Fuel Fumes

[samuell]

Hi everyone,haveing problems with fuel fumes in the cabin of my savannah,just wondering if anone else is haveing the same problems.I've checked all the fuel lines, joins and connections .Any advice would be great .Doesn't make the best flying conditions.

 

Thanks Sam

 

 

[turboplanner]

Float valve may have partial blockage/set too high, fuel flowing out overflow hole while pump/engine running?

 

 

[samuell]

Thanks turbo I forgot to say the fumes seems to get worst when its been sitting.

 

 

[Ultralights]

we get a few fumes in the cab opening the door after its been sitting for a while, but nothing major or to worry about, but we will get fumes in flight if we have full tanks and we fly for a while on the left tank and don't drain from the tank that takes the engine return fuel, it will then overflow via the breather tube, and start flowing back under the wing and will eventually find its way back to the top of the door and fill you up with fumes. not to mention leaving a nice yellow stain under the wing.

 

 

[samuell]

Yeh thanks i've had the same problem,it comes out of the far left tank,Manly in rough weather or if you are turning alot.I wonder if the fumes are coming in from the wings from spilling fuel when filling up.We use drum fuel and it's a bit hard when filling up by yourself.I herd of a fellow selling his because of the fumes , it was a factory built one.

 

 

[Ultralights]

also, the tanks being plastic inserts in the wing, when you spill some, some of the fuel will spill into the cavity in the wing around the tank, and from there the fuel fumes will fill the cab through the wing root area. i have had this a few times when spilling a bit of fuel. but once airborne the smell goes away. and its not normally a large amount either.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The common fix for this is to seal off the holes at the wing root on both sides. Some people just tape them off with wide silver tape some others I have seen rivet a thin plate across all the holes. Mine will be sealed off with the wide tape same as the holes in the cross member at the front of the seat. Mine does not have any carpet

 

Mark

 

 

[rankamateur]

Sam,

 

Ring Reg, he has a few clues about this,

 

Steve

 

 

[Planechaser]

A mate of mine is selling/has sold his non-factory built Sav of 6 months because of fuel fumes. So bad he was feeling light headed while flying and went to the hospital to get checked out; he was sure it couldn't be the Sav, he was loving it so much!

 

Was told by the builder to fly with the vents wide open. Needless to say he was expecting a little more for has $90k and last I heard was so disheartened with

 

LSA that he was looking at 2nd hand 172's.

 

Not a problem with the Foxy, but maybe the fiberglass tanks help with that.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well from this discussion, it wasn't the fault of the aircraft, but the fault of the filler. Maybe check out a goat's throat for more accurate filling, or make up a spill device which will seal around the tank neck.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The main problem is the exit from the wing skin for the fller hole on the tank if it is not sealed properly you will of course get fuel into the wing. Just make sure its sealed properly thats as easy as it is. My breathers for the caps are under the wing as per the manual so if I do get fuel coming out it will be under the wing so the likelihood of it entering the wing is pretty much nill. I will still block the holes in the wing root but as usual its the attention to detail to make sure problems don't rear their ugly head

 

Mark

 

 

[Planechaser]

Mate had a fully enclosed hanger, and he reconed that if the Sav had been in there for a few days all shut up, the fumes when you opened the door would just about knock you over. He thought it was something to do with the tanks being plastic and porus to petrol vapor. I didn't ever go there so to be fair I can't say 1st hand.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I doubt the tanks are porus as they are blow moulded by the look of them and also quite thick they are not flimsy at all. I still bet its the skin seal and spilling the fuel

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I sealed up around the fill caps on the lightwing with white Silka flex, but the professional tank sealant works well also. It is holding up fine after about three years.

 

Samuell, Go back and double check all fuel lines again, make sure the rubber hose hasn't hardened, and that the clamps are doing their job. I had a similiar fume smell in the lightwing, just enough to annoy you. Finally I replaced all lines and bingo...it's gone.

 

Not all rubber fuel line is created equal. When asked a while back by a Savvy builder what fuel line should he use for the tank interconnects ?.........I replied the best US line you can find ! ..I won't use anything that doesn't have Made in the US written on it. I have found it to simply be the best from a lot of experience over the years.

 

These interconnect lines are lines that are not readily accessable once the top skins are rivited on.

 

Some lesser fuel line I have seen start to crack in less than two years of use. Buy and fit only the best for a leak-free future...............................................Maj...

 

 

[samuell]

Thanks everyone for your advice , i've bought some fuel salastic for the tanks, for around the filler caps and rechecked everything.Ranlamateur i'm not sure who reg is but any good help would be great.I'll keep looking and if i find anyhthing i'll let you all know.

 

Thanks Sam

 

 

[samuell]

Sorry Mark , will seal off the wing holes inside as well good advice thankyou Sam

 

 

[samuell]

Blocked holes in wing root inside cabin instant fix .Thanks for your advive Mark cheap and easy fix. Thankyou everyone for your advice.All so put sealer around tank outlets or fill spouts seems to have fixed problem if you spill a bit of fuel while filling.

