Clear Prop

[djpacro]

I was just watching this video on YouTube:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSuBhJtcdT8

 

You can't see anything at the front of you when sitting in the cockpit yet the pilot just quickly looks to the left, says "clear prop" and almost immediately cranks the engine.

 

I wonder if he knows the reason for those words?

 

Personally, I don't use those words.

 

 

[Powerin]

What words do you use DJ? "Clear prop" has always seemed to me to be something said for tradition's sake (I was taught to use it). The term wouldn't mean much to someone without an aviation background would it?...and they are the most likely people to be near a prop without recognising the danger. Something like "Stand clear" makes more sense to me, or even "stand clear engine starting".

 

 

[av8vfr]

To me seems a bit ridiculous in this day and age. Back when the prop went "live" with ignition, yes a call was made for the hand throw..., but in tricycle gear, seriously the dude would have to be crouching in front of the gear leg not to be seen...

 

However we live in the times that we have to be seen to make the professional yell from the cockpit for "safety". And this is during a time when you need an ASIC just to get through the perimeter gate... WTF??

 

 

[facthunter]

You can modify them if you wish. I use "starting engine, clear prop". IF you do these things like a robot they won't mean much, same as all checks. It is a message to yourself as much as anything, that you're putting things aeroplane in motion and to have your brain in gear.

 

Putting on the red rotating beacon signalled to other aircraft that the engines will be starting. On larger aircraft you would look out the window prior to turning engines as much to check engine stands , service vehicles (and personell) are clear. Nev

 

 

[av8vfr]

IF you do these things like a robot they won't mean much, same as all checks. It is a message to yourself as much as anything, that you're putting things aeroplane in motion and to have your brain in gear.

A lot of checks are like a robot and hopefully the engine fail checks are the same...automatically carried out without compromise..

Hopefully your brain is in gear long before your "clear prop" call....

 

 

[robinsm]

What about those wandering around on a busy, noisy day at the airfeild. They just may appreciate you not starting the engine without warning. I know we are meant to have a good look around before starting up but how many area concentrating on switched, chokes and settings and only give a cursory glance up before pushing the button. I have seen it happen on a few occaisions and the only indication we had that the mincer was about to fire was his call of Clear prop (made more out of habit than thought I assume). I call it every time, even when there's no one around so it becomes a no thought habit. (reminds me of the one about the air hostess that backed into a spinning propeller .......................................)

 

 

[facthunter]

Think you're talking about actions av8r. Since you disagree with what I have said could you make your point clearer? I am happy to elaborate on what I mean. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

I've always been trained in closed cockpit aircraft where "Clear Prop" cannot be heard outside where it's required.

 

I always say it as a check but take the responsibility for clearing the prop area by looking left then right and ensuring the prop area is clear.

 

The starter motor then makes a very effective warning signal.

 

(I haven't flown any aircraft where the nose is high and presents a vision issue.)

 

I've certainly been with many pilots who've called "Clear Prop" with no chance of anyone hearing them, and no eye scan - sort of ritual.

 

 

[Powerin]

I just think if you're going to yell out a warning it should be something that is understood by everybody, aviator or not. In reality probably the most effective thing would be to have a reversing beeper on the front of an aircraft that activates with the mags (and deactivates on start...maybe with the alternator warning light). Nearly everyone knows to stand clear when they hear a beeper.

 

 

[Powerin]

But if we're talking reality, in this day and age how many people have been injured by a prop on engine start? (it may be more than I think)

 

 

[av8vfr]

Hi Nev, no disrespect regarding your post.

 

I agree with having your nav/strobe lights on to signal other A/C for a start.

 

But stray persons should not be on an airfield unaccompanied regardless.(clear prop???)

 

All I am saying is that the captain is responsible for the pax from the airfield through to the return...regardless how dumb pax are, and there are some jurassic methods in our ways atm...

 

 

[facthunter]

A propellor is a very lethal object. In what other workplace would an unguarded dangerous object like an aircraft propellor, be tolerated as it is around aeroplanes. Most LAME's I know are extremely cautious of them and they work around them all the time. Even bumping into a static one can gouge a great hunk of flesh from you. Any reasonable safety precaution available should be utilised. If aircraft are parked on an apron where people are moving around, I would recommend that someone should be around the area keeping a lookout for people moving in the vicinity, and signalling "clear" to the pilot before he even thinks of starting the engine. Don't fall into the trap of thinking it doesn't happen much. Being alert to the problem is a good start point to make it happen less. People shouldn't be milling around planes airside. There's kids and dogs etc all a bit casual.

 

Sorry av8r I hadn't read your last post before this one.

 

I'm all for any PIC being responsible for the "show". Accepting responsibility is part of the deal, in Aviation. It is in a lot of other things too, but not quite so obvious. Nev

 

 

[pudestcon]

I always yell "Clear the propeller" and have a damned good look around before pressing the starter switch. It leaves me cold just thinking about that lethal weapon spinning around out the front, and barely noticeable, and the consequences for anyone (and me!) if they were to tangle with the prop. Now I have moved my Thruster to a remote farm strip where in all probability I will be the only one around most times, the challenge will be in not forgetting to make all procedural calls, including radio. I have already noticed I am getting a bit slack.

 

Pud

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I don't think it matters what people say, but it would be great if they left more than a micro second before hitting the starter.

 

 

[turboplanner]

We're talking about a second or so here.

