Important Announcement

[dazza 38]

Peter Harlow is starting to Import the Belite I think.Ian.Early next year.Well its nearly next year.lol

 

 

[Guernsey]

The financial issue could be helped by advertisers using the site and by substantialy more 'Regular' forumites becoming First Class Members but we all know the latter will never come about.

 

Dissapointed Alan.

 

 

[Admin]

I sell all the Belite Instruments...have them all here currently in stock

 

 

[Admin]

Also I would call Aircraft Geeks, Aircraft Enthusiasts.If you would like to start that site up.

Thanks, I have just registered AircraftEnthusiasts.com

 

 

[Guernsey]

Thanks, I have just registered AircraftEnthusiasts.com

Enthusiasm is catching

 

Alan.

 

 

[turboplanner]

There is nothing to stop you making money in the International market.

 

That just has to be approached so you target that market (which is not the miniscule Australian market)

 

I'm currently working on product design of a US product. My job is to make it work in Australia. There is no retail link at all between the parent US market and the Australian market, they each stand on their own feet.

 

We would certainly have mud if we tried to use a common communication channel.

 

The secret is to launch separate sites for separate markets.

 

 

[Admin]

Thanks TP, that's what I thought I was trying to do although probably a bit muddier then what you are saying

 

 

[Admin]

Ok, we will move back to Recreational Flying (.com)...users don't need to worry as it is simply flicking a switch with the new server...would only take about 10mins

 

 

[Guernsey]

Hooray.....now I feel at home.

 

Alan.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Perhaps have the RAAus / governing bodies forums subject to an extra registration process so that only those wanting to enter can do so - a bit like the First Class Lounge. That way most people hitting "What's New" don't get these messages and anyone the Moderators feel need to cool their heels for a while can have their privileges to those forums curtailed for a season without banning them from the whole site. Needs a Sticky that details forum rules and warnings on content for the easily offended.

 

Another forum I have been thinking about is the Radio Controlled and Scale modellers - there are a number of RC forumites on the site already. Modelling involves the same design considerations as the full scales and appreciation of various marques; in short a lot of synergy there. Most of the Aust sites are hosted by hobby shops. The downside - there might be calls for sub forums for non aviation RCs (eg cars).

 

As for revenue, perhaps a suggestion to people who have sold something through the site for a small donation. Annual renewal for the First Class members. I am hoping to get to the RAAus Northern Fly-in at Monto with a tent (shade shelter or whatever), put the kettle on and rattle the tin for Friends of RecFlying / Aust Pilots.

 

Sue

 

 

[facthunter]

Perhaps for the really "political" stuff, the participants might have to be more forthcoming on their pecunary interests and identity. Nev

 

 

[Admin]

Thanks Sue...just throwing an idea out to all...how about the Country Specific forums be done in this way, using the following Australia example as a template:

 

1. In the forum list displayed on the main forums page there is one titled "Australia and NZ"

 

2. Click that and a list of forums are displayed like:

 

Aust/NZ Announcements

 

General Discussion

 

Classifieds

 

Governing Bodies etc

 

3. It will look like the way the "Media" section is done now...click Media on the Main menu and the two Media forums are displayed

 

4. Clicking "What's New" when on the main forums page only displays new posts for all the forums in the main list

 

5. Clicking "What's New" when in the Australian section displays new posts that are just in the Australian specific forums

 

The above is the same for US/Canada, UK/Europe, Sth Africa/Asia and Other

 

Search would still be site wide though

 

The only negative if you could call it one would be that the country specific forums are not displayed on the main forums home page

 

 

[turboplanner]

Perhaps have the RAAus / governing bodies forums subject to an extra registration process so that only those wanting to enter can do so - a bit like the First Class Lounge. That way most people hitting "What's New" don't get these messages

So let me get this straight.

 

1. If I happen to come on to the site, I must be prevented from accidentally clicking on something to do with RAA?

 

2. If I click on What's New, the evils of RAA will be shielded from me?

 

Well in the interests of anti - discrimination, I don't follow "building the couger"

 

So should that also have a membership only, and a bar from What's New? (In which case if this was carried across, What's New would be empty.

 

Please bear in mind that an extraordinary set of circumstances occurred prior to the last elections, which a number of people brought out into the open. Opposing them were a number of people who had very good reason to keep some things buried, and thanks to their bullying, and some hangers on who had fun throwing spanners in the spokes, we were not able to fully uncover the facts. However, the huge plus from the several split and butchered threads saw a major change via an election, and sent a message to the oard of management which could never have been done via older methods such as meeting attendances.

 

There will be people, with agendas, who will continue to try and stifle debate; we should not be bending over to them, but ensuring that the Association operates in a transparent and progessive manner.

 

I'm happy enough to log on to this site, then click the subjects I'm interested in (probably about 10%) without making a Federal Case out of what anyone else is interested in.

