LAME, level 2 or Self

[king_daniels]

Aircraft bought brand new rego no 24-xxxx, every service has been maintained by the same LAME from new. I decided to take my aircraft on the 1,000 hourly top end overhaul and to do a 100 hourly, to the manufacturer. Thinking throughout the last 1,000 hours that my aircraft was superior and safer because all maintenance was done by a well known LAME. How wrong was I? The report came back from the manufacturer and it reads as follows:

 

Aircraft 24-xxxx was receivced for top end overhaul on engine 22B038. 100 hourly service was done on the aircraft on inspection of the airframe.

 

Problems with the airframe that were found:

 

1. The engine mount to firewall bolts were loose

 

2. Nose wheel bracket on the firewall bolts were loose

 

3. The ball end on elevator control cable (elevator end) was out of safety

 

4. The bolt and bush in hyoke was badly worn

 

Engine and top end overhaul carried out. Barrells were honed. New 23mm internal circlips pistons were fitted. Second hand fine fin head was fitted as original heads were unserviceable.

 

Hollow push rod oil feed system was fitted.

 

Problems with the engine that were found:

 

1. Wrong jetting in carby

 

2. Diaphragm was fitted incorrectly and locators were not centred

 

Verbal conversation I had with the manufacturer was to "not take your aircraft back to this LAME" The question was asked, would these defects have happened in the last 100 hours, and if not, should the LAME doing his job, have picked them up? Answer: "No the defects would have happened over the life of the plane so far, and the LAME obviouly did not do any 100 hourly inspections on the airframe, the defects mentioned above, especially with the elevtaor and the loose bolts with regards to the motor and the front nose wheel, especially the badly worn yoke, could have ended up with a deadly disaster".

 

This is not a joke, you pay big money to get something done and it doesn't get done. I can just hear it now, I crash my plane and then I die, then it starts again. Don't fly those RAA ultralights, their too dangerous, their not well maintained, pilots are not trained properly, you read it in these forums all the time. Now I'm saying, who do you trust to maintain your aircraft if you get a report like the above and a LAME has been doing the work. So, my decision is, I don't know what my decision is, do I trust it to another LAME or find a level2, take a day off and do my own maintenance or take it back to the manufacturer for 100 hourlys?

 

Where do I go from here? All I can say is, if you trust your aircraft to anybody, I solemnley recommend that you go over the aircraft with the 100 hourly maintenance list and question the LAME if something looks out of place. You can't see inside the carby, unless you take the covers off you can't see the control cables, unless you check all the nuts with a spanner, most times it would be impossible to know if they're loose or not. So, ok, where do I go from here???

 

 

[dazza 38]

Just because the person is a LAME doesnt mean he knows what he is doing with every different aircraft out there,in your case with Jabirus. Same as some level 2 guys dont know whats going on either.You have to find a guy experienced with Jabirus and have a good reputation.At least your engine made a 1000 hours , which is great.

 

 

[brilin_air]

Try and find a level 2 that you can work with when the plane is being serviced and get them to explain things to you that you don't understand with your plane. It will give you confidence in your plane and with the person doing the service, it also helps when you are on a long trip and some small issue comes up that you might be able to fix it and keep going or give a better description of the fault over the phone to someone who might be able to help.

 

Brian

 

 

[winsor68]

There are lames and there are LAME's...

 

I work with some that wouldn't know the axxe end of a piston engine from its carby... but they are still good at what they are specifically doing. Aircraft Mechanics are not like Motor Mechanics.

 

 

[facthunter]

Probably hard to guarantee a good result anywhere unless you do it your self. Not everyone is in that position, (being qualified) or wants to.

 

I think taking it back to the manufacturers in the case of Jabiru, is a good idea. How often you do this is another matter.

