RPL is comming... But what's it bringing?

[turboplanner]

Sounds almost the same as the old PPL restricted licence from days old. just the change in medical.

The Restricted Licence allowed you to fly in CTA, so this licence would really only benefit country pilots or those who flew round the outskirts of cities and larger towns.

 

So CASA seem to be saying they'll take the risk on an RPL holder getting lost, but not dropping in unexpectedly on a residential area.

 

 

[Yenn]

Mazda. Can you tell me where you are getting your info? my understanding of the RPL is that there is no distance limit and you can only fly into controlled airspace if you have a PPL and current medical.

 

 

[coljones]

Mazda. Can you tell me where you are getting your info? my understanding of the RPL is that there is no distance limit and you can only fly into controlled airspace if you have a PPL and current medical.

See also http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/the-casa-briefing.30859/

 

and http://casa.gov.au/newrules/parts/061/download/casr61-draftregs.pdf

 

Hopefully one of our bush lawyers will draw out the RPL navigation, CTA and controlled drome endorsements qualifiers and their relationship to Class 2 medicals and PPL, CPL or ATPL.

 

Col

 

 

[kaz3g]

You may use me as an example

And me. And lots of others I know.

 

In fact, when I look around the majority of GA/recreational aircraft owners are over 50 and getting older!

 

kaz

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

My wife says that getting older has whiskers on it and she is going to start counting backwards I keep forgetting exactly how old I am. After all there's lots of more important things to learn and remember.

 

 

[kgwilson]

It beats me why this has taken so long and become seemingly so complex and controversial. The NZ CAA created the RPL in May 2008 with a 2 page Application guidance circular & a 7 page advisory circular (1.25 pages of actual information) in Dec 09. Plus of course the actual form. It hasn't changed the Recreational Aviation fraternity in NZ and has allowed a few (maybe a lot) old fogey's to keep flying their beloved 4 seat machines less that 2000kg with only 2 seats filled (nothing about the dog in the back) & heaps of gear in their twilight aviation years. Great idea. Why doesn't CASA just get it done? Yesterday would be good.

 

 

[djpacro]

I saw this in the 2002 draft ....

 

 

[Guest 172M]

If you go to the CASA part 61 site the draft is published Pages 82 thru 90 gives all the info any one could want. Responses to the changes close early Feb.2012

 

The whole structure of the RPL( new applicant) is very similar to Raaus license (min 25 hrs/5hrs PIC) with appropriate endorsements for Rad XC, CTA, Contolled airports, (untill /if requirerd), It looks like RPL Nav requirements will be the same as Raaus Min 5 hrs solo no navaids (irrespective of the minimum hours it is compitancy based)

 

If you currently hold an ATPL,CPL,PPL, it is an opt down system to RPL(no class 2 or better) Assume that you have recency(afr) and you regain your appropriate medical all previous privelidges are automatically restored.

 

BTW 1500 kg MTOW (piston prop only) will give you a 182RG, Nanching ,Yak and of course all the Piper/Cessna 2& 4 seaters with plenty of Camping Kit!!! and a Robinson 22 as well (if you have one laying around)

 

SPL 15 yo,RPL 16yo, same as Raaus

 

Transition out of Raaus would be Theory Exam(s) and demonstrated ability in the aircraft type and I asume a Flight Test

 

If you were a younger person with career aviation aspirations smart money would be get your class 1 medical. Not withstanding one day you will need it, $25K down the track and not being fit enough would be a bitter pill!!

 

BTW the "GP" medical is a formalized statement from your GP that you are deemed fit to operate a motor vehicle( non commercial) on a public road.Most States do not have a specific certificate for this procedure.

 

I believe this will breath new life into GA and re attract a lot of lapsed flyers , mainly due to the cost, an average Class 2 @ around $200 add the cost/time to travel to a DAME.( if you can find one!) Also requirement for the property operators to fly into CTA is zip so what is the need for it to be part of the licensing process!!!!Hopefully this "refresh" and will help the industry (passion) re energize!

 

 

[djpacro]

X

 

 

[robinsm]

So if I have ppl exams, raa-aus x country etc and an Raa cert then it is basically statement from the doctor, time on type and cta experience for the RPL??

 

Sounds absolutely brilliant for expanding my horizons. (Rag and tube come first of course!!)

 

 

[robinsm]

Just Quietly, won't hurt the flying schools either with extra students upgrading their qualifications!

 

 

[Mazda]

Yenn, go to a CASA AvSafety seminar or talk given by the GA taskforce, they have been talking to industry about it.

