Central Area Rally Crosswind Landings

[kgwilson]

Some interesting crosswind landings and attempts at the NZ Central Area Rally at Tokoroa Airfield on 5 November 2011. Features a 180HP 172 ZK JGP I used to fly a few years ago.

 

 

 

[David Isaac]

Boy that would be all beer and skittles in the Auster ... what do you reckon Kaz ...? LOL.

 

I noticed the C180 did a nice one though.

 

Someone ought to teach those Kiwis wing down technique though.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Someone ought to teach those Kiwis wing down technique though.

Yeah that amazed me too. No-one dropped the into wind wing & only a couple landed on the into wind wheel first. But then it did seem a trifle gusty

 

 

[fly_tornado]

it looked like a pretty full on crosswind.

 

 

[pudestcon]

Well I enjoyed watching that. Like others I can't understand why no boot it straight in the flare and into wind wing down. Still it was a pretty well full on crosswind, and one I would not have been up in. Well exceeding my skill level, and the capabilities of my Thruster!!

 

Pud

 

 

[Guernsey]

I was also a bit surprised as to the amount of flap some were using.

 

Alan.

 

 

[pudestcon]

I was also a bit surprised as to the amount of flap some were using.Alan.

And seemed to struggle taking flap off when initiating a go around.

Pud

 

 

[Tomo]

Oh man! Some scary landings there!

 

I think FMV that came in towards the end did the nicest landing, because he had that wing down.

 

I like full flap in the Cessna in crosswinds Guernsey, nothing worse than floating down a runway when you need to be on it to not blow off.

 

 

[dazza 38]

HI Guys, I am wondering as well about some of it. I used to do the old crab into the wind then kick straight on round out.I have not dont that for a long time.Mainly because I fly high wing aircraft the most these days.Like in the Video.I did it for years. Its OK with Nose wheel, But I think you are asking for trouble with TW. IMO the best thing to do is fly on final wing low into the wind to counter the drift.If done right on final.You will be tracking straight down the runway.Flair like normal and land on the into the wind main wheel.

 

This does not always work with low wing A/c due to the into the wind wing tip being very close to the ground.Sometimes both techniques need to be used as a mixture.Airline pilots crab and kick straight, the dont have a option due to underslung jet engines. Same as turbo prop guys in low wingers.Fear of hiting props on the ground.

 

 

[kaz3g]

That look

 

Boy that would be all beer and skittles in the Auster ... what do you reckon Kaz ...? LOL.I noticed the C180 did a nice one though.

 

Someone ought to teach those Kiwis wing down technique though.

That looks like a day where a cross-runway landing would be my preferred method but you might recall we had a video of an Auster being landed x-wind by one of DJP's friends and he had it absolutely sideways on approach before dropping a wing big time and landing on one wheel?

 

kaz

 

 

[David Isaac]

Yep Kaz,

 

Did a X wind into Mudgee some years ago in the JIB and it was exciting ... wing real low (almost on the ground) and we did OK, didn't look pretty but that type of landing never does, but it was down and not going anywhere. The gusting is the biggest problem in the Auster due the very low wing loading.

 

Dazz,

 

You have to be real careful with the wing low all the way down final especially if you are on one wing tank and the fuel level is low. Technically you are out of balance in that configuration and it is possible to uncover the fuel pick up in some types. I tend to switch from crab to wing low in late final and do the flare wing low; you have better control.

 

Alan,

 

we always use full flap in a Cessna in crosswind, the flap has a superior drag quality, better that than the floating option in a cross wind landing in a Cessna. Did you guys see the nice controlled C180 landing, almost the best one.

 

 

[dazza 38]

That is true David, I should have mentioned that.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Iggy,

 

You wouldn't believe how much punishment a Cessna undercart will tolerate, I have seen students stall from around 15 to 20 ft and slam them on and they survive. C150/152s are built for abuse, that is why they are relatively heavy for their size. The 'rusty old Cessna' slag given them by some RAA pilots is hardly fair when you compare them with our trainers. They are the perfect aircraft to teach crosswind landings in, if you can do it in a Cessna, a Piper is a breeze. ...Then you graduate to a tail wheeler in crosswinds ... now you are talking ... that is real flying ... or entertainment depending on your perspective ... ask Nev

 

 

[naremman]

Interesting that the C180 pilot, who probably faced the highest degree of difficulty score, was the bloke who appeared to handle the conditions best.

 

Aileron into wind does not seem to be applied to good effect in too many landings. In 30 years of 172 ownership I have found it nearly impossible to screw in too much aileron in a severe xwind.

