RPL is comming... But what's it bringing?

[XAIRVTW]

The letter sent out by the SAAA to its members out lined that basically the RPL would allow a Pilot to still fly their VH registered aircraft without a class 2 medical for those pilots who would not pass their medical. There still is a lot of detail to be worked out & we will know what that in tails when CASA releases the document.

 

 

[robinsm]

What concerns me is that the RPL is a common sense answer to a number of problems with the present system and as such, may be a problem for officialdom to recognise. Remember the government, they aren't happy till your not happy!!!!!

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

The loophole where GA pilots elect to move to RAA because they cannot any longer pass a Class 2 medical is about to close. CASA are concerned about that situation and while I don't know the timing, the stance is if you failed a medical, there was a good reason for that and at the least you would need some form of medical clearance for RAA.

 

The mist is swirling, but there will be changes that emerge and some people are going to be disappointed. Whether that is justified remains to be seen.

 

 

[facthunter]

Bit more emotive than the factual things you usually post D10. "Loopholes. swirling mists etc" .The thing is that you can fail a medical just because some medico makes a throw-away statement. I got access to my medical file years ago and you should have seen some of the "opinion" and absolute rubbish, not fact that was on it.( I was even ridiculed for suggesting that diet was important in maintaining good health.)

 

Later on when I wanted a copy the files had been lost. (Funny that).

 

Unfortunately, people trust their doctors to record the right thing. They get it wrong often and those records live to haunt you when you want medical insurance for overseas trips , or CASA become aware of some test you did ( as a precaution ) and passed, still is an obstacle to flying.

 

Have your GP separate from your DAME. To do otherwise is naive.

 

There can be no objection to having investigations done where a potentially incapacitating condition exists. To do otherwise would be neglecting a duty of care on behalf of the controlling body. Unfortunately the authority doesn't have to really justify it's stand. They have the final say.

 

YOU would have to prove you are not a risk. In my case I firmly believe that I could pass the CASA standard, but I really can't be bothered putting up with the incompetence/ dithering /beurocratic system.

 

I don't blame Avmed particularly, they have to process medico's reports. This is where the problem often starts, and once something is in print, it's there and some lawyer may make someones life difficult later, so no-one will commit themselves to altering it. Nev

 

 

[Mazda]

dh10, quite the opposite is the case, CASA plans to introduce a drivers licence medical standard for not only RPL, but also for PPLs who choose to go that way. There will be some restrictions like 1500kg, day VFR and one pax.

 

 

[David Isaac]

My sources of information which are probably of no more value than rumour and innuendo, indicate that CASA will be offering PPL holders who can no longer maintain a Class 2 medical (but capable of maintaining a motor vehicle driver medical) to continue to operate VH registered aircraft up to 1500 Kgs MTOW (which would include aircraft such as C182s, Cherokee 235s etc).

 

The limitations being , no night VFR, no IFR or CTA operations and a maximum of two POB. The aircraft must still be maintained under current regimes for the VH type (by LAMEs).

 

I am told that this is a category that sits clearly and distinctly between RAA and PPL, the RAA benefit being owner build and maintain, but a limit of 600Kgs MTOW.

 

I wish they had that facility when I lost my medical two years ago because of a series of 4 migraine headaches over 5 months. Yes, that was all it took to lose it, no migraines for 36 years, then four, followed by CAT scans, Doplers and MRIs etc. The diagnosis was extreme stress which I acknowledge was untenable at the time. I was under the care of specialist Neurologists including one professor of Neurology who eventually cleared me as a reasonable risk to fly ... but under the CASA DAMEs handbook the authority being CASA has discretion on the qualifying period. CASA set a two year migraine free period before they would lift my "as or with co-pilot' Class 2 restriction. That period has well passed and I am now free to get another medical and fly without the restriction.

 

The point I am making is that these things can come out of the blue (young guys get migraines) and surprise you. I had previously held a Class 2 medical since age 16 and never had a problem then ... bang ... 4 migraines and I was grounded. Under this proposed regime I could have continued to fly the Citabria with the only restriction being no CTA for me. Most of us only fly with two POB in most cases. This new facility is a God send for any of us who hold PPLs and get a minor medical surprise.

 

Pity it wasn't here a few years ago because Nev could have kept his Citabria, and if anything minor medically happens to DJP he will be able to keep his Decathalon. This is an appropriate outcome for PPL holders.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Thanks for your clarification David. I hope you've hit the nail squarely on its head.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Sounds almost the same as the old PPL restricted licence from days old. just the change in medical.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Hi Steve,

 

The old restricted PPL required you to land at the airport you took off from and stay in the training area of your nominated training organisation and still required the Class 2 medical.

 

This new category at least allows you to fly anywhere except CTA without the medical.

 

 

[ave8rr]

Well put David I. I am not sure that GA pilots jumping to RAA becuase of a medical problem is a loop hole as DH10 suggests. The RPL is the way to go though for those GA pilots to continue flying when not being able to pass the class 2 medical. Probably much safer than moving over to RAA and new aircraft types to get familiar with.