 

 

[Bryon]

So if I have ppl exams, raa-aus x country etc and an Raa cert then it is basically statement from the doctor, time on type and cta experience for the RPL??Sounds absolutely brilliant for expanding my horizons. (Rag and tube come first of course!!)

If that is the Case, I like it.

 

It wil give all those people that want entry to CTA the opportunity to do it without having to change RAA and imposing a whole lot of new restrictions on us

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

go to a CASA AvSafety seminar or talk given by the GA taskforce, they have been talking to industry about it.

I went to one, RPL wasn't discussed at all. I asked the CASA rep about possible future weight increases for RAaus aircraft (seeing as carrying less fuel to meet a weight limit is a safety hazard) and he replied "isn't going to happen".

 

 

[Mazda]

Interesting Gnu, the ones I have been to had a presentation by the GA taskforce which talked about drivers medicals, RPL, reduction in age for GA pilots,DAMP, PPL instructors, whether AOCs would be required for some operations etc. I don't know about weight increase for RA Aus but RPL will be 1500kg. People were asking questions and the answers all seemed pretty positive.

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Yen said it....now how do we convince CASA thats the way to go?

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

I'm not holding my breath, but i wonder if there has been any movement on the RPL?

 

 

[djpacro]

It is in the draft regs - see http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/the-casa-briefing-april-2012.38033/ for the latest waffle about the new regs coming "relatively soon". Use that term in the context of the drafts being around for a decade or so.

 

There was an intent to effectively introduce it sooner by means of an exemption but the March CASA briefing back-pedalled on that.

 

 

[Guest nunans]

I'm currently trying to finish my ppl (started with an RA licence but wouldn't do it that way if i had to do it again and ultimately wanted a ppl) and the biggest problem i see is that a alot of GA schools (i've been involved with four so far) are p!issed off that RA shools are taking most of thier students and that has bad side effects. One is that when you turn up with an RA licence they don't start you off at a GFPT level, instead they feel the need to re-teach you properly how to do all the circuits and airwork stuff that you've already done but would have not been taught to the "Real Licence" level. I believe subconsciously they are attemping to recover the lost earnings that they see taxiing past in the training jabs all over Australia.

 

I really do believe alot of GA instructors are doing it tough lately and as a result are doing thier best to squeeze every last cent out of the few customers they have left.

 

 

[djpacro]

The new regs (see 61.425) would rectify the issues with transition from an RAA certificate with automatic recognition of exams and flight tests.

 

Currently, the hours are credited but not exams or tests. Turn up at a GA school and the instructors are required by CASA to certify that you are competent for every element of their approved syllabus.

 

I am currently looking at a transition syllabus for one school which does both RAA and GA training - different aeroplane types so their transition includes a type check-out:

 

• 9 hours local flying covering every element of the syllabus (per above), several hours solo practice and the two hours instrument flying (and note that to do an hour of instrument flying will require much more than an hour it is time actually "under the hood").
   
   
  
• then 5 hours of navs for CTA training
   
   
  
• next the 3+ hours for the pre-licence check flight and then the PPL test
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

[Guest nunans]

The new regs (see 61.425) would rectify the issues with transition from an RAA certificate with automatic recognition of exams and flight tests.Currently, the hours are credited but not exams or tests. Turn up at a GA school and the instructors are required by CASA to certify that you are competent for every element of their approved syllabus.

 

I am currently looking at a transition syllabus for one school which does both RAA and GA training - different aeroplane types so their transition includes a type check-out:

 

• 9 hours local flying covering every element of the syllabus (per above), several hours solo practice and the two hours instrument flying (and note that to do an hour of instrument flying will require much more than an hour it is time actually "under the hood").
   
   
  
• then 5 hours of navs for CTA training
   
   
  
• next the 3+ hours for the pre-licence check flight and then the PPL test
   
   
  

That all sounds good but the instructor can drag it out much more than that if they feel a bit cheated and are short on bookings.

 

So far I have 67hrs RA + 12.4hrs GA ccts/airwork + 24 hrs GA navs incl. 1.2hrs instrument and 3.6 into CTA. A ppl however still seems far away at this stage with one potential instructor telling me if I went with him he'd start with another 20hrs of navs. And he hadn't even flown with me to see how i was going...

 

One day I'll get there I guess,,

 

 

[Camel]

I'm currently trying to finish my ppl (started with an RA licence but wouldn't do it that way if i had to do it again and ultimately wanted a ppl) and the biggest problem i see is that a alot of GA schools (i've been involved with four so far) are p!issed off that RA shools are taking most of thier students and that has bad side effects. One is that when you turn up with an RA licence they don't start you off at a GFPT level, instead they feel the need to re-teach you properly how to do all the circuits and airwork stuff that you've already done but would have not been taught to the "Real Licence" level. I believe subconsciously they are attemping to recover the lost earnings that they see taxiing past in the training jabs all over Australia.I really do believe alot of GA instructors are doing it tough lately and as a result are doing thier best to squeeze every last cent out of the few customers they have left.

