J230D or 170D for remote NT?

[Anthony Gray]

Hi, I am a CPL with mainly 172RG time but am wanting to buy a J230D, J430 or J170D for business use throughout remote NT. The J230D NVFR is my preferred at the moment but the range, useable load and price of the J170 is very enticing. How do you think I would go in a J170D in the top end weather? or do you think not much difference with the J230 and J170 in turbulence. Thanks.

 

 

[Tomo]

I know a lot of people like the J230 because of the extra luggage room, and the extra power for those hot days comes in mighty handy.

 

Personally I haven't flown a J170 yet so can't give you a comparison, but from what I've heard people seem to like them. My personal opinion, the J230 would be more suitable for carrying items and practicality in my point of view.

 

Ps. Welcome to the forum

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

Thanks for that Tomo, the baggage room is certainly impressive, however with 2 people and some long distances without avgas available may present weight problems with the J230D if you were to stay within the law. Wouldn't be able to fit much baggage in if any at all.

 

 

[Tomo]

Would you be GA registering it, or RAA? If it were GA I believe MTOW is a lot higher (?)

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

Yeh with GA registration. But two passengers 170kg combined only 60kg left for fuel or 83lts is about 3.5hrs plus 45min reserve. This may not cut it for some trips. Unless of course it can run on opal or 91 RON with a octane booster additive??????

 

 

[David Isaac]

I am not sure but I thought in GA rego they could go to 700Kgs MTOW, does anyone know what the exact MTOW is in GA guise?

 

 

[Camel]

All LSA is 600kg GA or RAA registered but experimental home build J430 is 700kg MTOW.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Yeh with GA registration. But two passengers 170kg combined only 60kg left for fuel or 83lts is about 3.5hrs plus 45min reserve. This may not cut it for some trips. Unless of course it can run on opal or 91 RON with a octane booster additive??????

Nope, POH calls for AVGAS, or 95RON or better mogas and even then inference from the jabachat part of the jab website is only infrequently.

 

You post infers the four seater which is the J430 not the J230. A J230, with GA 700kg MTOW, gives full fuel plus some more in the back in a Jerry or 2 if you need it, each Jerry is good for +45 mins, but not so good while in crash mode........

 

POH can be found here for the 230 http://www.jabiru.net.au/eula/eula.asp?u=/Manuals/Pilot%20Operating%20Handbooks/JP-FM-09_J230-D_POH_Rev2.pdf

 

 

[Guest cficare]

NVFR wont keep u alive with Top End Wx!!

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

Thanks, the 430 would be the best but I have no time to build one at the moment and with the costs of the second hand ones around I am thinking Im better of just getting the new GA 230D or maybe the GA 170D which appears to have a 290kg useable load which would mean full fuel and luggage with 2 POB.

 

But would the 170D still cut it in the turbulence and weather? or would I really need to go with at least the 230 to be more comfortable? Would love a C182 but too old, expensive and low tech.

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

NVFR wont keep u alive with Top End Wx!!

too true, not the safest in any weather, but I would love the extra time to make it home and the night hours!!!

 

 

[Camel]

Thanks, the 430 would be the best but I have no time to build one at the moment and with the costs of the second hand ones around I am thinking Im better of just getting the new GA 230D or maybe the GA 170D which appears to have a 290kg useable load which would mean full fuel and luggage with 2 POB.But would the 170D still cut it in the turbulence and weather? or would I really need to go with at least the 230 to be more comfortable? Would love a C182 but too old, expensive and low tech.

If you would like a c182 you should be looking in USA now as the price is right and have seen a couple of late model C206, C172 and C182 people have imported

 

It is a be good time to buy in USA at moment for late model at realistic prices and exchange.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I reckon you'll like the extra speed and power of the 6 cyl if doing some distance regularly.

 

How about a used RV with a Lycoming or something like that?

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

I reckon you'll like the extra speed and power of the 6 cyl if doing some distance regularly.How about a used RV with a Lycoming or something like that?

Will have a better look at the RVs, Yeh having a 6 cyl in such a light plane is very appealing, was just reading the J230 users manual, thanks Andys@coffs, definitely no octane additives and the fuel consumption at 100knots 15lts/hr, am happy to fly slow and this will really help with weight issues. If that's accurate, 11kg of fuel per hour and me losing 10kgs at the gym will probably work out nicely

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Will have a better look at the RVs, Yeh having a 6 cyl in such a light plane is very appealing, was just reading the J230 users manual, thanks Andys@coffs, definitely no octane additives and the fuel consumption at 100knots 15lts/hr, am happy to fly slow and this will really help with weight issues. If that's accurate, 11kg of fuel per hour and me losing 10kgs at the gym will probably work out nicely

Nope...Jab engines dont like just ticking along they need to run hard, plam for cruise at around 2850-2900 RPM which will get you 120kts and about 23-27Lt/hr. I mean you can do the 100kts if its needed to extend the range from time to time but the majority needs to be at the RPM's I mentioned and if considering buying new then definately not softly softly for the first 50hrs or so. Did you find the Jaba Chat area on the www.jabiru.net.au website? you get a warts and all look at the type of areas we have been talking about, and there are some warts...... but in terms of cubic feet of areoplane per $ hard to beat.