 

A second later the engine is running and that should provide the warning, but it doesn't always, so I think the beeper idea would be a great step forward

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Still a very current requirement in my opionion both as a pilot and engineer. I have had a Beaver prop start cranking in close proximity to me while I was doing a last wipe down of the belly. It was a younger professional (?) pilot in the cockpit who made no call, and I can guarantee you he heard from me in no uncertain terms !. He does call now. Where were these people trained ?.

 

It is certainly not wasted effort, and I'll do it even when alone. By doing it I become aware of the prop area before cranking.

 

If it eliminates only one serious injury, or death, during my flying career than it's certainly been worth it.

 

Actually I wouldn't have a problem with it being made a regulatory requirement in the same fashion as you are required to fully exercise the flight controls prior to flying. That has certainly saved lives in the past........................................................Maj... CLEAR PROP !!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Actually the pitts pilot did yell 'clear prop' through an open cockpit, and did look foward prior to starting. I really enjoyed the aero footage. It quite interesting watching how the fabric on the tail flexes, the boom mike didn't have a chance, a nice slipping approach for additional vizability on final, interesting head movements in the flare, and LOTS of rudder action after touchdown....................................................................Maj...

 

 

[djpacro]

He seems like a very good pilot and his start technique probably very safe at that location. However in a Pitts (and some other taildraggers) you can't see anything in front (I once saw a Pitts taxi into a Chipmunk just after start - the Chipmunk wasn't there when the pilot got into the Pitts) so it is good to look but not a lot of use. At an airshow or fly-in, as well as a security-controlled airport (an ASIC doesn't stop some-one unseen wandering up to have a look at the aeroplane) you should expect people around you who are not concentrating on the hazard close to them so a shout outside is the only means of ensuring that the prop area is clear - so the words need to be understood well enough by anyone who may be there and given enough time to respond or move before starting.

 

 

[.Evan.]

I just think if you're going to yell out a warning it should be something that is understood by everybody, aviator or not. In reality probably the most effective thing would be to have a reversing beeper on the front of an aircraft that activates with the mags (and deactivates on start...maybe with the alternator warning light).

Sounds like a good idea, P!

 

Nearly everyone knows to stand clear when they hear a beeper.

I'm not entirely sure of that... I regularly have to reverse my work's ten tonne truck through public events, schools, retirement villages, you name it. Regardless of how big, noisy, beepy it is, people still walk behind a reversing large truck - even with guides trying to keep the area clear!

 

 

[kaz3g]

....I once saw a Pitts taxi into a Chipmunk just after start - the Chipmunk wasn't there when the pilot got into the Pitts..

Now that would make the place untidy!

 

Reminds me of one of Dick Gower's "Carruthers" stories... I'll ask if I can get a copy to post here.

 

kaz

 

 

[HeadInTheClouds]

I was taught to say it right from my first TIF, and I was under the impression that it was also to let people who may be standing behind the aircraft past the boundary fence that a blast of propwash is coming. The airfield I am learning as is really quiet and spread out, that and the fact that you can almost see the nosewheel while sitting in the Foxbat means that it probably doesnt help much, but I will still say it nonetheless!

 

On a similar note I was pre-flighting the Foxbat one morning at around 7:30 am, no one around at all when all of a sudden I hear "Clear prop" and look around to see where it came from, only to hear a Piper Warrior sputtering into life about 150 metres away from me. Even though me and him were probably the only ones outside of the hangars he still said it! Good to see someone else caring about safety so much.

 

On a similar note, 'clear prop' might not be of much use in an aircraft which sounds like this on startup (The spooling of the turbine should be warning enough!)

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

When I trained in a C152 we did all the pre-startup checks which included locking the doors and windows, then do a 360 degree lookout to ensure there was nothing that could be affected by the startup. The only person who would hear a "clear prop" call was the instructor beside you so it wasn't much use. I do think it is a good idea though especially on an airfield with little or no security and lots of light aircraft and people about and especially if you're starting up a tailie.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I open the door and yell out "Clear Prop or sometimes "Stand Clear Starting" depends on the mood. In a Piper cherokee, since there is no pilot door.I used to open the storm window and yell out."Why is there no pilot door" Then yell out "Clear prop". Well I dont yell out the "Why is there no pilot door.I just feel like saying that.

 

 

[av8vfr]

Expanding on what I said earlier, I was taught to have the lights on way before an engine start (approx. 5 mins) (rotating beacon, nav lights..). This allowed fellow aircrew a visual warning of live engines. (even if not running) Also, ground staff had to be aware the engines were live while lights were flashing. (but engines are off)

 

However, this didn't allow for Joe Public as they didn't know about the lights.

 

Nowadays, Joe Public can't venture onto an airfield without an ASIC escort,.. so with the appropriate ASIC escort there should be no randoms on an airfield??

 

But we all know Joe Public does end up on the field and hence the warning.... a bit old school considering... I am not saying it is wrong but I have never seen anyone near me during a start....

 

 

[Yenn]

I try to keep tabs on who or what is around when starting. I can see an adult n front of me, but children and dogs are a problem and they will not understand a shout of "clear prop" I fthere are others around, just look directly at another pilot who can see for you. they always seem to get the message and will give you the all clear if it is safe. My biggest fear is dogs, not that I am too worried about maiming them, but a prop is expensive. I believe a dog strike happened to a GA plane a few years ago and the pilot checked his prop, it seemed OK so he returned to his base and the prop was just about ready to fall of when he arrived. I think I read it in Flight Safety.