A serious question of what to do if you get "caught".

[J170 Owner]

OK, Bad title - kinda.But I don't know how better to attract people to the thread and (maybe) get some serious discussion going.

 

Scenario:

 

You are going on a Cross Country trip. You've planned it, weather good, fuel stops at good places.

 

A couple of long legs between airports, but nothing to worry about.

 

Now, to the question/problem:

 

You are off, everything is good. About an hour into the flight and "in the middle of no-where" you need to go!

 

I'm not talking about, rumble rumble. I may need to go in about 30 minutes.

 

You need to go NOW! Say maybe 3 minutes at the outside.

 

I know it is part of planning allowing for these kind of things, but "$hit happens" as it were.

 

Sometimes you can't pick when this sort of thing is going to happen. So in a moment of curiossity, I was seriously wondering:

 

What would you do?

 

Obviously land and deal with the problem, but I mean at the actual time it happens.

 

Yeah, ok, not nice to think about. But seriously, it can happen - though I don't think I would wish it on anyone.

 

Thoughts?

THE ADVANTAGE OF OWNING YOUR OWN PLANE, NOBODY NEED KNOW.

 

 

[J170 Owner]

C'mon Doug. That is not as straightforward as one might think and I am not going to recommend it. . I crapped myself walking home from school when I was a kid. I didn't enjoy it but the world didn't end. Muck up your outlanding and you are in the sh**. anyhow. Nev

Hope it wasn't high school!

 

 

[Mazda]

Tip one - never pass a toilet without stopping, and always go before you fly. Make sure you tell your passengers.

 

Tip two - plan your trips according to your own endurance, not that of the aircraft.

 

Tip three - of course you can take a bottle, but if you are hot and sweaty enough you won't need to go as much.

 

It is lower pressure inside, so here is a story involving number 2s. A ferry pilot told me he rarely needed to do number ones (due to tip 3) and virtually never had to do number 2s, but he carried an ice cream container for the purpose. On a ferry flight from Asia he was suffering after a particularly nasty tummy problem, so used the ice cream container. All good, but he wanted to dispose of the contents (over water I should think). He didn't have the lid, which was unfortunate. He opened the canopy and threw out the contents, which came straight back in and he wore it to his destination.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Just noticed this forum and want to add my recent experience.

 

Caloundra to Narromine, around 4 hours and busting with an hour to go. Looked in door pocket and found a plastic sick bag, undo seat belt, belt, fly and zipp.

 

All went well. There is a cut in the top of the bag neck to seal the twisted neck watertight.

 

Bought a couple more the other day.

 

 

[storchy neil]

wear gumboots:roflmao: my aircraft has had sick bags in since new ah ian best thing since sliced bread saved water a couple times

 

neil

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just noticed this forum and want to add my recent experience.Caloundra to Narromine, around 4 hours and busting with an hour to go. Looked in door pocket and found a plastic sick bag, undo seat belt, belt, fly and zipp.

All went well. There is a cut in the top of the bag neck to seal the twisted neck watertight.

 

Bought a couple more the other day.

And then the Hostess came along and he was banned from flying that airline.

 

 

[damkia]

For really long legs of trips, try a "Gastro-stop" (Loperamide HCl) 1 hour before you take off (Note - does not induce drowsiness = safe to use). This should give you about 4 -6 hrs of guaranteed "corkage" for the rear end if your habits are normal. Probably best not to use it if you are already having diarrhoea as it is not as immediately effective and will not last the same duration.

 

The front can be solved by incontinence pads or urinal (bottle).

 

 

[kaz3g]

C'mon Doug. That is not as straightforward as one might think and I am not going to recommend it. . I crapped myself walking home from school when I was a kid. I didn't enjoy it but the world didn't end. Muck up your outlanding and you are in the sh**. anyhow. Nev

Me too, Nev, me too!

 

Wasn't nice but I've managed to get through the 62 years since without too many PTSD problems.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

My personal risk minimisation technique is: 'never walk past a toilet without using it, cause you never know where the next one is going to be'.:

Howie

 

Need to ensure you really empty the bladder as you get older to avoid urinary tract infections.

 

Kaz

 

 

[turboplanner]

Come on it's not as lurid as all that.

 

Just plan for reasonable legs - it will give you breaks to make sure you're alert as well.

 

A friend used to start his holidays driving from Mount Gambier to Rockhampton without a stop - not a very pleasant start to a holiday.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

What's with the bags and bottles, you folk keen recyclers or something? Seems to me a hose vented externally would be sufficient. What do the airlines call it, fuel dump right?

