in a low wing, but fast for an RAA aircraft. As I recall he lost the entire buble canopy and the aircraft became uncontrollable, dont recall the details other than he and his wife survived unhurt from memory but the aircraft didnt fair so well.

 

Andy

 

 

[facthunter]

Birdstrikes are to be avoided at all times. They are seriously dangerous. I had a distant relative killed by one. (In an ultralight). It's one of the reasons that I don't believe in stooging along at high cruise speeds. There does seem to be more wedgetails around, lately. While this is a good sign for the environment, it's a hazard for the aviator. You can find them at 8,000' or more altitude. Nev

 

 

[sfGnome]

Interesting to compare this one with the recent discussion about the Sportstar with the canopy that opened in flight. If I recall correctly, the consensus there was that it would happily continue with the canopy open/gone, and the main danger was the pilot being distracted. Is the difference that the Cessna has a large space continuing from the cockpit all the way back to the tail (in this case filled with would-be jumpers) where the airflow would be turbulent, whereas the Sportstar possibly has a wall behind the pilot's head so the air just flows up and over?

 

 

[Litespeed]

Ouch!

 

How thick is the screen on a 172?

 

Having copped a Galah into the face- fortunately with a full face helmet on a bike at 130kmh, I know it can be very serious.

 

Felt like been sledgehammered, very shocking and disorientating. Sure glad I had a helmet on- would have been fatal without it.

 

Mother Nature is always trying to kill us- beware.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The Cessna does have a bulkhead at the rear of the cabin which should keep the air out of the tail. Pilot reported to me that he decided not to drop any flap in order to increase lift, the birdstrike was at around 800ft remember, with a fully loaded aircraft.

 

There was too much going on with comments from all the persons on board, some helpfull at the time, some not. There were also bits of windscreen and dead goose in the cabin also. He instead concentrated on keeping airspeed on the guage, and finding a place to put it down, as it was apparent he wasn't going to make it back to the airport.

 

Remember this pilot was not high time, and this was his first major incident, well done with the outcome I reckon.

 

He also told me he was quite surprised at the obvious loss of lift, and that there didn't seem to be any significent turbulance over the tail surfaces, affecting control.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Nev, I've also had my share of wedge-tail encounters, but I agree it is always good to see them, and marvel at their flying style, especially when viewing them in their envioriment from an aircraft.

 

On a recent short ten minute flight from Starke field to my base at Montpelier, I spotted no less than three pair at my altitude. They seem to sense you coming and stay out of your way, although they don't give up their airspace easily. During one flight years ago I had a large one pass under my wingtip at 5,200 ft. I was in a GA Lightwing with a single -strutted wing. I wonder how I would have fared had it hit the single wingstrut....I've had western pilots tell me they see them at much higher altitudes often ...............................................Maj...

 

 

[turboplanner]

I agree with you Maj he did well to keep his cool and go straight down, we've lost a few who spent time thinking and stalled

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The screen on a Cessna would have to be at least 1/4 inch (5-6ml?) thick by my estimate. An older screen of course would be somewhat weaked by age...............Maj...

 

And I agree Nev he did well on this one. Alan and I have recently been chatting often on a skydiver level as I am an old jumper also. It is nice now to also be comparing notes on a pilot to pilot level.

 

 

[Guest aussie carl]

Far out !! Nice emergency landing. and for once the media teel it as it is and not let the truth get in the road of a good story. I was thinking the not so much the loss of lift but the massive increase in drag as the airflowthrough the airfram has been disrupted. Remember the side door on a jump truck is open. If the side door had not been open then airflow would have not been disrupted as much.

 

In today Coffs paper there was a skydiving article (front page) and the article was positive, no one injured just a chute that didn't open and the second had to be used.

 

 

[naremman]

In a test of memory, I recall about 40 years the pilot of a Baron have a wedgie come through the screen on final at Barrow Island, clobbering the pilot. The pilot subsequently landed safely, though I think he ended up losing the sight in one eye. That was not the end of it. The wedgie was not dead, and was keen on retribution.

 

I still chuckle at an incident of the 1984 Airtourer Simpson Desert Flight. Approaching Birdsville Stan Tilley decided to descend to check out the birdlife on the Diamantina River. Descent followwd by a very smart ascent (well as quick a climb away in a 115 Hp Airtourer) as Stan decided a pelican vs Airtourer collision that far from Hobart was not prudent!! Dunno what Bonnie's input would have been at that point.

 

 

[Bird]

Birdstrikes are to be avoided at all times. They are seriously dangerous. I had a distant relative killed by one. (In an ultralight). It's one of the reasons that I don't believe in stooging along at high cruise speeds. There does seem to be more wedgetails around, lately. While this is a good sign for the environment, it's a hazard for the aviator. You can find them at 8,000' or more altitude. Nev

Hi Nev

We consult to the aviation industry on birdstrike issues and one fact we float out there is that in Australia on 2 people have been killed by birdstrikes (RAAF pilot and crewman in F111 Evans head mid 70's). Sorry to hear about you distant relative, but is this 1 accident our records have missed?

 

Cheers, Phil

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Birdstrikes are to be avoided at all times.

They're not really something you intend to have when you have it. It can happen very fast with no time to avoid it.

 

You can find them at 8,000' or more altitude.

They can also be found at 3200ft (as I found out the hard way)

 

 

[frank marriott]

A press quote - 6POB in a C182

 

????????????????

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

A press quote - 6POB in a C182????????????????

Maybe they were playing a variation of 'How many people can you fit in a Mini?'

 

 

[facthunter]

Bird, U/L events don't get too well investigated. It's done by the police (if at all). It's on my wifes side and the info came from people who are not involved in official investigation circles, who were known to the pilot.

 

Darky, prior to your incident with the bird I'll bet you wouldn't have given birds a second thought. You will be more aware of them now and will think about them more, and dare I say it keep your eyes peeled.

 

Is you know, they can do major damage to even more substantial planes, than many we fly. Seagulls, pelicans (more so) are a hazard also. Flying over swamps at low altitude is a bit of a bad idea too. The faster you go the more the effect. Twice the speed gives 4 times the energy. Nev

 

 

[pudestcon]

Birds can be bloody hard to see Nev. I was reviewing video footage of a flight I did on Saturday, on late downwind I noticed a wedgie come into view to the port side and below my altitude, then disappear from view port side as well - thing was, I was completely unaware the eagle was there until I saw the video. Sure makes you think.

 

Pud

 

 

[facthunter]

Your slow speed is a help Pud. You might even get a birdstrike from behind. Seriously though, I found in thrusters/drifters they are likely to attack you (at certain times of the year, breeding), because they can easily keep up with you, and see you as a threat. Nev

 

 

[Exadios]

Birdstrikes are to be avoided at all times. They are seriously dangerous. I had a distant relative killed by one. (In an ultralight). It's one of the reasons that I don't believe in stooging along at high cruise speeds. There does seem to be more wedgetails around, lately. While this is a good sign for the environment, it's a hazard for the aviator. You can find them at 8,000' or more altitude. Nev

I've had a very near miss at 10000'.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Many years ago I had a very serious Bird Strike which hit me full in the face and temporarily blinded me.

 

I was trying to fly low at the time and she told me to keep my hands to myself.

 

She was bigger than a Pelican. .

 

Handyman Alan.

 

 

[Alpi]

Some are more persistant than others !!!

 

Hope the link works.

 

 

 

[Tomo]

I hit a magpie in the Drifter once with one of the stay wires... was just a puff of feathers, may have had two magpies after... no damage to the aircraft.