passenger forced power failure in flight

[G-OMER]

While flying over norfolk UK on Friday 13th 2K ish height, 100ish knots I developed a power failure, I immediatly pulled the nose up to 60 knots, leveled off, then looked at the instruments, all ok and 1K rpm still on the motor, I advised the passanger we have had a power failure when he said oh I think I knocked this lever (the throttle)jez hit my lever and power back on. guts picked up off the floor and placed into sick bag and carry on with flight, lesson learned, go for the throttle first, I am wondering how far I would of got before touching the throttle? I suppose once realising 1K still on the tacho and prop turning I would of gone for the lever, seconds passed but it seemed a long time. I did advise the passanger before T/O not to touch the lever, think I will take it off now.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

[Deskpilot]

That was part of my Passenger Endorsement training.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Went through various scenarios like that in my training. While flying along, the CFI would quietly pull the hand throttle on, so when you came to descend, the engine stayed at the same revs, proving you forgot to check the hand throttle on downwind. On one occasion, he pulled it on after I'd checked it. On other occasions, he pulled the choke on to make the engine run rough or switched one ignition circuit off. The latter two during a Nav.

 

Just being told about the possibilities often does not stick in the brain, but if you experience them, you know where to check and under what circumstances.

 

A few weeks back I encountered fuel starvation on climb-out in a formation stream take-off. I immediately backed off on the throttle and could maintain altitude. Radioed the flight leader that I was returning to the field due to rough running engine, and peeled off onto down-wind. Tried to climb again and after a few seconds, fuel starvation again, so backed off and just completed the circuit to land.

 

It isn't the same as a situation where you lose ability to maintain altitude, but these are the contingencies we train to manage. I dare say you will go straight to check the throttle next time. Experience is a great teacher.

 

 

[J170 Owner]

I remember a throttle friction nut on the Tomahawk. One would tighten it to stop the throttle setting creeping. Anyway, engine failure, first thing I do is move the throttle through its full range of motion, but I cannot remember if I was actually taught to do that or not.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I tend to find this is the 2nd thing I do, the first is that I tend to move my pucker valve over its full range of motion and that tends to be involuntary....

Andy

[Guest davidh10]

I remember a throttle friction nut on the Tomahawk. One would tighten it to stop the throttle setting creeping. Anyway, engine failure, first thing I do is move the throttle through its full range of motion, but I cannot remember if I was actually taught to do that or not.

The trike has a similar hand throttle which acts as the minimum throttle settting. One of my PAX managed, during flight, to push it past the end stop so it could not be operated. Not a big deal, but just shows that anything can happen.

During my PAX test, the CFI surreptitiously pulled on the hand throttle on final. It only takes a split second to realise the likely cause of the stuck throttle. (I fly powered approaches).

 

 

[Ultralights]

isn't checking the throttle part of the emergency checklist? FMOST anyone?

 

 

[Tomo]

isn't checking the throttle part of the emergency checklist? FMOST anyone?

Yup!

 

 

[Yenn]

So what is you engine failure checklist?

 

 

[G-OMER]

butt nip, pull back to 60 kts. spot a field, then check dash board switches etc, fuel valve, hit the start button. if nothing call mayday x3 etc then concentrate on landing. what I was tought for GST.

 

 

[turboplanner]

isn't checking the throttle part of the emergency checklist? FMOST anyone?

I often notice those formal procedures missing in RA discussions, much harder if you're just looking around at anything in front of you.

 

 

[facthunter]

What you should do would depend on how the engine stopped, but I guess there is a 'generic" checklist.

 

Discussions are fine though as you can asses the validity of your approach, to the actions you consider to be the most appropriate, in your circumstances

 

As an example, IF the engine made a horrible noise and vibrated and then locked up, what would be the point of doing anything towards starting it up again?

 

You might be more appropriately pay attention to the possibility of a fire and isolate electrics and fuel

 

Incorrect fuel selection or inadequate fuel on board is often a factor.

 

Some engines would not like to be restarted on full throttle.

