Important Announcement

[Admin]

Hi All

 

Years ago I had a vision for this site...a resource that will help all aviators by the exchange of each other's experiences in the hope that we could all together save lives, learn from each other and create new friendships between all us like minded aviators. Unfortunately that vision is now simply too hard to realise.

 

I strongly believe that there is still a "need" for that vision, i.e. a powerful and centralised resource for all aviators, but then I have also come to realise there is a "want" by users for a forum where they can chat. It has over the years become increasingly difficult to provide both a resource and chat within the same space, each one diluting the other. This has resulted in some users no longer getting what they once did from this site...they either came here for helpful exchange of information in their flying endeavours, or they came here to chat about aviation, governing bodies etc...then again there are some that come here for both. All this makes it hard to deliver to the needs of as many of you as possible.

 

And this site is all about trying to deliver to your needs in aviation as much as possible.

 

So a radical step is currently underway and some could say it is simply a natural progression of the site when you have a product that is conflicting with its initial vision.

 

Recreational Flying (.com.au) will be re-established, under the management of Ahlocks and David Isaacs to provide a "Forum" for Australian RAAus Members. Aircraft Pilots (.com) will remain as the "Resource" and continued to be developed in line with its vision as a helpful resource for all aviators.

 

Whilst there will be a split of the site, they will be interlinked so a user can click between the two. For those that are interested in RAAus politics and the recreational aviation scene in Australia can use Recreational Flying (.com.au) as their "Forum" to chat, discuss things etc, for those more interested in Aircraft, Training, Flying, Aviation Industry in general etc, an aviation resource, can use Aircraft Pilots (.com)...and those interested in both can simply click between the two as and when they like to.

 

Recreational Flying will use the current forum etc software that is more community orientated and Aircraft Pilots will switch over to the old software that provides greater opportunity in using many different extra features. Aircraft Geeks, the Enthusiasts site is also using the old software and again will be interlinked with Recreational Flying and Aircraft Pilots.

 

I will be managing Aircraft Pilots and Aircraft Geeks, Ahlocks and David Isaacs will be managing Recreational Flying although I will continue the development of Recreational Flying.

 

I would have liked to have been able to contain everything in just one simple site however it is, and has been for some time, simply impossible to be able to achieve my vision of trying to help as many aviators as possible with this site whilst catering to the needs of every single person.

 

All of this is simply the product of growth which has been achieved through years of hard work, lots of money and you people, the users, in coming here...your Home of Pilots, Aircraft and Aviation Enthusiasts.

 

So, you will now have 3 unique sites at your disposal to use that will hopefully suit all your needs:

 

Recreational Flying (.com.au) - a "Forum" site dedicated to Australian RAAus members for their chat and community (managed by Ahlocks and David Isaacs)

 

Aircraft Pilots (.com) - a comprehensive forum and resource dedicated to helping all pilots with many different features (managed by myself)

 

Aircraft Geeks (.com) - a comprehensive forum and resource dedicated to all the aviation enthusiasts (currently seeking any one who would like to form a group to manage this site)

 

I am just working through the logistics of all this and should have it all up and running in the next few days

 

 

[petetheprinta]

Sounds good to me, perhaps we can now do away with some of the sniping (RAA v's GA) and crud that rears it's ugly head now and again?? (or pick and choose at least) good luck with it fellas.

 

 

[facthunter]

If your aim is perfection, then surely you will be disappointed in this life, because nothing is perfect.

 

You are entitled to try for what you want and I am aware that at times it may seem bad. The potential is more in total, but it will dilute the resource because the users are the resource. Your forum is the structure that we operate under, and it is a house with many rooms, now.

 

Good luck, and thank you to those who are prepared to put in some effort. Nev

 

 

[Guernsey]

Thanks Ian for your efforts and back Recreational Flying. I know it never really dissapeared but the name did.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Admin]

Nev, it's sort of like what Jetstar and Qantas use to be like or was first set up as

 

 

[facthunter]

Fair enough. I get the analogy. The example ( don't get me started). Nev

 

 

[Tyler Boyd]

I hope me and dad didn't have anything to do with this.....thanks......Tyler

 

 

[Admin]

Yes and No Tyler...there is a need for things like you have brought up, a very important need that I would like to support, but on the other hand I had a vision of a resource for pilots to use to help each other and these are in conflict with each other especially with Aircraft Pilots being more broad. This enables a "Forum", with a different agenda to be available for those that want to use it and leaves Aircraft Pilots to be developed as a professional resource for pilots as well yet there is only a single click between the two giving users a far greater choice in what suits their needs.

 

Aircraft Pilots will always remain as the premier resource site containing all the threads, posts and discussions that are helpful in being a pilot whilst Recreational Flying is the RAAus chat and discussions on anything purely to do with Australian RAAus recreational flying. Any threads that are started in Recreational Flying to do with such things as Aircraft etc, will be moved to Aircraft Pilots...this will be a strict policy ensuring the differentiation between the two sites. However by the same token you won't find any posts in Aircraft Pilots like "How are you going, let's meet up on Sat etc" but you will find posts about Jabiru spark plugs etc.