 

Andy

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

OK, didn't know about that, I guess it will have to be a second hand 430 for me.

 

 

[facthunter]

I know of a 430 used in the centre and it's not a performer on a very hot day. The lower wing loading of the 170, should give you a better take-off performance in the heat, and the smoothness of the ride shouldn't be the only consideration. It's going to be rough in the afternoons most days anyhow.

 

There is some question of the max. OAT for operating a Jab. ( there IS for all planes), but I don't think you should leave it out in the hot sun., before jumping into it. Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

Theres often 430's for sale on the Jabiru website http://www.jabiru.net.au/ - under "For sale"

 

You as second owner loose all maintenance privaleges but only make them the same as normal GA AC. An issue I see is getting composite inspection done. LAME with this Qual are a bit hard to find. Anyone have experience with this?

 

As discussed dont run engine under 2800rpm, get full EGT and CHT monitoring and it should be fine.

 

J430 is a nice aircraft, dont ignore a good J400 either, few upgrades and should be as good, shorter wing might be a bit better in rough conditions? Often come with solid lifter engines too.

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

Theres often 430's for sale on the Jabiru website http://www.jabiru.net.au/ - under "For sale"You as second owner loose all maintenance privaleges but only make them the same as normal GA AC. An issue I see is getting composite inspection done. LAME with this Qual are a bit hard to find. Anyone have experience with this?

As discussed dont run engine under 2800rpm, get full EGT and CHT monitoring and it should be fine.

 

J430 is a nice aircraft, dont ignore a good J400 either, few upgrades and should be as good, shorter wing might be a bit better in rough conditions? Often come with solid lifter engines too.

Are the Jabiru engines as good as any other GA engine? seems to be alot of good writing about them but alot of cautions also?

 

 

[facthunter]

No they are not anthony, but you get what you pay for. They are cheap to buy and cheap to repair. if I was flying in the centre I would use a "certified" engine. it's

 

a lonely place out there and if you don't do the right thing you will not last 2 days on your own. if you have to put it down.Nev

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

No they are not anthony, but you get what you pay for. They are cheap to buy and cheap to repair. if I was flying in the centre I would use a "certified" engine. it'sa lonely place out there and if you don't do the right thing you will not last 2 days on your own. if you have to put it down.Nev

Is it official, do they stop more often than cessna engines?? I have a mate who flies brand new C182s and has had two forced landings from oil seals blowing out and covering the windscreen.

 

 

[jetjr]

Here we go again Jab bashers love this sort of question.

 

They are not the same, vastly cheaper to own and operate but need some more watching but very good value for money, theres a few things to do to keep an eye on thier operation.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Jetjr,

 

Please don't be so reactive to criticisms of the Jabiru. All types will have their points of criticism.

 

Nev is not a Jab basher and neither am I. Nev asnwered the question he was asked truthfully and in the same manner I would have.

 

I have been critical of some of Jabiru characteristics and of the engine at times, but that doesn't make me a Jab basher either. They happen to be the best value aircarft on the RAA market, just be aware that you always get what you pay for. They are a tough little unit, but to us experienced aviators, who have flown lots of aircraft, we are aware of some of their design and performance limitations.

 

I know as time goes by they will progressively improve as they have to date. Their engine design has unfortunately been subject to more criticism than any other in Australia for what has been valid issues from time to time.

 

Just because we are critical of characteristics of type does not mean we are 'bashing' the model.

 

 

[Anthony Gray]

Thanks for the info guys, I still think a Jabiru is the right one for me, have worked and lived all over remote NT mainly the top end for a long time, flying will certainly be safer than driving and many pilots have come to an end in much more expensive and bigger aircraft, putting a plane down and camping for a few days, it would be a holiday anyway LOL. The work that I will be able to get done with a Jabiru added to my business will be huge, not to mention the value for money my customers will get who currently would pay $550 an hour for a C210 just to get me and gear around.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

I have been close to circling OZ twice in a J230. cant beat it for endurance, X-wind performance and comfort.

 

I would choose the 230 over the 170 due to take off performance and horse power in hot conditions, makes a hell of a difference on hot runways.

 

Some forum members post disparaging remarks about Jabs. I personally do not know of any one that has changed from a Jab to another brand, only those who have stepped up to a later or larger engine model.

 

Hope this helps you Anthony

 

Phil