 

Is that so hard to do?

 

 

[Guernsey]

FlyingVizsla stated " Annual renewal for the First Class Members ", I have just recently renewed my membership as my year was up, does this mean Ian that you do not send out reminders and if not do you remove their First Class Member status and if not, why not ?

 

Alan.

 

 

[Admin]

The software doesn't automatically send out reminders but once the time is up it automatically removes the first class membership from their user account

 

 

[Guernsey]

 

 

[David Isaac]

Why are we suggesting hiding anything, isn't this all about appropriate open debate. No one is holding a gun at anyone's head and forcing them to read any thread on this site or any other for that matter. If someone doesn't like a subject in a thread they are free to NOT participate. If you hide interesting discussion you minimise what is new. Some may have complained about previous threads on Governing bodies, but what is undeniable is that a hell of a lot participated. So who really wins when you shut down good constructive discussion ... the bad guys ... and who loses ... the site and the members.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

So let me get this straight.....

 

I'm happy enough to log on to this site, then click the subjects I'm interested in (probably about 10%) without making a Federal Case out of what anyone else is interested in.

 

Is that so hard to do?

Some people find it hard to do ... Ian and the Moderators would be able enlarge on that one, but I just see things that don't cause me offence being removed / altered and assume it is because someone stumbled across the thread and was grossly offended, and people removing themselves over what I thought was trivial. I don't ascribe to the modern attitude that somehow Society has to protect me from anything that might upset me or anyone that might take umbrage over my point of view, but obviously some here do.

 

The managers of the forum have allowed the Gov Bodies forum to run to seed, then did a bit of selective weeding, then put a fence around it (hid), opened it up again, and none of these solutions pleased everyone. So my suggestion was limited segregation - only those willing to accept that the discussion could get rather robust agree to enter - and in so doing limit their avenues for appeal to have posts or persons removed. There would be no limitation on the people allowed to "sign up", but only those who did would get new threads from that forum on their "What's New" in addition to the many new threads posted on all the other discussions. There is already a similarly closed forum "First Class Members' Lounge" (and if you can't get in and wondering what goes on behind closed doors ... give the site a donation and you can see all...)

 

I see the RAA / Governing Bodies forum as important so I will be continuing to follow it in whatever form it takes. I was very interested in the debates that went on pre and post election, and for the first time I believe I put in an informed vote. My sincere thanks to all who contributed.

 

I am also mindful that the site owners have to be careful in regard to legal issues that may arise from allowing some posts. The site is privately owned, and in the end it is the Owners' decision, not ours, that will be held liable.

 

Hope I haven't offended anyone ....

 

Sue

 

 

[Admin]

Again I think the point is getting lost...sure, I want to have Gov Bodies, I want to allow freedom of speech and all at the same time that a person doesn't get ganged up on for having a different opinion AND that there doesn't end up any legal issues...but the point that is getting lost is that, that is RAAus discussion and Australian only discussion, and who the hell is RAAus to a person in NZ or any where else for that matter, what about flying a Belite over the Rockies and the great scenery etc, that is the segregation issue. RAAus discussion does NOT pay the bills of the site nor does it put any food on my table for my family but RAAus discussion is what some want regardless of the new, different and exciting aspects of aviation from all around the world, which would also pay the bills and makes the site appealing to a guest user to join in and have fun...the question is "How on earth can we have both?"

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Again I think the point is getting lost...sure, I want to have Gov Bodies, I want to allow freedom of speech and all at the same time that a person doesn't get ganged up on for having a different opinion AND that there doesn't end up any legal issues...but the point that is getting lost is that, that is RAAus discussion and Australian only discussion, and who the hell is RAAus to a person in NZ or any where else for that matter, what about flying a Belite over the Rockies and the great scenery etc, that is the segregation issue. RAAus discussion does NOT pay the bills of the site nor does it put any food on my table for my family but RAAus discussion is what some want regardless of the new, different and exciting aspects of aviation from all around the world, which would also pay the bills and makes the site appealing to a guest user to join in and have fun...the question is "How on earth can we have both?"

Ian ...I believe you cant have both and you should stop trying. RAAus has nothing to do with this site. They should have their own forum for their member's to discuss what they want and let them moderate it. Its not your job to provide a resource for the RAAus. Rec Flying should then be a world wide resource with little Australian bias and allow anyone to advertise for a fee. When I come here I dont want to read BS from certain stirrers who happen to unfortunately have an interest in aviation as well. You dont need to trawl through many posts to see who these members are. I want technical advise from the very skilled and experienced members on here and hopefully in return give them some sort of reward for sharing. Im not looking for a free ride but im not paying money for BS either! I cant be bothered reading BS from someone who wants to appear to know more than the next member. Its non productive and the reason why I frequent this forum less than I have done in the past. Im a builder and would like to see a section for other builders in my area who I can contact for advise and sharing the joy of building. I have heard through the grape vine there are several builders in my area but have no way of knowing who they are or how to contact them. EAA and SAAA have similar local build groups or chapters.