 

How many times did the landing aircraft end up with only the out of wind main wheel as the only point of contact with terra firma? On the very few times that I tried this configuration during my training, my instructor was nearly apoplectic through severe hypertension. I reasoned that it was beneficial to avoid this configuration at all costs!!

 

Tomo, I endorse your comments re full flap for xwind landings. The sooner that it is pinned firmly on the deck the better.

 

Some great footage, and the running commentary was at times classic understatement.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Oh man! Some scary landings there!I think FMV that came in towards the end did the nicest landing, because he had that wing down.

 

I like full flap in the Cessna in crosswinds Guernsey, nothing worse than floating down a runway when you need to be on it to not blow off.

I agree Tomo if it is a constant speed cross wind I would always use three quaters to full flap, crab sideways then kick straight then wing down and land on one wheel,

 

however in blustery conditions full flaps tend to toss you around more and at the lower speed less control, you have to time it perfectly. In the larger Cessnas such as the 172 you tend to wallow around more whereas the 150 is more stable and controlable particularly with the turned down winglets which I had on mine. I did my early training on an Auster and then converted to Cessnas later thats probably why I used that method bearing in mind that full flaps on the Auster would shield the rudder more therefore less directional control..

 

Alan.

 

 

[David Isaac]

.......... I did my early training on an Auster ......

Austers ... Ahhh the heart flutters ... they are sweet old birds to those who master them ...

 

 

[naremman]

What about those aspiring Auster drivers who have been lead away from them weeping and wailing!!

 

I'm a clod foot enough, without facing the challenge of those heel brakes.

 

Had a mate who had a J2 Arrow, with a C75 engine and would get a 65 Knot cruise, going slightly downhill. Give him his due though, his mastery of that machine was something to behold. When Reg and Shirley Adkins used to bring their Tiger Moth up to the Bruce Rock fly ins, Reg was delighted that he something to pass in the Tiger!!

 

 

[David Isaac]

STill laughing ... you really need to have Fred Astair traits to fly Austers and early Cubs ... you know how it goes ... heel and toe .. heel and toe ......

 

 

[Guernsey]

Austers...Austers...certainly brings back those cross wind landing memories. Here's the one in question plus another of my 'similar' tail draggers.

 

 

 

 

[David Isaac]

Was that a J1 or 5 and the other looks like a Cub in VH rego form.

 

Did that silencer on the Auster work very well. The J1B I fly is very noisy and has a 4 into one pipe only.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Was that a J1 or 5 and the other looks like a Cub in VH rego form.Did that silencer on the Auster work very well. The J1B I fly is very noisy and has a 4 into one pipe only.

The silencer must have worked pretty well as we didn't have head sets and intercoms in those days.

 

The Auster is a J1n, three seater, powered by a 130 hp Gipsy Major.

 

The other aircraft is an L4J Piper Cub ( circa 1944 ) Reg VH-LFJ. I chose this rego LFJ........L4J. I had it restored in the Philipines.

 

I based it at Parafield Airport in SA.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Nice Alan,

 

The J1B (not quite sure what the differences were between 1B and 1N) that I fly has the same motor, the 130HP Gypsy Major, it has the heavy duty crankshaft in it which gives a TBO of 1500hrs. There is no way you could communicate without headsets though due engine noise.

 

I will look into where I can get that muffler assembly, I guess if it is standard Auster it should be available without an STC. I have seen some Auster Photographs where they have a long tail pipe under the fuse as well.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

Geez... pity the "all blacks" were only as good as these guys .... We would then have a chance at beating the buggers

 

 

[David Isaac]

You are so right DD, but they are damn good footie players compared to piloting . LOL.

 

What amuses me is that it is always blowing a gale in New Zealand, so you would think they would be good at Xwind landings right?

 

 

[kgwilson]

To be fair guys, most of these are PPL students or low hour PPLs. Most of the aircraft are club owned or operated

 

(except 180s). Says something about the health of the GA Aero Club scene there. As an ex Kiwi I know how it is to get chucked in at the deep end. My first flight after attaining my PPL (my choice) was to fly across tiger country for nearly an hour, then cross 50 nautical miles of ocean (never been out to sea before) & fly to my home town on a different island. Did all the right stuff like flight plan, squawk codes, CFIs blessing etc & my confidence & knowledge went through the roof.

 

It can sure blow a gale there and often in the wrong direction but even if the methods demonstrated in this video are somewhat wanting you can bet your bottom dollar that it was a learning experience the participants won't forget.