 

I can see that this may see a reduction in RAA membership over time as the affected GA pilots will not make the transition as they currently have to do.

 

Cheers

 

 

[David Isaac]

I think the point that DH10 was making is that if the reason you lost the Class 2 medical was serious, then maybe you should not be driving either, and maybe some of those guys were flaunting the RAA provision (loophole as DH10 called it).

 

There is still some merit in a medical for RAA but only of the standard required for driving.

 

 

[facthunter]

There is no problem with the idea of having a relevant medical check. The standard is what we are talking about. The question is whether the standard applicable to driving a motor car is appropriate, and the restricted privileges relate to the reduced standard . For those who might consider the motor car srequirements as "bugger all" have a look at the rules and the standard required..

 

You can fail a CASA medical easily if some doctor has written something speculative, or written something to get a test done that is held against you. With the allegation of overservicing out there all the time , some things are written to cover that, and they might be something you don't want on your file. Once they are there you have a problem.

 

Some of this historically goes back to the services entry concept, which it could be alleged has little relevance to the purported safety aspects of aviation pilotage, such as we are talking about..Nev

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Hi Steve,The old restricted PPL required you to land at the airport you took off from and stay in the training area of your nominated training organisation and still required the Class 2 medical.

This new category at least allows you to fly anywhere except CTA without the medical.

And you could take your girlfriend. . I think also with the old one you could do only a few hrs without an instructor. So more a PPL without the medical.

Go all you cashed up boomers!

 

 

[XAIRVTW]

My sources of information which are probably of no more value than rumour and innuendo, indicate that CASA will be offering PPL holders who can no longer maintain a Class 2 medical (but capable of maintaining a motor vehicle driver medical) to continue to operate VH registered aircraft up to 1500 Kgs MTOW (which would include aircraft such as C182s, Cherokee 235s etc).The limitations being , no night VFR, no IFR or CTA operations and a maximum of two POB. The aircraft must still be maintained under current regimes for the VH type (by LAMEs).

 

I am told that this is a category that sits clearly and distinctly between RAA and PPL, the RAA benefit being owner build and maintain, but a limit of 600Kgs MTOW.

 

I wish they had that facility when I lost my medical two years ago because of a series of 4 migraine headaches over 5 months. Yes, that was all it took to lose it, no migraines for 36 years, then four, followed by CAT scans, Doplers and MRIs etc. The diagnosis was extreme stress which I acknowledge was untenable at the time. I was under the care of specialist Neurologists including one professor of Neurology who eventually cleared me as a reasonable risk to fly ... but under the CASA DAMEs handbook the authority being CASA has discretion on the qualifying period. CASA set a two year migraine free period before they would lift my "as or with co-pilot' Class 2 restriction. That period has well passed and I am now free to get another medical and fly without the restriction.

 

The point I am making is that these things can come out of the blue (young guys get migraines) and surprise you. I had previously held a Class 2 medical since age 16 and never had a problem then ... bang ... 4 migraines and I was grounded. Under this proposed regime I could have continued to fly the Citabria with the only restriction being no CTA for me. Most of us only fly with two POB in most cases. This new facility is a God send for any of us who hold PPLs and get a minor medical surprise.

 

Pity it wasn't here a few years ago because Nev could have kept his Citabria, and if anything minor medically happens to DJP he will be able to keep his Decathalon. This is an appropriate outcome for PPL holders.

Your on the mark David that's how I've read & understand what the RPL is for.

 

 

[av8vfr]

The reasons to move from GA to RAA would be wide and varied. Dunno about the loophole thing..

 

In my case I joined RAA years ago to get a TW endo but that was to give me skills which would have cost me a lot more had I done it GA. Same skills, just cheaper..

 

I still have a current PPL and medical, but now I have to pay the doctors and CASA every 2 years (used to be 5 until 40YO) and really, I fly 99.9% either solo or 1 pax...

 

But with PPL I don't pay annually for my licence, where RAA I do. The way I deal with it is - I think of RAA being a magazine subscription and 3rd party insurance with a free licence... so no problem.

 

So RAA introduced HF so that you have a checklist for personal well-being.. hang on!..not good enough.. now they are starting down the path of doctors and extra costs, apparently, on top of RAA fees.

 

Side note - I did HF as part of my PPL but this is not recognised and had to do the RAA exam anyway.

 

I would be interested how many accidents have occurred due to health compared to all other scenarios (CFIT, mechanical, etc). I can't recall many that I have read about, and some are speculation..

 

Also you could be very healthy and attempt to fly an non-airworthy aircraft and crash...doesn't rule out common sense, does it.

 

For me RAA has made flying fun again... plowing a Cessna through the sky had become a bit ho-hum where my current ride (Texan) is zippy, responsive and about $50 an hour cheaper.

 

I may keep my PPL for CTA but probably not worth the $$ for the medical and CASA. We will see in two years.. RPL may be on the cards but why would I want to fly something that burns 35lts/hr compared to 17 at the same IAS? (But I don't own a Decathlon!)

