Tug Incident

[Exadios]

A video of a tug incident - correctly handled.

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

That was a short flight.Any particular cause or just PIO ?

 

 

[winsor68]

Tug engine failure apparently Dazza... They certainly handled it well... fortunately they were operating out of a strip with enough room.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Thanks Don. I thought that maybe the tug pilot pulled the power after the glider started going up and down during the take off.

 

 

[Exadios]

Thanks Don. I thought that maybe the tug pilot pulled the power after the glider started going up and down during the take off.

The glider's up and down was not excessive - reasonably normal. I doubt whether it could be even felt in the tug.

 

If there had been some sort of PIO, or other problem with the glider, the correct proceedure would be for the tug pilot to pull the release (the glider pilot should also pull the release) and keep going to clear the runway. The only time that the maneuver in this video is performed is when the tug fails.

 

 

[winsor68]

Thanks Don. I thought that maybe the tug pilot pulled the power after the glider started going up and down during the take off.

It said it in the Youtube description Dazza... Can't take credit.

 

 

[Tomo]

The glider's up and down was not excessive - reasonably normal. I doubt whether it could be even felt in the tug.If there had been some sort of PIO, or other problem with the glider, the correct proceedure would be for the tug pilot to pull the release (the glider pilot should also pull the release) and keep going to clear the runway. The only time that the maneuver in this video is performed is when the tug fails.

Yep, Glider up's and down's aren't really felt, only if they are big ones and the glider hits the ground again there's a bit of a jerk. It's worse if they don't correct for crosswind and drift and pull the tug tail over, but it's all part of the fun! The tug release is always near by if anything goes real bad, but glider pilots are usually fairly on the ball as well. Experienced glider pilots you hardly know they are on the back, they just 'stick' there.

 

This failure was carried out the best way it could have been, I'm about 95% sure it would have been fuel starvation though... seems so prominent in glider tugs, particularly Pawnees - the tank is on an angle so just looking in through the cap may look like there's more than there is - I know the ones I fly now have a dip stick system due to a few incidents over the years.

 

If for instance you have a cable break you do as Exadios mentions and just keep on keeping on.

 

 

[XP503]

What's the Pawnee like to fly Tomo? When I was a kid I used to bum rides in the dickie seat of the tug at Boonah, I was obsessed with them for ages.

 

How does it compare to other TD's you've flown, have you bounced it yet?

 

 

[Tomo]

G'day David, It's just a big Drifter!! I don't find it hard to fly as such, good view, and a bit of power up your sleeve. Wouldn't say they are the most comfortable touring aircraft though... pretty rough and rugged.

 

I've bounced a few times, though never had to add power or go around, just touched down a bit fast. You certainly get to have plenty of practice though as you do lots of landings in a day! If you wheel it on it's hard to bounce as you have it pinned there, but usually I do three pointers to minimise ground roll. I've been meaning to set up some camera's but haven't had a chance yet. I'll be towing again on the 25th/26th this month. (A weekend a month usually)

 

I wouldn't say it's a hard tail dragger to fly, just a few things you need to watch. They spin around pretty quick on the ground, I've never ground looped one yet, but got hit with a gust while sitting there waiting and didn't have my feet on the brakes, and it turned me around about 90 degrees! (fully castering tailwheel, so if it's facing the right way it turns on the spot easy as)

 

Every Pawnee handles a little different too I'm told, I've only flown two different ones, and one lands almost naturally, whereas the other you need to work the stick a bit. Should come over one weekend and have a look.

 

Rob Knight is a good bloke to talk to, as he's done a fair bit of towing in some pretty cool aircraft! (I'm pretty sure you know him as his Lightwing is at Boonah)

 

 

[facthunter]

Fly better as a tug than as a spray aircraft. Everything loaded right up is "on the edge" Nev

 

 

[XP503]

Yep robs an old mate. So jealous of u tomo. When u takin me flying

 

 

[Tomo]

Yep robs an old mate. So jealous of u tomo. When u takin me flying

Haha, thanks Dave, I'm jealous of you too! You have an aircraft, I don't

 

I've heard you're a bit of a genius with flying, so maybe you should take me flying! Peter and Rob have told me you have the 'perfect' touch, and right attitude - Especially to be an instructor... you should consider that I reckon by the sounds.

 

 

[XP503]

Thanks Tomo, perhaps u and me both

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The action in the video almost looks like deliberate training, for a power failure right after liftoff. I know nothing of gliders, although I wouldn't mind trying it one day........................................Maj....

 

 

[Tomo]

The action in the video almost looks like deliberate training, for a power failure right after liftoff. I know nothing of gliders, although I wouldn't mind trying it one day........................................Maj....

We don't do 'actual real' tug power failure practices as it's to dangerous for just the sake of a practice. Cable break training for the glider is pretty common, and or engine failure training. Pretty much the same as powered EFATO scenario, except the tug keeps going.

 

 

[DAVID SEE]

The action in the video almost looks like deliberate training, for a power failure right after liftoff. I know nothing of gliders, although I wouldn't mind trying it one day........................................Maj....

Hi Maj.

 

I went for a TIF in a 'Demona H36' motor glider about three weeks ago out of Moura. What an experience, hit our first thermal on climb out about 400mtrs from liftoff, radio call and straight into a tight bank, (eng. still running but back to idle) the ASI or what they call the 'varier meter' (spelling)? which reads meters per second and it was showing 4mtr/sec up, first surprise was the lift we were getting at a bank angle of about 45*, he explained how to follow and stay in a thermal. Lost that one at 2500ft. so flew west towards a line of cloud. Hit a big load of lift over some tiger country (I was looking at the edge of the timber and mentally calculating the distance for my lightwing) when Steve said "this is a good one, we'll give it a go". so shut the engine down and thermald around there for one hour and ten minutes, Steve said we were in the right one because there was two wedges above us.

