Jaba-who Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I have a J430 and am part of a touring group which has two other 230/430 models and we have been to NT twice already as well as outback South Australia twice. (Plus a number of trips to other states and places) We have been there just after the wet while green and cool and also later in the year when hotter and smoky to almost IMC conditions. What do I reckon? The Jabs have performed as well or better than our other Piper Cherokees, Cessna 206 (on floats) and Cessna 177 that are part of the group. Better than several other aircraft of completely different types so not a fair comparison. Incidentally we have had no engine problems with the Jabs but several with the other aircraft. We mostly travel with two pilots per aircraft and all our gear and with full fuel are usually below max weight (two of ours are experimental class so are certified to 700 kgs) while the other (exactly the same airframe ) RAAus registered is supposed to stay below 600kg but ..... (where's the sense in that but go figure! ) Anyway my feeling about the J400 series (never flown a J170 so can't advise on that.) In the bush the Jab is brilliant. At DAs of over 5000ft I still take off full weight in about 300 m. (Wheels off) DAs of 0 ft - less than 200 m. Landing rolls do depend on hitting the threshold right but are less than 200m. Beware that if it's hot you do have to come in a bit faster and if you don't get it right she will want to float. Fuel efficiency is great - 25l at 2900 rpm . I agree with several posts - you gotta run it harder not softer. The engine CHTs and EGTs runs hotter if you back off the rpms. Run it hot for a short while if you got fuel issues by all means but don't do it as a matter of course or your engine may suffer in the long run. The bad news. I find the Jab is not a good aircraft in turbulence. The wing loading is so low that it bounces around more than a heavy beast (like the Piper Warrior, that I learned my fixed wing in.) It becomes quite bouncy and you need to be thinking about your track for turbulence off hills, over hot bare ground etc. I tend be a fair weather flier and hate turbulence so part of that will effect my outlook but overall if I were going to be flying in rough weather a lot I would choose a different aircraft. But if your flying is going to be in mostly good weather then the Jab 2/400 series can't be beat. Don't know about NVFR. Mine is only day registered and I made a point of not kitting it out for NVFR so I am not ever tempted to fly late. In return for this info I wonder if I can pick your brains about a particular strip in NT? We are going back in June next year for a week. Looking at landing at Wauchope near the Devils MArbles. Any familiarity with that strip? Is it any good? ANy hints. I spoke with the pub people who said it is fine, but none were pilots (and I've been given bum info before by people who want you to come and spend money with them :-( ) cheers John Martin http://www.jabiru430.com 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Adelaide in Summer can be damn hot, and as you know if you read the POH that I linked to last there is an max temp to operate in being 38deg. That temp is not at all uncommon in Adl in summer and its often the case that when its at or about that temp that there tends to be an inversion layer. The point to this rambling is that for ADL at least 38 often translates to 36 on the ground if you need to climb above the inversion layer. You have 2 choices keep down low and get your a$$ kicked by turbulence or climb through the hot layer hoping that the turbs will be less as you climb and that the excersions into the red zone on the temp gauge is temporary and short in duration... 38 is, for SA a bit low, not sure what impact if any NT would have... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Gray Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 I have a J430 and am part of a touring group which has two other 230/430 models and we have been to NT twice already as well as outback South Australia twice. (Plus a number of trips to other states and places) We have been there just after the wet while green and cool and also later in the year when hotter and smoky to almost IMC conditions.What do I reckon? The Jabs have performed as well or better than our other Piper Cherokees, Cessna 206 (on floats) and Cessna 177 that are part of the group. Better than several other aircraft of completely different types so not a fair comparison. Incidentally we have had no engine problems with the Jabs but several with the other aircraft. We mostly travel with two pilots per aircraft and all our gear and with full fuel are usually below max weight (two of ours are experimental class so are certified to 700 kgs) while the other (exactly the same airframe ) RAAus registered is supposed to stay below 600kg but ..... (where's the sense in that but go figure! ) Anyway my feeling about the J400 series (never flown a J170 so can't advise on that.) In the bush the Jab is brilliant. At DAs of over 5000ft I still take off full weight in about 300 m. (Wheels off) DAs of 0 ft - less than 200 m. Landing rolls do depend on hitting the threshold right but are less than 200m. Beware that if it's hot you do have to come in a bit faster and if you don't get it right she will want to float. Fuel efficiency is great - 25l at 2900 rpm . I agree with several posts - you gotta run it harder not softer. The engine CHTs and EGTs runs hotter if you back off the rpms. Run it hot for a short while if you got fuel issues by all means but don't do it as a matter of course or your engine may suffer in the long run. The bad news. I find the Jab is not a good aircraft in turbulence. The wing loading is so low that it bounces around more than a heavy beast (like the Piper Warrior, that I learned my fixed wing in.) It becomes quite bouncy and you need to be thinking about your track for turbulence off hills, over hot bare ground etc. I tend be a fair weather flier and hate turbulence so part of that will effect my outlook but overall if I were going to be flying in rough weather a lot I would choose a different aircraft. But if your flying is going to be in mostly good weather then the Jab 2/400 series can't be beat. Don't know about NVFR. Mine is only day registered and I made a point of not kitting it out for NVFR so I am not ever tempted to fly late. In return for this info I wonder if I can pick your brains about a particular strip in NT? We are going back in June next year for a