 

 

[eightyknots]

I tried that once but it didn't work so next time I tried two knots which reduced the flow but was still not satisfactory. Not wishing to muck about anymore I doubled up to four knots, much better but still leaked, eventually I tried eight knots which finally did the trick. Problem fixed you might think but I have always had difficulty in un-tying knots so it took me nearly an hour in the toilet trying to undo them and I could not finish my journey as it was almost last light.I am now considering 'cable ties ' as one would probably be sufficient, but I'm a bit worried about cutting the cable tie off with the scissors !!!

Has anyone else tried these and if so would they need to be certified Aviation Cable Ties???

 

Alan..

Eighty knots is sure to work.

 

To sum up: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Urinate.

 

 

[pj8768]

Interesting.

 

Oh, the insiration came from watching "Top Gear" and they were saying how needing to "go potty" affects your ability to drive.

 

Looking at some of the replies; my thoughts:

 

1 - Landing on an old road and "getting the business done".

 

Fair enough, but what happens if you mess up the landing? What legal minefield have you entered?

 

2 - Flying within your limits.

 

Granted. I don't want to seem to be advocating exceeding your limits. That can be very dangerous.

 

3 - Tieing knots....

 

Well, I'll be modest and say mine isn't long enough to do that.

 

4 -Guernsey

 

Intersting. But again: I won't bite, though I am tempted.

 

If you are flying "high" it also takes time to descend, and as you do, the air pressure increases on the bladder and this makes it worse if it is a number 1 you are wanting to do.

 

Other things which were mentioned:

 

Get your priorities right.

 

I agree. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Everything else after that.

 

Facthunter, thanks for the honesty.

 

Biggles, hope you are going good with resolving the problem.

 

I guess what I really mean is how you "deal with" the sensation/fact of actaully having it happen to you, and the resultant smell until you land and clean up.

 

I"ve had a couple of close calls with "number 1's".

 

I think people are "conditioned" that when we sit on the dunny, releaving ourselves isn't a problem. But sitting in a car/plane/any seat other than a toilet it is difficult to feel ok as it happens.

 

Sure it isn't something you want to "simulate" it so you "get used to it". Heaven forbid.

 

I was just wondering what people would get their heads around the scenario.

 

Aviate, navigate, communicate, urinate, defecate?

 

 

[boingk]

Gatorade bottle.

 

My brother and I were on a road trip back from the coast to Goulburn, and opted to take the back way which is single track and very mountainous. He was on the piss and I was driving.

 

Halfway he needed to go. There wasn't anywhere to stop so I asked him if there was a bottle around. We had a laugh over the small openings on the stubbies he was drinking, then he found a Gatorade bottle - wide mouth, 600ml... perfect.

 

He filled it and then wondered what he should do as he needed to go again - I answered that he simply tip it out of the window at arms length. He promptly did so and filled the darn thing again... thats over a litre of urine in one go! I was impressed / amazed / disgusted in that order hahaha....

 

Nowdays I would heartily reccommend a Gatorade bottle to anyone looking for a urination point. Make sure it has a lid though, hey? Ours didn't and I don't think the car behind was impressed.

 

Cheers - boingk

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

I find carrying an empty oil bottle helps (some may need the big mouthed type, of course) One old engineer I knew reckoned he had to leave a little oil in it for some reason. Something to do with lubrication, perhaps? The bragging bastard...

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Seems to me a hose vented externally would be sufficient.

The Kingair does indeed have one of these 'hi-tech' pieces of equipment, coloquially known as the 'pisserphone' and no I haven't used it in anger!

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

This is a great topic, Doug raises a very valid argument, if you can land safely somewhere, then do so, but don't get mission focused on getting down, follow the precautionary landing checklist, always AVIATE, NAVIGATE AND COMMUNICATE THEN urinate or dedicate. I have done the black coke in and the yellow one back into the bottle, lucky every time that I was in smooth air and well trimmed out to have a free hand, there are so many factors ( some good ones mentioned above) that affect bladder condition, I find a thermocline really gets my eyes watering especially if im approaching full anyway. I was trained by a great ex RAAF instructed at Archerfield, he was in his 60s and we diverted a few times during training for his self proclaimed "pea sized bladder", I thought it was part of the training to get me to re-jig my calculations, get new clearances etc.

