RAA Membership $$$$

[Guest aussie carl]

It is almost 12 months since I started my training and my RAA membership renewal has arived in the mail. The total due is $185. My first thoughts at this expence where "FARK that is expensive" So then I think about what I get for my money.

 

I can not justify the expence for the return so will not be renewing my membership and will not continue my training. My instructor is down one less student who is in credit from me but now they will refund my credit.

 

RAA your fees are just to expensive and have tipped the scales for me not to contue any training.

 

From memory the fees were about $130 last year and I vaugly remeber something about a fee increase during the year. I refuse to pay so much for membership so I guess RAA has one less member for next year.

 

 

[dazza 38]

$185 is only probably about 1 hour of dual instruction.(I dont know what dual instruction it costs these days). It does sound like alot, but with athe magazine, insurance etc, its not that bad.It is a real shame I think, that you have decided to give up on training Carl, I have been keeping an eye on your progress from when you first Started.You where going great.

 

 

[old man emu]

Carl,

 

I'm not a memeber of the RAA at the moment because I'm not flying, but I beg you to reconsider your decision and view the membership fee in light of the membership fees you would pay for other recreational pursuits.

 

1. NSW Fishing Licence for 12 months: approx $75. No insurance cover for your fishing activity. No monthly magazine

 

2. Radio Controlled Flying club: $160 for insurance premioum then more for membership to a club. And most of your flying is done in a restricted space.

 

3. Golf Club. $Lots more

 

4. Motor Sports Club $?

 

5. General Aviation Pilot's Licence: $ + $ +$ + $ ad infinitum

 

With RAA membership you are getting insurance for your activities; an intermediary between you and the powers that regulate aviation; safety monitoring of the airplane types you fly; establishment of good operational standards etc, etc, etc

 

In the scheme of things, and considering value for money, I'd say that $185 per year is on the cheap side of pretty fair.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You dont actually get anything for your $185 apart to from the magazine which is probably worth $120 based on what is on the shelf at most newsagents.

 

 

[drifter45]

"You dont actually get anything for your $185 apart to from the magazine which is probably worth $120 based on what is on the shelf at most newsagents."

 

And $10 million in public liability insurance and Natfly. Oh and that also includes the licence fee.

 

cheers John

 

 

[fly_tornado]

and the rest! RAA isn't doing a great job. Grounding the #24 fleet whilst the manufacturer's provide compliance documentation shows what a dog and pony show it is.

 

Too bad if you are a flying school and have to turn away pilots.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I consider it all a bit steep from my end. Doing the same as i was before the AUF/RAAus came along. Still operating from a private property so the insurance is worth nothing to me. I feel like i am just subsidising others privilages and long lunches. Unfortunatly i have to sit on the pot and &^%$ cause the alternative is the pokey for two years. land of the free, poohey

 

 

[winsor68]

safety monitoring of the airplane types you fly; establishment of good operational standards etc, etc, etcIn the scheme of things, and considering value for money, I'd say that $185 per year is on the cheap side of pretty fair.

 

Old Man Emu

???? Seems to me Ra-Aus has not delivered these things... were they supposed to?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

look @ the progress that they made on the website this year.

 

 

[P4D]

One good feed at a resturant, one hour of dual instruction, two tanks of gas for the toyota, two months of Foxtel, one mobile phone bill, a pair of new pants or four slabs of xxxx. Alternativley one full year of magazines, representation at Federal Level and insurance for the year. Choose your own priorities.

 

 

[David Isaac]

and the rest! RAA isn't doing a great job. Grounding the #24 fleet whilst the manufacturer's provide compliance documentation shows what a dog and pony show it is.Too bad if you are a flying school and have to turn away pilots.

That is a bit rich F/T,

What other appropriate action do you recommend that RA Aus should have taken?

 

Has it escaped your thought process that the responsibility of producing the evidence of a 'Special Certificate of Airworthiness' is the responsibility of the owner?

 

How derelict of duty would RA Aus have been if knowing these Certificates were not on file allowed aircraft to continue to fly?

 

Give them a break mate, a whole can of worms has been opened in front of the new Board and I know they are doing their best in a bad situation. As a point of interest I own a GA aircraft registered with CASA, but I am still responsible for the 'Certificate of Airworthiness' not CASA.

 

We get a hell of a lot for our subscription ... nothing in life is free ... unless of course you are paying for me ...

 

Lots of love ...

 

 

[kgwilson]

Fees increased by $25.00 this year from $160.00 to $185.00. Fees had been $160.00 for some years, 5 I think. A 15.6% increase over 5 years is less than the CPI over the same period. $185.00 is cheap when you consider the privileges members have, the magazine, public liability insurance etc.

 

Lets say RA-Aus did not exist. You, your training aircraft and instructors (not to mention the 3216+ RA-Aus registered aircraft around the country) would be governed by all the rules, regulations and associated costs required for GA. This would add $50.00 or more per flying hour to your training. The additional cost for just 4 hours GA training would more than pay for RA-Aus membership.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think a fair bit of GA training is done using RA-Aus registered aircraft to help keep costs down.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

How derelict of duty would RA Aus have been if knowing these Certificates were not on file allowed aircraft to continue to fly?

Good question. Considering that the paperwork does not technically alter the plane I would say not very. If a contract exists, it exists.

 

But that's not going to keep Carl in the RAA is it? The problem with the RAA is it looks and smells like an old boys club.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Good question. Considering that the paperwork does not technically alter the plane I would say not very. If a contract exists, it exists.

Not sure I follow you mate ... what contract?Maybe some 24 registered aircraft don't have a certificate issued by the manufacturer.