 

Initially it will be hard to draw the line but I feel we are going to be able to have our cake and eat it too, users will have the choice and not be bothered with what they don't want but at the same token, a single click, just like going between the forums here, will take you to either site...user registration will however be independent of each other so if you want to contribute to both sites then you will need to be registered on both.

 

Recreational Flying (.com.au) is like having a "Budget" streamlined Airline and designed to keep the RAAus honest and working correctly for all RAAus members by member input and Aircraft Pilots will have all the thrills and be the professional aviation resource where you come to get help and discuss aircraft, flying and aviation in general. Then again, if you are into the heavies and love the smell of jet fuel in the morning, then you can click to jump over to Aircraft Geeks.

 

ALL your aviation web site needs, friendships, sources of information, help, support and interests will be covered...no matter what they are

 

Hope this helps to explain things a bit further

 

 

[Guernsey]

So do I have this correct Ian, if I start a post refering to a Recreational Aircraft it will be transferred to Aircraft Pilots and no longer appear under Recreational Flying ?

 

Alan.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well you've certainly confused me.

 

Threads being moved from one site to another, possibly after several people have been contributing?

 

I see a lot of fracturing, and difficulty trying to find a subject. I was down to just clicking on what's new, had a lot of trouble finding threads even with the one site.

 

Indexing will be critical for the success of the three way split.

 

 

[Admin]

So do I have this correct Ian, if I start a post refering to a Recreational Aircraft it will be transferred to Aircraft Pilots and no longer appear under Recreational Flying ?Alan.

Depends on the post Alan...you will see what by the individual forums there are listed on each site which will give an indication of what the two sites are designed for...for example the Aircraft usergroups will be on Aircraft Pilots. As I said I am still working out the logistics of it as we speak but off the top of my head the forums in Recreational Flying could be (* means duplicated forums):

Announcements and Site News (* but Aust only announcements)

 

Just Landed*

 

Events

 

Aircraft Incidents and Accidents*

 

General Discussion (* Aust only)

 

Governing Bodies

 

Classifieds (* Aust only or for those wanting International coverage AP as well)

 

First Class Lounge*

 

Recreational Flying Pilot Supplies Shop

 

You can see by the above that they are the "Chat" types of forums and this leaves Aircraft Pilots to develop itself into a world wide resource. Remember, this site as it stands now will never ever be of any use to anyone outside of Australia due to its Australian saturation. This has been proven so many times over the last 18 months which then means that due to the low availability of income producing means of the site, the costs have to be borne by myself for ever. By developing a world class pilot resource I have an opportunity to at least derive some small return from a bigger market that will continually cover the site's costs, and my full time work. It also enables Aircraft Pilots to be free of any bickering, fighting and heavy moderation, which will be a lot more relaxed on Recreational Flying, by taking the individual forums that are conducive to strong debate out of the Aircraft Pilots resource...I am sure everyone will be happier by having the choice of what they want to be subjected to by coming here. I am very reluctant at the moment to introduce all the great new features, that cost money, when the freedoms that have been given here prevent me from at least recouping that cost...does all that make sense?

 

This way, I believe, Aircraft Pilots can become a fantastic world wide resource for all pilots, and it is something that I can manage to realise that vision...at the same time, I am providing an avenue under the management of Ahlocks and Isaacs for those that want what Aircraft Pilots, as a "resource" will not support.

 

Please also remember that I also need to get something out of what I am doing and have done for 8 years, even if it is just being able to enjoy reading your friendly posts...what is being proposed here is as I said, not going to be easy however I think after a short while it will work itself out and those that have felt that this site no longer serves them will realise that it is now doing so and with even more then before.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Here we go Ian......Suggested new hypothetical post:-

 

Guernsey Aviation in Adelaide test flies new Recreational Aircraft will be available as Factory built or Kit build, see attached photos.

 

Which site would it be on.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Admin]

Here we go Ian......Suggested new hypothetical post:-Guernsey Aviation in Adelaide test flies new Recreational Aircraft will be available as Factory built or Kit build, see attached photos.

Which site would it be on.

 

Alan.

Neither...it is a commercial post

 

 

[turboplanner]

OK, a Guernsey factory built kit crashed on takeoff when it failed to clear the fence as a result of the grade of the runway.

 

 

[Admin]

OK, a Guernsey factory built kit crashed on takeoff when it failed to clear the fence as a result of the grade of the runway.

You could put that in both if you wanted to...the difference here would be the moderation that is applied to the thread...Aircraft Pilots - NO CRAP, NO BLAME, NO NOTHING other than what we can all learn from it...Recreational Flying - refer to the Ferris Wheel accident!

 

 

[Guernsey]

Neither...it is a commercial post

Come on Ian, you know what I was getting at. Does that mean that when any aircraft manufacturer brings out a new model or engine improvement it will not be on either site because it will be classed as 'commercial'.?

 

 

[Admin]

If it is posted by the manufacturer as a means of a commercial post and without any prior request to promote their products on the site then yes...but I do know what you mean mate...I don't have all the answers at the moment as I am, as I said, still going through the logistics of it. The interaction on this is good as it serves as the checks and balances of the concept but all I know is that whilst some of you think the site is working, there are many that don't.

