Guest nunans Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Is it just me or are there alot of Savannahs for sale recently? mostly vg's and kit built. Are all the owners building XL versions and trying to offload the older planes? or is it just because they are a nice plane to build so owners are building and selling to build another? There are Six for sale in this months members market alone. Is this cause for concern for a prospective buyer or just a great opportunity?
Kyle Communications Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Great opportunity....I think you will find they are upgrading to the XL for the much more room or the S version for a bit more "style"....If you are a big guy the VG is a little squeezey with 2 up but if your a little person then grab one for sure. The XL has a lot more room inside...it is 4 inches longer inside and 5 inches wider due to the bubble doors and slightly wider main cabin Mark
Guest nunans Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Ahh, so it's the XLs with more room that's causing the mass exit from the standard VG model. So do the bubble doors from the XL fit the VG? I suppose not or alot of owners would be changing doors rather than selling the aircraft. Thanks for the info Mark and goodluck with your first flights (if you haven't already flown it)
Kyle Communications Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I am not sure if the new doors fit...I would think not as the cabin is slightly wider so the angle of the door frames would probably be different. I have been in both types of Sav and the XL is certainly more comfortable for my size. I picked up my engine on Friday and got it mounted last night I am hoping to have it ready to fly either around xmas or early in the new year. There are a lot of factory built Savs coming in too I helped unpack 2 of them on Friday also 6 engines came in so there are a lot of new XL and S version Savs being built. If you haven't had a fly of one you need to try to get it organised you will be hooked they are such a joy to fly and their performance is fantastic especially if you want to go somewhere out of the ordinary...as John Gilpin said they are the 4wd of aircraft with their stole performance and a 90knot cruise Mark
Ballpoint 246niner Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Mine left Italy today and will be in our school hopefully by Xmas,With tecnams,CT's,a Texan and Savannah S we have an awesome range available for students and potential buyers to asses and learn on.Cant wait till the big orange chrissie present arrives. The 914 is going in a friends dads plane. 2
turboplanner Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Is it just me or are there alot of Savannahs for sale recently? mostly vg's and kit built.Are all the owners building XL versions and trying to offload the older planes? or is it just because they are a nice plane to build so owners are building and selling to build another? There are Six for sale in this months members market alone. Is this cause for concern for a prospective buyer or just a great opportunity? Could have a bit to do with the low cruise speed, and so higher cost per nm too
eightyknots Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Is it just me or are there alot of Savannahs for sale recently? mostly vg's and kit built.Are all the owners building XL versions and trying to offload the older planes? or is it just because they are a nice plane to build so owners are building and selling to build another? There are Six for sale in this months members market alone. Is this cause for concern for a prospective buyer or just a great opportunity? Could someone please help us with the link to this "members market"? I don't seem to be able to find it. I would like to check out the supply of Savannahs for sale.
David Isaac Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Could have a bit to do with the low cruise speed, and so higher cost per nm too Not so sure Tubz, If you wanted cruise speed you certainly would not buy STOL and if you wanted true STOL, which is clearly why Savvy owners buy Savvys, you cannot have high cruise speed, the two are mutually exclusive in this low weight, low cost end of town. If the cost per NM was an issue they would not be upgrading to the XL as it gives only a slight increase in cruise. Most STOLs in our category are limited to 80 to 85 Knots cruise at 75% power and also have limitations on maneuvering speeds because of the high lift wing and the high loads it can induce at low speed. Big legs and big wheels increase the utility of the aircraft but again cost you a few more knots at cruise.
eightyknots Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 How do we get to this "members' market"?