I believe that the GA schools do want to play pay back and are wineing to CASA trying to get buisness again but after having done my HGFA(trike), AUF then PPL and now instructing RAA, I feel GA needs to learn to operate better instead of treating students as sub human and standing around drinking coffee telling how good they are and saying "can't wait to get a job with the Airlines". RAA schools are friendly, relaxed, humble and helpful. I helped a solo student years ago because instructor inside talking and drinking coffee as wind changed and student doing dangerous strong tail wind landing. Most of the problems teaching in RAA is the GA conversions as SOME use rudder pedals as foot rests, land sideways and do three pointers also they do not know what rudder pedals are for except taxying. I have spent many hours teaching GA pilots to fly RAA aircraft including adverse yaw and try to stop them three point landing as they tell me that was ok and I say hold off longer and keep the front wheel off. RAA aircraft are mostly harder to fly and land than the GA trainers also most RAA aircraft out perform GA trainer from my experience, so why do GA instructors carry on about real licence/aircraft. But I believe it might be best before changing from RAA to GA get the PPL theory out of the way or the instructor will think you are inferior as there is a higher level and a harder exam. The GA Flying and CTA and instrument should come in time without feeling belittled.

 

The LAME's are also wineing to CASA because they get little from RAA aircraft owners. I owned a GA plane for over 8 years and will never own one again, I would get a perfect plane annual inspected and pay a fortune to find many faults after that they had created and always denial that they did it. LAME are generally expensive and are holding you to ransom as they can only sign it out and they mainly employ unqualified people to carry out maintenance and that is charged at approx $100 an hour even for unqualified staff, I am a Motor Mechanic by trade and look at Lame' like they make it up as they go they need money then they find problems and rub their paws (gold finger) together and you can't do any thing and nor will CASA the only way to stop this is form a bond with your LAME and stay with your plane while serviced. Most automotive mechanic workshops will only employ trades people with a MVIRC ( motor vehicle repair industry council) Licence so most Aircraft maintenance facility will have one LAME and some labourer to do the work so the LAME can sit and do paperwork and the there is plenty and they usually charge for paper work.

 

Problems I've had and I'm sure the prime reason that most GA pilots/plane owners that have come to RAA came because they didn't want to deal with LAME's any longer and were doing a 100 hours a year and every year they find a problem that was't there before but could not be faulty in 100 hours.

 

My aircraft was a Cessna and after over 8 years sold it back to the guy I bought it off and it was in a better condition when he bought it off me so I'm not scared to maintain to a high standard, I also kept my plane in charter catergory whilst I owned it for private use. I was proud of the condition I kept my plane in and nearly cried when I saw what some LAME did to my plane.

 

This is my opinion and has been formed from my experience so bad luck if you don't agree, I didn't make it up, it's true.

 

 

[facthunter]

There is a fair bit of looking down your nose at RAAus., out there. I agree with all you say regarding the skill required to fly RAAus planes over many GA types which were deliberately designed to be forgiving and hard to stall.

 

ALL mechanics can be sloppy if the system allows it. It's more important with a plane, that they aren't.

 

The owner and builder and pilot of a plane ( if they are all rolled into one) will be trying to do a very careful job of maintaining his/her plane. The motivation is there to do it. (It's called survival instinct), and they have already demonstrated their commitment to it.

 

In a lifetime I have found very few people that I trust to spanner my vehicles (and planes). Could easily count them on one hand.

 

Most times it hasn't been done as requested or has been "monstered" by a cretin who leaves things loose or overtightened, or no oil in it. . No "feel" for the situation.

 

That's a problem with SOME pilots too, ( In all categories). I'm prepared to elabotate but you can provide your own examples. Nev

 

 

[Camel]

I don't understand what you mean by looking down my nose at RAA as I support RAA in all aspects of their mission statement and the only thing I would say that RAA pilots should not push for is CTA entry but merely the right to transit at a safe height and distance for example Coffs Harbour needs a transit for RAA but I feel if anyone want CTA then get a PPL .

 

An example of what I said about pilots the first thing when a GA pilot takes off in my aircraft I warn them that it requires a lot of right rudder on take off and they don't respond as they are not use to the power to weight and only use to big heavy metal with only just enough HP from a big certified ancient engine designed in 1940. Certification is not the way to advance designs in engines or airframe and nor is over regulation.

 

 

[Camel]

And after saying all that I went fo a fly in an old Auster and that was nice.