week. Looking at landing at Wauchope near the Devils MArbles. Any familiarity with that strip? Is it any good? ANy hints. I spoke with the pub people who said it is fine, but none were pilots (and I've been given bum info before by people who want you to come and spend money with them :-( ) cheers John Martin http://www.jabiru430.com Thanks for the info Martin, the 230s and 430s sound like great aircraft, the C172RG I learned in also got thrown around in turbulence out the back of SE QLD and NSW. Not familiar with the Devils Marbles strip, I'd say it wouldnt be much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Gray Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Adelaide in Summer can be damn hot, and as you know if you read the POH that I linked to last there is an max temp to operate in being 38deg. That temp is not at all uncommon in Adl in summer and its often the case that when its at or about that temp that there tends to be an inversion layer. The point to this rambling is that for ADL at least 38 often translates to 36 on the ground if you need to climb above the inversion layer. You have 2 choices keep down low and get your a$$ kicked by turbulence or climb through the hot layer hoping that the turbs will be less as you climb and that the excersions into the red zone on the temp gauge is temporary and short in duration...38 is, for SA a bit low, not sure what impact if any NT would have... Andy Thanks Andy, I didnt realise operating temp actually directly related to the engine cooling. Seems from reading the manual the engines also aren't really able to wait at the holding point for too long either, but hey, neither do I!! There are a couple of J230s at Emkaytee strip just outside of Darwin, am trying to get time for a test flight in Jan, however after searching through adds for 1970s model C182 and 172s for over $100,000 for a reasonable one, Jabirus are looking great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Some relate the max operating temp to information which says the composite begins to soften at high temps There was a thread on this ages ago, I think the outcome was this is not the case with the way Jabirus are made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 You can buy a 2000-2001 year C182 with approx 1000 hours for $150k US, you can get a 2005ish C172 for sub $130k. A 2000 C172 can be had for under $100k, very good value at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The bad news.I find the Jab is not a good aircraft in turbulence. The wing loading is so low that it bounces around more than a heavy beast (like the Piper Warrior, that I learned my fixed wing in.) It becomes quite bouncy and you need to be thinking about your track for turbulence off hills, over hot bare ground etc. Get up early, do all your flying in the cooler hours, than make sure your at the pub by 11! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 You can buy a 2000-2001 year C182 with approx 1000 hours for $150k US, you can get a 2005ish C172 for sub $130k. A 2000 C172 can be had for under $100k, very good value at the moment. You can also buy Low time RV 8's and Rv 7's from the states as well.There is some great examples of RV 8's on Barnstormers ATM around the 80K mark.( 1 RV 7 for $65.5K) The going rate for import with everything done for you and put on the register seems to be around $30 K.That includes a inspection of the aircraft over there, if it no good they will tell you. There are cheaper ways to do it, but I no nothing about this type of stuff.Probably easier to get the professionals who do this for a living.So just say you bought a RV 7 for $70K.It will own you $100K turn key here ready to go.Thats not bad I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Gray Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 Get up early, do all your flying in the cooler hours, than make sure your at the pub by 11! Yeh its all about planning, really a C172 or C182 isn't going to make alot of difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Gray Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 You can buy a 2000-2001 year C182 with approx 1000 hours for $150k US, you can get a 2005ish C172 for sub $130k. A 2000 C172 can be had for under $100k, very good value at the moment. How much time would it take to organise to get one here? The deals in the US are great, but being flat out with work, getting one here and ready to fly is looking tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Gray Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 Get up early, do all your flying in the cooler hours, than make sure your at the pub by 11! If your the same Howard Hughes from ALW, I am hanging out to see the SP6000 and working towards one of them in the future!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I'm not an expert at importing aircraft, I wouldn't even like to have a guess! PS: No not him, I'm the good looking one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 PS: No not him, I'm the good looking one! He still flies cool aircraft though... Friend of mine uses the J230 around the western Qld area for his transport, suits the bush strips and what not he flies into. But he also has the C182 for night ops, and more room if he needs it. Jab is waaaaayyyy cheaper to operate for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 He still flies cool aircraft though... Me? Or the real him? I think his are better than mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I reckon go a Jabiru, if you fly to the conditions and plan well- they are greats. Bang for bucks and lots of support. A replacement engine is days away if needed, well suited to the big country. But damn a imported Bonanza would be awesome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Someone has already mentioned the consideration of the maintenance especially the composite inspection. Just make sure you have a friendly LAME with a composite ticket (preferably several in case one leaves). I have a friend here with a glassair which he bought secondhand and thus can't do his own maintenance and he has had a lot of problems because we have had periods with no suitable LAME around. He now flies a LAME up from down south at some expense. But the trade off is buy a metal plane (older cessna or piper) for cheaper price and as they are usually older and need lots more maintenance especially for corrosion and have more cost for 100 hourlies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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