 

But that's not going to keep Carl in the RAA is it? The problem with the RAA is it looks and smells like an old boys club.

What I hope will keep Carl in the RAA is all the reasons the previous posters have given.We have a new Board and executive buddy, so lets give them a chance to prove their worth before we 'Tar them with the old brush'.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So in your estimation, what is a reasonable timeline for the completion of the new website.

 

Considering that a typical website can be turn out in a 2-3 days.

 

 

[David Isaac]

So in your estimation, what is a reasonable timeline for the completion of the new website.Considering that a typical website can be turn out in a 2-3 days.

I have to agree with you on this one F/T, there was a contract to build a web site and it is taking way too long. I have no idea why.

 

 

[winsor68]

I too agree with FT...

 

How many years is it going to take for Ra-Aus to get its act together? Sure $180 is not a big membership fee but I will not be giving them my money until they get their act together... I don't want to end up a victim like the Sierra pilot.

 

 

[facthunter]

The amount of the fees would be equivalent to one cup of coffee a week. Get real!. Ozzie probably doesn't need the expanded organisation but he is the exception rather than the rule.

 

You people are SO LUCKY to have this available, but you don't get it. Ask people who trained long ago what the costs were. Ask CASA to process something for you, (but look up the fees and charges first.). Nev

 

 

[winsor68]

The amount of the fees would be equivalent to one cup of coffee a week. Get real!. Ozzie probably doesn't need the expanded organisation but he is the exception rather than the rule.You people are SO LUCKY to have this available, but you don't get it. Ask people who trained long ago what the costs were. Ask CASA to process something for you, (but look up the fees and charges first.). Nev

I guess they do cheap very well... Now... watch out for the cracks.

 

 

[Admin]

We get a hell of a lot for our subscription ... nothing in life is free ... unless of course you are paying for me ...

Lots of love ...

...or using this resource

 

 

[David Isaac]

I too agree with FT...How many years is it going to take for Ra-Aus to get its act together? Sure $180 is not a big membership fee but I will not be giving them my money until they get their act together... I don't want to end up a victim like the Sierra pilot.

Hi Donny boy, don't confuse the two issues mate. The Sierra incident is very unfortunate for Paul, but has nothing to do with RA Aus, it is what RA Aus does as a consequence of what came out of the accident investigation that will test their 'metal'

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I have to agree with you on this one F/T, there was a contract to build a web site and it is taking way too long. I have no idea why.

I can explain the process. The board says to the CEO fix it and the CEO says to the developer fix it and the problem is fixed. If there is a problem with the developer they should be sacked.

 

Generally, the developer can only do their job if the project is properly defined. So who is responsible for the definition of the project? The board and the CEO.

 

Its easy for me to see the RAA as a dog and pony show because I can see the public face of the RAA through their website.

 

What's going to kill the RAA? Retirement of a lot of older pilots over the next few years, the introduction of the RPL and the recession...

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

I very nearly didn't renew my RA membership this year for the same reason. I'm still undecided about next year. I fell into RA flying by accident, not by design.

 

If it's going to survive, RA needs to change. I'm sorry, but something that could be viewed as exciting - racing around the sky in small, fast, fun, affordable aircraft - is currently looking as boring as taking the dog to the vet. The website is atrocious and the new one is still nowhere to be seen - if I'd seen the current website before starting RA flying, I would've run a mile. The magazine is a lot better after its revamp, but still leaves something to be desired in my opinion - it's 90% stories of 'we flew there' - which is great, it's an important part of the magic of flying, but it could be improved - have articles about how to plan your first interstate/overnight nav, how to decide what to take, preparation for what happens after an emergency landing, a 'young pilots' corner, the possibilities are endless - have articles about how to have/plan your own adventures, that's 100% more exciting that reading about other people's. Reading about others people's adventures is like looking at somebody else's holiday photos - generally most interesting for the person who went, not the people hearing about it. Or, make the magazine optional or online. I'd prefer to save my $120 yearly to spend on actual flying hours rather than the mag.

 

To be perfectly honest, if I was looking in from the outside at RA at the moment, my impression would be 'a bunch of old men who fly'. I'm not saying all RA members are old (or male) but it does seem that way. I think there should be more emphasis on the affordability, about the young flyers as well, get new younger pilots in. Show it's fun, affordable, show the possibilities it gives you and it's not a bunch of planes made out of old bedsheets. You can't just rely on flying schools to steer all their students into RA before GA (my experience), you need to try and grab people, not just hope they'll find you or trickle in from GA.

 

This organisation has so much potential but it doesn't appear to be even contemplating using it.

 

 

[turboplanner]

A 15.6% increase over 5 years is less than the CPI over the same period. $185.00 is cheap when you consider the privileges members have, the magazine, public liability insurance etc.

kg the RAA is not supplying us with milk, potatoes, weet bix, meat and curry powder. otherwise I would agree with you.

 

The readily available financials of RAA show you exactly what has happened (well a few things are buried in the sub totals), and when it happened, and it disappoints me that so many people are prepared to post on here but not go and find out the truth themselves.

 

What this thread is all about is the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

Everyone has a different set of incomes and financial obligations and it's unfair challenge them on the basis of a slab of beer or whatever floats your particular boat.

 

If the straw gets too heavy the numbers fall off.

 

And re the other argument about pilots getting older, about the same number of pilots turn 40 or 50 every year, they don't just disappear in a puff of thunderdust when midnight strikes, one turns 50,and the one coming in turns 40., it's like a conveyor belt.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Membership alone will provide 30.8 hrs of Lazair flying time.