 

Took us over 1/2hr. to fly back to Moura. Shut the engine off again at 3000ft. and about 20klm. from the strip, had to pull the brakes on in the base leg or we would of over shot by a mile. Man, what an experience. I'm going to carry on with it. then I hopped in the trusty old lightwing and flew home, just that one flight has given me a different way of looking at flying and the clouds.

 

Cheers Davo.

 

 

[Exadios]

Hi Maj.I went for a TIF in a 'Demona H36' motor glider about three weeks ago out of Moura. What an experience, hit our first thermal on climb out about 400mtrs from liftoff, radio call and straight into a tight bank, (eng. still running but back to idle) the ASI or what they call the 'varier meter' (spelling)? which reads meters per second and it was showing 4mtr/sec up, first surprise was the lift we were getting at a bank angle of about 45*, he explained how to follow and stay in a thermal. Lost that one at 2500ft. so flew west towards a line of cloud. Hit a big load of lift over some tiger country (I was looking at the edge of the timber and mentally calculating the distance for my lightwing) when Steve said "this is a good one, we'll give it a go". so shut the engine down and thermald around there for one hour and ten minutes, Steve said we were in the right one because there was two wedges above us.

Took us over 1/2hr. to fly back to Moura. Shut the engine off again at 3000ft. and about 20klm. from the strip, had to pull the brakes on in the base leg or we would of over shot by a mile. Man, what an experience. I'm going to carry on with it. then I hopped in the trusty old lightwing and flew home, just that one flight has given me a different way of looking at flying and the clouds.

 

Cheers Davo.

Wait until you get in a glider that has some real performance!

 

The Dimona, like other similar power gliders, necessarily are compromised in therms of their performance as gliders. Compared to a twin such as a DG500 or DG1000 for instance a Dimona would be considered very much sub par.

 

I was speaking to a pilot who owns a couple of Grob G109s (which is of similar appearance and performance to the Dimona) and we wondered why more people did not buy these sort of aircraft over some of the SLAs. They are invariably well built, and for about the same money you get a fine touring aircraft which can also glide. And, because its "VH" registered, they can be snuck into airports that will not usually accept SLA aircraft.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

SLA's?

 

 

[Exadios]

SLA's?

I think I meant LSAs.

 

 

[kaz3g]

The glider's up and down was not excessive - reasonably normal. I doubt whether it could be even felt in the tug.

The glider is directly in the tug's slipstream at this stage of proceedings and is responding to the wash. Just at the end before the bungs were pulled you can see the glider briefly going above the slipstream. Once tug and glider are both well clear of the ground, the glider will settle in either high or low tow (above or below the slipstream).

 

When I was gliding we always travelled in low tow until shortly before release when we would go up through the slipstream to high tow and release. Tug and glider would break in opposite directions with the tug diving away while the glider attempted to remain in the thermal the tug pilot had hopefully found for it.

 

It's potentially very nasty if the tug breaks and dives before the glider has released because the resultant pressure on the TOST release can be so high that it becomes impossible to activate the mechanism.

 

kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

Wait until you get in a glider that has some real performance!The Dimona, like other similar power gliders, necessarily are compromised in therms of their performance as gliders. Compared to a twin such as a DG500 or DG1000 for instance a Dimona would be considered very much sub par.

 

I was speaking to a pilot who owns a couple of Grob G109s (which is of similar appearance and performance to the Dimona) and we wondered why more people did not buy these sort of aircraft over some of the SLAs. They are invariably well built, and for about the same money you get a fine touring aircraft which can also glide. And, because its "VH" registered, they can be snuck into airports that will not usually accept SLA aircraft.

Long time ago the Bureau of Meteorology had some G109's that they used to track thundercells. That gives an idea of how well built these little powered sailplanes are.

 

I was checked out in one at Gympie in 1985 :-)

 

kaz

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Davo, I scored a ride in a Zamango from Brazil....has an 80 hp Rotax, and based here at Shute harbor. Also very impressed all round with the way those things go up !!.........................maj...

 

 

[Exadios]

The glider is directly in the tug's slipstream at this stage of proceedings and is responding to the wash. Just at the end before the bungs were pulled you can see the glider briefly going above the slipstream. Once tug and glider are both well clear of the ground, the glider will settle in either high or low tow (above or below the slipstream).

We are a low tow club. I'm sure that all Australian tuggies are low tow supporters! :)

 

When I was gliding we always travelled in low tow until shortly before release when we would go up through the slipstream to high tow and release. Tug and glider would break in opposite directions with the tug diving away while the glider attempted to remain in the thermal the tug pilot had hopefully found for it.

We release from low tow and use the speed for some height gain. The only time we go into high tow is in the event of a release failure at the glider end. The glider will move up to high tow to avoid the glider pilot having to occupy the cockpit along with 200' of rope, shackles and weak links (some pilots a fussy like that).

 

It's potentially very nasty if the tug breaks and dives before the glider has released because the resultant pressure on the TOST release can be so high that it becomes impossible to activate the mechanism.

That's happened to me once. Very frightening! You have got to be quick - under 1 second - to release, otherwise its almost certianly a tug upset. I keep my hand on the release at all time when on tow.

 

 

[Tomo]

I keep my hand on the release at all time when on tow.

I keep my hand pretty close to my release in the tug too...

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Low tow, - high tow release -tug left- glider right, hopefully into lift... we used to teach an exercise called " boxing the tug" where a student/check would have to fly all four stations and quadrants accurately before we would solo them. all done at the appropriate height of course.

 

Tug pilots earn their stripes, hell knows they don't earn much else...

 

I'm seriously getting an itch to get back into it...