Kyle Communications Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 80Knots http://www.auf.asn.au/market/index.html This is the link but its not working this morning maybe they are working on the site Turbo I can tell you first hand I helped unload the latest container just over a week ago and there was 6 engines....so that means thats at least 6 aircraft soon to fly built from kits and there were 2 new Savannah S factory builts (which have the bigger cabin) in the container and in another month there are another 2 factory builds and probably more engines coming as well. So if you do the numbers there are quite a few aircraft coming online soon. I am not privy to how many of course I know what I have seen. I doubt in this financial climate you could say that about pretty much any other aircraft type in the RAA area. If you want speed you get a esqual or similar. Most people think 80 to 90 knots of cruise is fine when you get a stall of 26 knots. I bought mine for its stol performance for what I want it for. I mean lets face it most high performance RAAus aircraft don't do more than 100 to 110 knots so that really only means you go another 10 or 20 miles further in 1 hour so if you chasing someone in a faster aircraft what is the real time difference?......5 or 8 mins or so every hour....in my book I think the ability to land on a postage stamp is well worth that 5 mins Mark 2
Guest Maj Millard Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Nothing wrong with the cruise speed on any of the Savannahs. Casino to Townsville via the inland route in 9 hours ain't bad, and it would probabily take a similiar time or more, in many other aircraft types. It is because many are stepping up to the XL or S models, and just shows how many VGs have already been built. The kit is at a very advanced stage of production, is computer drilled and very quick to put together, and relativly cheap, which is why you will see alot more around. If you can pick up a well built VG, with a low time 100hp in it, long range tanks and tundra tires, you'd be getting the deal of the century...........especially for around $59,000 which is what the attached one in the photo cost a friend of mine a couple of years back. Performance wise at each end of the envelope, they are unmatched except maybe by the Foxbat, and they make the perfect training aircraft.....if I had spare cash I'd be grabbing one for the daughter !..and teaching her to fly in it................................Maj...
Guest nunans Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Could have a bit to do with the low cruise speed, and so higher cost per nm too I don't think i buy the low cruise speed reason, surely when someone buys a savvy, 701, storch etc they can see it's made for flying low and slow out of paddocks not commuting between airports, and as for the higher cost per nm well i guess it depends what you compare it too. Lets say the PA28, don't they burn about 10 g/hr for 105 knots? is that less $ per nm than a 912 burning mogas flying at 75 knots? Maybe some get tired of the slower pace and reconsider thier need for stol? I'm not sure, it might be like everyone buying dual cab 4wd's that never see a dirt road. Some of these savvys might just get flown in and out of major aerodromes in which case the owners might be swapping to J-230's for the faster ride. But I'm not convinced of that, Maj I see what you're saying about the quick build being the reason there are so many VG's around and Yep I think a $60K low hour example would be good buying at the expense of somebody upgrading to the XL. and there are plenty of good ones comming up for sale each month. By the time you bought a new 912, vg kit, prop, paint, instruments, etc and valued your build time at even $10/hr, you'd have to be loosing a fair bit of cash to sell at the $50 - $60 that they go for!
eightyknots Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 I don't think i buy the low cruise speed reason, surely when someone buys a savvy, 701, storch etc they can see it's made for flying low and slow out of paddocks not commuting between airports, and as for the higher cost per nm well i guess it depends what you compare it too. Lets say the PA28, don't they burn about 10 g/hr for 105 knots? is that less $ per nm than a 912 burning mogas flying at 75 knots?Maybe some get tired of the slower pace and reconsider thier need for stol? I'm not sure, it might be like everyone buying dual cab 4wd's that never see a dirt road. Some of these savvys might just get flown in and out of major aerodromes in which case the owners might be swapping to J-230's for the faster ride. But I'm not convinced of that, Maj I see what you're saying about the quick build being the reason there are so many VG's around and Yep I think a $60K low hour example would be good buying at the expense of somebody upgrading to the XL. and there are plenty of good ones comming up for sale each month. By the time you bought a new 912, vg kit, prop, paint, instruments, etc and valued your build time at even $10/hr, you'd have to be loosing a fair bit of cash to sell at the $50 - $60 that they go for! Nunans, you posed a number of possible reasons. What is your own theory then, as to why so many people are selling Savannahs?