 

I usually do 7 or 8 long x country flights per year of 4-6 hours each, mostly I get the fluid intake for human factors and bladder control management calculations correct, but like anything to do with my aircraft or flight, if something changes from the Normal, I have to apply good airmanship, common sense and judgement, make a plan and fly the plan, I'd rather decide early that I need to stop than go another 45 min or more to get to that ALA to use their toilet, but when I get there I rush through the discomfort and botch the landing on a perfectly good airfield because I pushed myself beyond my limits. Good airmanship, preparation and decision making..

 

My last "pit stop" was in Western Australia, I was coming home from a mates cattle station when the urge came, I made the decision early to use a mining access road, rarely used and although gravel and red dust, a very good surface, a precautionary flight over he top and then set up, watching for he obvious cars and trucks, found a good straight stretch with a truck stop on the side, an oncoming car in the far distance put up a nice trail of dust to help with the wind direction and put my Fisher Mk1 down and taxied into the truck stop. As I was zipping up, a police car drove in to see if I was ok, when I told them I had a pee stop, they laughed their arses off for a good 10 minutes and then they checked the road ahead an flashed their lights for the ok and I was off..

 

 

[Dieselten]

I asked an experienced glider-pilot what sailplane pilots used such circumstances.

 

His reply:-

 

Take one small Tena incontinence-pad, fold in half and put inside small ziplock plastic bag, the sort you buy at the supermarket.

 

Put small ziplock plastic bag inside a larger ziplock plastic bag.

 

For use, remove small bag with pad from larger bag, unzip (bag and trousers!), insert member into folded pad inside small bag, empty bladder, remove member, zip up small ziplock bag (and trousers!!), place inside larger bag and fasten zip on large bag. Dispose in rubbish at next airport. With two bags there is no odour and no leakage.

 

I have a couple of these "in-flight relief" or IFR bags in my aircraft but haven't had to make use of them - yet. He assures me this is a very effective method of in-flight relief when the "bladder high-level alarm" has triggered.

 

 

[boingk]

Just make sure the thing is big enough - an average male bladder holds around 500~600ml when 'oh-crap-I-really-need-to-go' kind of full. Coincidentally, a pint glass holds 568ml.

 

Last thing you want is a 250ml ziplock and a 600ml outflow of urine.

 

- boingk

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

For use, remove small bag with pad from larger bag, unzip (bag and trousers!), insert member into folded pad inside small bag, empty bladder, remove member, zip up small ziplock bag (and trousers!!), place inside larger bag and fasten zip on large bag.

This seems a very male-dominated thread for some reason. Much too polite to ask how this situation ah... pans out for ladies of course. Ra-aus's memberless members - too smart to get caught out perhaps.

 

 

[Exadios]

This seems a very male-dominated thread for some reason. Much too polite to ask how this situation ah... pans out for ladies of course. Ra-aus's memberless members - too smart to get caught out perhaps.

Freshette.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Fantastic - a 'female urinary director'!

 

Now I am assured that everything that could be invented has been.

 

 

[naremman]

The Kingair does indeed have one of these 'hi-tech' pieces of equipment, coloquially known as the 'pisserphone' and no I haven't used it in anger!

HH. You need to read Robyn Miller's account in "Sugar Bird Lady", of when she and Dr Harold Dicks ( I kid you not, and they were married) were ferrying the first Beechcraft Duke back from the USA for RFDS WA operations. Harold, after relief was achieved, realized that such aperatus had a firm hold on a sensitive part of the the anatomy. The PIC was quickly implored to suddenly reduce airspeed, and only after approaching the stall was said sensitive part of the anotomy being able to be stored inside trousers.

 

Harold had to wait a few years to effect revenge on Robyn, but that is another story. "Sugar Bird Lady" is a great read, and only a bit over a generation past where we are at the moment.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Bit like the, shall we say, 'very full figured' lady, who went back into the 747 toilet to do her in-flight business. Upon finishing she found herself completely sealed and sucked down firmly upon the toilet seat !!.....unable to move or be freed. It wasn't until after landing that ground crew (blue water mechanics they call them !) disassembled the seat to free her finally. She sued of course and I believe won. Now the seats are designed to elimate the possibility of that happening again !!........................Maj...

 

 

[flying dog]

Bit like the, shall we say, 'very full figured' lady, who went back into the 747 toilet to do her in-flight business. Upon finishing she found herself completely sealed and sucked down firmly upon the toilet seat !!.....unable to move or be freed. It wasn't until after landing that ground crew (blue water mechanics they call them !) disassembled the seat to free her finally. She sued of course and I believe won. Now the seats are designed to elimate the possibility of that happening again !!........................Maj...

Mythbusters did that.

 

It not true.