 

For example I could have a poll here on what users don't like which won't be much because the users voting in the poll are here because they like it...can you see my point?

 

Perhaps I am grasping at straws but I don't see any comments on any other solution being made.

 

In answer to your question, the only manufacturers that would even consider posting here anyway would only be Australian ones and that is just a few...if the site was more International then you would have hundreds of manufacturers, even ones whose aircraft are not in Australia of which there are hundreds, wanting to announce their new aircraft etc here...how good would that be for ALL the users...incredible...however, any aviator coming here will be saturated with Australian posts. By what I am proposing will hopefully end up helping users as well by making Aircraft Pilots have more worldly information whilst at the same time providing them with an avenue to speak up on issues like RAAus cancelling Junior Membership etc...if they want to.

 

Are the potential benefits all around worth the "nutting out" together of a good working solution?

 

 

[dazza 38]

When are the changes going to kick off Ian ?

 

 

[Admin]

When are the changes going to kick off Ian ?

I am still working it all out...working out the best way to do it for everyone so "How To" comments are appreciated...or alternatives as well

 

 

[Guernsey]

Sounds good to me Ian but you will have to change your Avatar then steer us in the right direction

 

Alan..

 

 

[Admin]

The logistics of all this are proving to be far too difficult. After thinking that it would work well, another issue with it pops up. For example PMs. After sleeping on it I am still finding that this just may be far too difficult and whilst a single login can be achieved with the old software it can't be, without a lot of cost, with the current software and then there is the issue of smooth upgrades and the problems associated with be-spoke development. The potential benefits are there though

 

I am open to any suggestions if any one has one...how can we provide a system where Australian users can speak up, chat openly and discuss issues relating specifically to Australia and RAAus whilst maintaining and without biasing a professional world wide resource that is enticing to everyone no matter where they may be???

 

 

[turboplanner]

In my opinion you had it a few months ago, but just didn't allow the year or so for things to develop, which I'll admit is one of the frustrations of marketing. Good marketers are into watching grass grow.

 

As someone already mentioned, the strength of this site is its contributors - people with personality - and they primarily fly for recreation, not necessarily in RA aircraft.

 

When you alter that image, some people drift away to where they can find a recreational theme, so I think RecreationalFlying is a key brand.

 

AircraftPilots might appear to be a resource, but you are then competing directly with the main US sites, and as I mentioned, looking at around 5 to 10 years to grow to full potential.

 

If that did occur the local interests of Australian Pilots would be buried and they would depart he scene for an Australian site.

 

As a marketer, my take on the existing international sites is that they are on Recflying. My conclusion is that less than a dozen regular RecFlying posters are regulrly visiting the US Sites, and the fact that they post here rather than there is very telling.

 

So my take is:

 

Put ads on RecFlying, we've all supported that many times

 

Let RecFlying be the single icon for recreational aviation it has always been.

 

Let it low freely with its strength, the posters, being able to express their opinions without being overly censored.

 

If you want to created a worldwide site, fine, set up AircraftPilots totally separate for its genuine market, without fracturing your existing customer base who inevitably will become frustrated by disappearing posts, duplicated discussions etc. Let it stand or fall on its own image.

 

Aircraft Geeks? I've been an aircraft enthusiast since I drew them when I was 9, made control line models when I was 13, flew one (well with a white knuckle instructor when I was 16), but I wouldn't go within a mile of a site by that name.

 

Sometimes when you are working 20 hours a day the trees get in the way of the wood, and you need to sit back for a while and just let things find their own level.

 

When you already have the best Australian Site by far, and the best resources, the posters, by far why not consolidate it?

 

 

[dazza 38]

I couldnt agree more with Turbo.Thats how I see it. Also I would call Aircraft Geeks, Aircraft Enthusiasts.If you would like to start that site up.

 

 

[Guernsey]

I've just clicked the ' like ' button on Turbo's post which is not enough.

 

I have read through his fairly long post to see if I can comment on any single suggestion but couldn't find one, which is a bit unusual for me even if it is only a comical one, so in my opinion Turbo has hit all the nails on the head.

 

Serious Alan.

 

 

[Admin]

Thanks TP, great constructive comment!

 

What I would like to see discussions on are things like this:

 

 

It's a Belite Aircraft and I am sure there isn't many Australian recreational aviators know or have heard about these yet they are just so cheap to buy and that in itself would be helpful

 

Or one of the largest selling recreational aircraft in the US:

 

 

Or has anyone ever seen or heard of this aircraft that sells around 25 to 30 a year in the US:

 

 

We never get to hear about these with our closed Aussie blinkers on nor are we able to entice owners of these type of aircraft here to talk about them when nearly everything here has an Aussie element. Although I also want users to be able to discuss things RAAus. Then there is the site costs and having the large world wide manufacturers supporting the site would not only see the site costs covered but maybe provide some food on my table as well whilst at the same time bringing such a broad range of aviation information to everyone...that is the dilemma...Financial, Interest and Users, every time I throw these 3 into the pot I end up with mud