Guest nunans Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Well I don't know for sure that's why I asked the question, but i now believe Mark and Maj are on the money, it must be that the XL is the way to go and the owners of the squashy cabin VG aircraft are offloading as soon as they can get an XL on the way. But like everything, the only way to really find out is to get one and see for yourself. Of course the trouble with that is if you buy the wrong thing by the time you find out, it's too late...
Guest Maj Millard Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 I spoke to somebody in the know recently, and I was told that new aircraft sales or orders in this country have stalled at the moment, including some new orders for Savannahs. This could be due to a number of factors, but I believe is due to the continuing negative financial situation caused initially by the GFC. The current uncertainity in Europe and the US is not helping either. It is real hard or nearly impossible to get finance on a lot of things at the moment, including toys like sport aircraft. Simply put, more people are still getting into financial difficulity, or just simply need to tighten the belt and turn some of the toys into cash. There is a general increase in the aircraft classifieds listing in our magazine lately. Folks are needing to list a lot of different types for sale. I can't really explain for sure why there appears to be more Savvys than other types. Maybe people realize that like gold, they are easily exchanged for cash. There is a good market out there for used Savannahs, but the people I know who own and fly them are generally very happy with the aircraft and it's performance. There could also be the thought that since the early models have been superseded by the later S model, the value of the XL and classic VG, even though they are still damn good aircraft, may soon start to decrease. Smart owners of the earlier models could be thinking that this is the time to sell and get back the $60,000 grand or so invested, and step up to the later model. This creates a good opportunity for those looking for a good low-time current model aircraft, to pick one up at the right price..............................................Maj...
JG3 Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Is it just me or are there alot of Savannahs for sale recently? There are Six for sale in this months members market alone. I count 10 Jabirus for sale in the same issue.......
turboplanner Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 That's still way out of proportion to the market share.
eightyknots Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 It is real hard or nearly impossible to get finance on a lot of things at the moment, including toys like sport aircraft. I know the problem, Maj.
Perro Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I am one of the six who had a Savannah for sale. I indeed have imported an XL. I sold the VG because after a few hours up in it I couldn't walk when I got out. The new one is just much more comfortable, even tho the seats are still the same and I need a cushion behind the small of my back. I actually think the VG may be marginally better to fly. The XL seems to be a bit front heavy and for a while the nosewheel was banging onto the strip on landing till I got used to it. I may be imagining it but it doesn't seem as maneuverable either. Whatever the case vthey are bloody brilliant aircraft, and would definitely recommend one Cheers Tim 1
eightyknots Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I am one of the six who had a Savannah for sale. I indeed have imported an XL. I sold the VG because after a few hours up in it I couldn't walk when I got out. The new one is just much more comfortable, even tho the seats are still the same and I need a cushion behind the small of my back. I actually think the VG may be marginally better to fly. The XL seems to be a bit front heavy and for a while the nosewheel was banging onto the strip on landing till I got used to it. I may be imagining it but it doesn't seem as maneuverable either. Whatever the case vthey are bloody brilliant aircraft, and would definitely recommend oneCheers Tim Nice to hear a user's comparison. Thanks Perro. How did you fix the nosewheel banging problem?
Kyle Communications Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I have a few hours on the Sav now and its a VG XL probably just not flaring enough I suppose I don't have any problems banging the nose wheel although the other day I nearly wheelbarrowed it with full flap on a touch and go just need to take the weight off the nose wheel when landing and taking off Mark
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Good to see you got the Savvy in the air Kyle, do watch that nose wheel banging, there's no future in it! A nose wheel failure will lead to lots of damage, and heaps more if you end up on your back. Best to always be a little tail low when the mains touch, the nosewheel will follow when ready..........................Maj...
Kyle Communications Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Hi Maj No not mine she hopefully will be flying end of feb early march. I have been flying with Bill Grieve in his XL to get my hand back in Mark
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Very wise Kyle..................................................................Maj...
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