 

In any case unless you are at a good height, there is not a lot of time to be wasted.

 

If an engine is backfiring badly a reduction of the throttle setting may make some power available, but you have to assess the risks of leaving a "damaged" engine running, against the benefit of having the power for a short while.

 

Some engine failures are "partial". You may have dropped a valve or the head may have broken at the shrink band. ( fairly common with high time engines). The internals of the engine are still free to rotate and the other cylinders may deliver power, but you may have a lot of oil leaking and the possibility of fire.

 

You have to weigh it up. There's not much point in saving your precious engine if it is going to be destroyed by contact with a cliff face anyhow, where a minute or so of extra running would have got you over the cliff. Nev

 

 

[Planechaser]

For me, the check list is the fallback position once you have checked what you think the problem will be, and setting up for the glide should probably be going on sub contiously. But unless your mind is absolutly elsewhere, (like in your ipod music or talking book!!) it really does depend on how the motor stops.

 

I was trained that everything red goes off in an engine failure, presumably to lessen the chance of dammaging the expensive engine more or blowing the aircraft up when you "touch down". But this was really training for the student flying your plane, or someone flying an aircraft they have no knowledge other than what is printed on the laminated A5 page in the cabin.

 

Engine starts to choke, in the real world, check your fuel taps are on, but make damn sure your nose is aiming for 60kts as you do it.

 

Even in aviation, it is usually the simplest explination, I have found.

 

I have also found that the deciding factor in any situation is hight! If my motor coughed in a mustering turn, it would be flattened out and on the ground before I could take the next breath. Aviate is always the first. Fly, or land, the plane, and everything else comes second, even checks.

 

May I also say, on a side note, that if you are mechanicly minded and do your aircraft maintenance your self, or annoy the person doing in by hanging to them like a bad smell, you just know what is happening to your ship. And when you don't, you make it your business to find out. Something I missed in my short stint with GA ships.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Getting back to the original scenario where the passenger knocked the throttle - what sort of throttle have you got? The one on the dash or on the front of the seat?

 

I have a 430 with the throttle on the front of the seat and had a number of throttle knocked off by passenger (usually preceded by the passenger doing a bit of shuffling around so I learned early to "predetect" and expect what the cause of the engine failure was :-) )

 

Anyway after a few of them I built a surround out of epoxy which protects the throttle from shuffling heels but still leaves it there for the pax to fly if needed (I do a number of trips with two pilots so we need the throttle in place.)

 

If you want a look at the guard look at www.jabiru430.com . I'm happy to give advice on making one if you think it will help.

 

cheers

 

Jaba

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Getting back to the original problem of the passenger knocking the throttle. What type do you have - the one on the seat front or the dash?

 

I have a 430 with the seat front type and have had numerous passengers knock it with heels (despite a warning preflight) so much in fact that that I learned to expect it when I saw the pax start to shuffle around.

 

Anyway after a few I built a guard around the throttle so I could keep it there and functional but have it protected as well.

 

If it is of interest have a look at http://www.jabiru430.com/throttle_guard.html

 

If you think it would be of help I can advise on making one.

 

Cheers

 

Jaba-who

 

 

[Planechaser]

Neat idea with the surround. I hadn't even considered that!

 

The Foxy has dual throttles down the outside of the seat, and because of the nature of most of my flying(low and/ or technical) I fly with my left hand resting on the throttle. Because of the placement this is not as inconveniant as it may sound. I started mustering/spotting in a 172 A. Holding on to that dash throttle was a real pain!!

 

Larger passangers do have a tendancy to move the throttle around with their leg, or try to. They usually know they are doing it( like your pax Gary) but usually don't say anything.

 

Don't know if I would be game to take the lever right off. If the pax needed to manitulate the throttle for any reason it is a long reach over my to use mine, especially if they are trying to keep the plane under control.

 

 

[G-OMER]

mine is front of the seat one. I have took it off now and put a collar on. I think I will make a new collar and handle so if needs be the handle can be screwed into the collar. loved your build web site

 

Cheers

 

Gary Omer