 

Thanks all Sam

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Sam

 

Glad to see it has solved your issues I have done a lot of research on Savannahs before I decided to build one. Mine will have the root holes sealed and of course my tank fillers at the wineskin are well sealed so I don't expect any fume issues

 

Mark

 

 

[Gundy]

Just remember Mark that the way your breathers are( coming from the top of the wing through to the bottom of wing) that any fuel vapor will hover along the bottom of the wing and enter the cabin that way whilst the plane is hangered. This was a problem with the early Savs( VG model) not as bad with the XL but it still finds its way into cabin. Everyone do your best to never spill fuel while refueling, it does take along time for the stink to leave the internal parts of the plane. Gundy

 

 

[AeroKits]

Hi everyone,haveing problems with fuel fumes in the cabin of my savannah,just wondering if anone else is haveing the same problems.I've checked all the fuel lines, joins and connections .Any advice would be great .Doesn't make the best flying conditions.Thanks Sam

Not all rubber fuel lines are created equal. I purchased a rather expensive electronic petrol sniffer and found that the fuel lines in my Savannah set the sniffer off quite easily. The plastic fuel tanks also set off the sniffer but not as mush as the fuel lines. After researching rubber fuel hose I discovered that most fuel hose has a rating of >10gms per sq m of permeability to aromatic vapours. However some purpose made fuel hose has a permeability of <1gm per sq m. The same US company makes both grades of hose so you need to have the correct grade to prevent that fuel smell from building up in the cabin when the plane is locked up in the hanger etc. The plastic tanks also emit fuel vapour but there is not a lot you can do except seal off the wing roots to prevent the vapour from entering the cabin. That still leaves the reserve tank which you can't do anything about except replace with a aluminium tank. However, not as much smell comes out of the plastic tanks as what comes out of standard rubber fuel hose so it is probably not worth worrying about. Spilling fuel around the fillers if they are not sealed against the top wing skin is also a big No No as it takes ages for the smell to evaporate out of the wings. And by the way there is a lot more to the yarn going round about the fuel smell in the factory Savannah at Broken Hill supposedly causing the owner to sell the aircraft. These forums seem to generate a heap of misinformation as well as the helpfull good stuff.

 

 

[7751]

Well i bought that savannah this year and have done over 50 hours in it and no problems great plane . if u spill fuel when filling it will go in the wing if not sealed and will smell ..simple . i hope that clears up that story..! . happy flying.......

 

 

[eightyknots]

Not all rubber fuel lines are created equal. I purchased a rather expensive electronic petrol sniffer and found that the fuel lines in my Savannah set the sniffer off quite easily. The plastic fuel tanks also set off the sniffer but not as mush as the fuel lines. After researching rubber fuel hose I discovered that most fuel hose has a rating of >10gms per sq m of permeability to aromatic vapours. However some purpose made fuel hose has a permeability of <1gm per sq m. The same US company makes both grades of hose so you need to have the correct grade to prevent that fuel smell from building up in the cabin when the plane is locked up in the hanger etc. The plastic tanks also emit fuel vapour but there is not a lot you can do except seal off the wing roots to prevent the vapour from entering the cabin. That still leaves the reserve tank which you can't do anything about except replace with a aluminium tank. However, not as much smell comes out of the plastic tanks as what comes out of standard rubber fuel hose so it is probably not worth worrying about. Spilling fuel around the fillers if they are not sealed against the top wing skin is also a big No No as it takes ages for the smell to evaporate out of the wings. And by the way there is a lot more to the yarn going round about the fuel smell in the factory Savannah at Broken Hill supposedly causing the owner to sell the aircraft. These forums seem to generate a heap of misinformation as well as the helpfull good stuff.

Thanks for the info; a very useful reminder to us all to check the permeability of the rubber fuel lines that we use.

 

I was just wondering why ICP uses plastic fuel tanks instead of, say, thin aluminium. Would it be a weight issue?

 

 

[samuell]

Well this has been an interesting experience. I have learned a few very helpful things from the toing and froing withing this forum.

 

Thankyou to all who posted constructive and helpful information. It was never my intention to upset anyone but i had a (seemingly fairly common problem) that i was asking for advice about. I have sealed the wing roots and broblem solved. Perhaps my honesty in admiting that i do on occasion spill a bit of fuel may have missdircted the discussion at times.

 

The Savannah is a great little plane.

 

On a lighter note, im off to spot sheep stranded in flood water for some local station owner for the next few days. Another 5 or 6 hours seeing some fantastic sights is always a bright spot. The flood waters are amazing out here.

 

Cheers Sam.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Well i bought that savannah this year and have done over 50 hours in it and no problems great plane . if u spill fuel when filling it will go in the wing if not sealed and will smell ..simple . i hope that clears up that story..! . happy flying.......

Would you have a pic of your new Sav, 7751?

 

Well this has been an interesting experience. I have learned a few very helpful things from the toing and froing withing this forum.Thankyou to all who posted constructive and helpful information. It was never my intention to upset anyone but i had a (seemingly fairly common problem) that i was asking for advice about. I have sealed the wing roots and broblem solved. Perhaps my honesty in admiting that i do on occasion spill a bit of fuel may have missdircted the discussion at times.

The Savannah is a great little plane.

 

On a lighter note, im off to spot sheep stranded in flood water for some local station owner for the next few days. Another 5 or 6 hours seeing some fantastic sights is always a bright spot. The flood waters are amazing out here.

 

Cheers Sam.

Hi Sam, I was just wondering if you'll be taking a camera up with you. A picture or two from a bird's eye view would be great.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Samuel

 

Glad you have the issue solved. It would probably be a good idea if you haven't already done it to sikaflex the tops of the wings to the fuel tank holes again. It certainly wouldn't hurt and it will make sure if you do spill any fuel it won't get into the wing again

 

Mark