 

You cant expect to run this resource by not charging for it. I understand you would rather not the member pay so do what many others have suggested and charge for advertising. Maybe advertise in some of the international Rec flying magazines as a start. Thats how I found this site.

 

Scotty

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Segregation and integration of various countries' discussions. Quite a vexed question.

 

What's unique to each country (and even each type: microlight, GA etc) -

 

• Aviation law & some training questions (eg syllabus, exams)
   
   
  
• Governing bodies & aircraft classifications, registrations
   
   
  
• Destinations (events, guess the airport, where to learn, Club news etc)
   
   
  
• Off Topic
   
   
  

 

 

What is common worldwide:-

 

• Aircraft - types, sale, design, guess the plane, building, parts, operation, spotting
   
   
  
• Pilots - airmanship, camararderie, Just Landed, flying technique & most training, trips
   
   
  
• Laughter - I'm sure there's a Blue Oyster Bar O/S and the Irish won't be too offended
   
   
  
• Flight Sim, Apps, photography
   
   
  
• Flying types - gliding, heli, Aeros, Warbirds etc
   
   
  
• Videos, media and lots more ....
   
   
  

 

 

Unfortunately there is going to be some overlap either through threads starting in the 'wrong' place or mutating to country specific. This could be overcome with thread splitting and moving (a big job for someone!) It's like turning the family home into a boarding house - the kids will still want to run through all the rooms until they eventually settle to what is theirs.

 

Conversely the forum may have to accept that, in the future, there will be discussions on the FAA, BMA and other countries' aviation bodies and clubs that may eclipse ours and the question of a unique Australia site will arise again. I look forward to the overseas content. I think we are yet to plumb the depths of potential. I am still giving the EAA virtual chapter some thought and the idea of aircraft manufacturers' and agents on-line and the chat room facilities, directories, income streams and potential of worldwide exposure is too good to pass up.

 

An even simpler version of segregation - the country specific could be encapsulated into Local Regs (bodies, type specifics, law, exams).

 

For Everything else - ditch the type segregation GA/ultralight to avoid confusion between various countries' classifications and it will be understandable. The only problem is getting cluttered.

 

Hope there's something usable in all that ....

 

Sue

 

 

[Yenn]

Over the years this was an RAAus forum basicly, There was little input from non ultralighr fliers.

 

Now that it has changed to serve all pilots, anywhere, of course there will be little interest in our petty squabbles, but it is going to take a little while for us all to wake up to the fact that this forum has changed.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Ian,

 

Is it possible to have one site resource onto which can you log from two different domain names; one domain name sends to you to a different section to the other domain name, but once you are in the main resource you can also choose which areas you want to participate in.

 

Would that not solve the issues for the different interests and view points as Scotty 'Bubbleboy' has suggested.

 

I and many others have suggested to you on many occasions you should be putting advertising on the resource to fund the development and provide an income for your family; I think you are nuts if you don't do this. The world is not a benevolent society and if you go broke doing all this work you lose and so do we indirectly.

 

It is all the contributors combined; the BS ones (as Scotty puts it) and the others that draw traffic to your site, cutting out the participation of any group in particular from my limited understanding will limit the site traffic and Google ratings in whatever form they are.

 

Whilst I agree with Scotty that the RAAus should have their own forum ... they haven't and who knows when and their is always the conflict of interest angle when it comes to moderation when the criticism level rises.

 

 

[Admin]

Not sure I follow...but isn't that what I was going to do (note in red):

 

Ian,Is it possible to have one site resource "Aircraft Pilots" onto which can you log from two different domain names; "Aircraft Pilots and Recreational Flying" one domain name "Aircraft Pilots" sends to you to a different section to the other domain name "Recreational Flying" and vice-a-versa, but once you are in the main resource you can also choose which areas you want to participate in. "no single login...you have to log in to each or either only"

or have I got that wrong

 

 

[ahlocks]

.. If someone doesn't like a subject in a thread they are free to NOT participate.

Yeah, pretty easy hey. Unfortunately it doesn't seem happen that way DBI.

I'm keen on an opt in only area where a 'problem thread' is punted off to if it starts to get unruly. No stifling of the debate by having to remove posts or moderate, rather, the thread is moved to an area where registered members who have 'opted in' can duke out an issue without disturbing disinterested members or guests. If a participant then takes offence about something in that area or gets their nose bloodied, well too bad so sad, they opted in for it.

 

A couple of forums I subscribe to have such an area for 18+ humour. It seems to work well for them.