 

 

[Mazda]

If you have a PPL there is no need to go to RPL, you will be able to fly with a drivers licence medical with PPL privileges, including controlled airspace. It will only apply to drivers without conditions on their licences. It would suit those who can't hold a Class 2, but it might also suit those not near a DAME, or not wanting to spend the money of a medical (especially if additional tests are required), or maybe student pilots don't want to pay the medical money until they know that they want to stick with flying.

 

The RPL will have a distance limit but nav endorsements and controlled airspace endorsements will be available. It can be on a drivers licence medical.

 

If you go along to the CASA AvSeminars they have information.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Bit more emotive than the factual things you usually post D10. "Loopholes. swirling mists etc" .

A little use of the vernacular, perhaps. I am short on facts, but know there is a concern and action will be taken to remedy the concern.

 

dh10, quite the opposite is the case, CASA plans to introduce a drivers licence medical standard for not only RPL, but also for PPLs who choose to go that way. There will be some restrictions like 1500kg, day VFR and one pax.

How is that contrary to "at the least you would need some form of medical clearance for RAA.".

 

Well put David I. I am not sure that GA pilots jumping to RAA becuase of a medical problem is a loop hole as DH10 suggests.

So you assert that escaping a failed medical by moving from GA to RAA where only a health assertion is required under most circumstances is as intended and by design?

 

 

[Mazda]

David, I don't get what you are trying to say. My comment about the opposite being the case was in relation to some sort of 'loophole' closing to prevent drivers licence medicals. It is not being closed, it is being made available to GA.

 

 

[bushpilot]

A lot of our members (RAAus) come from GA - so this will likely slow that migration; but the main thing is it will allow more pilots to stick with the a/c with which they are familiar..

 

 

[David Isaac]

If you have a PPL there is no need to go to RPL, you will be able to fly with a drivers licence medical with PPL privileges, including controlled airspace. It will only apply to drivers without conditions on their licences. It would suit those who can't hold a Class 2, but it might also suit those not near a DAME, or not wanting to spend the money of a medical (especially if additional tests are required), or maybe student pilots don't want to pay the medical money until they know that they want to stick with flying.The RPL will have a distance limit but nav endorsements and controlled airspace endorsements will be available. It can be on a drivers licence medical.

 

If you go along to the CASA AvSeminars they have information.

Hi Maz,

What you are saying is interesting and a slight twist on what I had been led to believe.

 

So if I understand you correctly, an ordinary PPL will in the future only require a motor vehicle drivers standard medical (which interestingly is fairly strict) with out the restrictions I thought we would lose such as CTA, NVMC, etc and that the RPL will require a Drivers license medical and have the restrictions with endorsements to have the restrictions lifted. Does that mean an RPL with endorsements becomes a PPL? Did I get that right?

 

I need to get to one of the Av seminars I guess.

 

 

[ave8rr]

Hi all, Have a read of subpart 61.g.1 of this link http://www.casa.gov.au/newrules/parts/061/download/casr61-draftregs.pdf this is the draft for the new licence. I do note that if the holder of an RPL has a class two medical certificate then they can carry more than one passenger or if a pilot with a class two medical occupies a pilot seat and is endorsed on the aircraft then more than one passenger can be carried. This licence is still only valid for aircraft up to 1500kgs though.

 

Cheers

 

 

[robinsm]

A lot of our members (RAAus) come from GA - so this will likely slow that migration; but the main thing is it will allow more pilots to stick with the a/c with which they are familiar..

Maybe not, a lot of the new members are also facing exorbitant rises in costs for maintaining their GA aircraft, and I dont see this changing as they will still have to pay someone to maintain their 600kg plus aircraft.

 

The best thing looks like I will be able to get trained in larger aircraft for the flying schools etc. So I can see the RPL going both ways and that can only bew good for the sport as a whole in this country.

 

 

[Mazda]

Hi David, a PPL will require a Class 2 medical for all of the PPL privileges. If a PPL chooses to fly with a drivers licence medical it is an exemption and there will be some restrictions, which will be 1500kg MTOW (which covers all 4 seaters), day VFR only, up to 10,000 feet only, one passenger only, no aeros. If the pilot is already trained to fly in controlled airspace they can continue to do so. If a safety pilot is carried, you could carry more than one pax, fly over 10,000' and do aeros. They do have to go to a GP for the medical.

 

I think a few student pilots might go this way, as it will save them money until they need to hold a Class 2 or Class 1.

 

The RPL will have a 25 mile limit, 1500kg, no controlled airspace and one pax, but yes they can do recreational nav endorsements and controlled airspace endorsements, but there are still some restrictions on what they can do (like 1500kg). They will be able to sign MRs. I'm not sure of the path between RPL and PPL yet!

 

 

[David Isaac]

Thanks Maz, that is very interesting, looks like a complete review of the PPL licensing system, good news.

 

 

[Litespeed]

what is this 25km limit?

 

And what of transition from RAA to RPL?