 

I have said many times that Jabiru have little control over what happens to their product in the field. It is also a motor that does need routine servicing, and maintenance. In contrast the Rotax can be left alone and just oil changed and this stops it being "fiddled" with by people who don't know what they are doing. You should still check things lake the carb mount rubbers, exhaust system for cracks and coolant and oil hoses The heads don't need to come off a Rotax very often and the basic motor is not disturbed. It'ss also a motor that can be left for a while often without deterioration , whereas a Jab and most other motors need inhibitting if left unused for long..Nev

 

 

[skyfox1]

You should know your aircraft have a check list of all the major control linkages wing attachment points all of the main thinks you do before your flight take off your engine cowls check the engine mountings.

 

DONT wait for you hundred hourly inspections things can work lose long before that .

 

As far as lames go word of mouth find one with good rep.

 

 

[king_daniels]

Thank you for the quick response so far, after reading what I have read above, my train of thought is to take a day off and do my own maintenance under the supervision of a level 2 who knows my type of aircraft. I asked the manufacturer how long does it take to do a 100 hourly and he replied if there's nothing wrong with the aircraft, you're probably looking at around 5 to 6 hours, also I might have to sign in or apply to do the level 2 course at Temora in April.

 

Daniel

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So will you doing your own maintenance affect your insurance?

 

 

[king_daniels]

So will you doing your own maintenance affect your insurance?

 

Unlikely, providing the maintenence is done under the supervision of a level 2 or a LAME and or either party signs the work off / maitnenance release.

 

Daniel

 

 

[Yenn]

As someone else said there are LAMEs and there are Lames. But even the best can miss something. I was going to do a first flight of a plane and the owner told me it had been checked out by a LAME. I still found about 3 faults and I would trust that LAME implicitly, but my fine tooth comb was a bit finer than his that day. They were not life threatening, but I would not fly till they were fixed.

 

 

[dazza 38]

As someone else said there are LAMEs and there are Lames. But even the best can miss something. I was going to do a first flight of a plane and the owner told me it had been checked out by a LAME. I still found about 3 faults and I would trust that LAME implicitly, but my fine tooth comb was a bit finer than his that day. They were not life threatening, but I would not fly till they were fixed.

Same here Yenn.I have found a couple of unservicabilites on RAA aircraft straight out of a service as well.

.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So what happens in a theoretical situation where you crash due to an engine failure and the cause is traced back to maintenance (ie something simple like sump plug was loose and worked itself out in flight). Does your insurance company payout if you signed of on the maintenance? Do they sue the L2 who supervised even though he didn't turn the spanners?

 

 

[king_daniels]

So what happens in a theoretical situation where you crash due to an engine failure and the cause is traced back to maintenance (ie something simple like sump plug was loose and worked itself out in flight). Does your insurance company payout if you signed of on the maintenance? Do they sue the L2 who supervised even though he didn't turn the spanners?

 

Thats like saying - if you are building a house useing a Lic builder and the builder does not hit a nail in the house,

 

The labourer working under a carpenter stuff up, who is going to wear the blame ???.

 

You should ring the insurance company if you dont know that answer

 

Daniel

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So your saying the L2 is still liable for the damages? I would have thought they would want you to sign a waiver being that you, unlike the labourer that is hired by the builder, are un/semi-skilled.

 

 

[old man emu]

The best protection an owner who does not do the maintenance on his/her own airplane can have is to insist on a detailed log book entry whenever servicing is carried out on the airplane. I have seen some log book entries that just barely trip over the scratch mark for what is required in such an entry. I have often seen entries of the type: "Periodic Inspection carried out in accordance with Whizzo Wonder maintenance procedures. Refer to Job Sheet #### for details."

 

A proper entry should indicate that the work was done in accordance with the Manufacturer's published maintenance procedures, and/or any requirements made by CASA. The entry should show and describe what items were replaced, and if available should show the serial number or some other tracking means for the part. (I know that this is not a legal requirement for RAA airplanes, but better records will prove valuable to you when you want to sell the airplane.)

 

Take a Jabiru, for example. There is no serial number on the Z386 oil filter, or the Z14/15 fuel filter. However, I always make sure that I allocate a Part Identification Number (PIN) to them when I receive them into my parts store. When the boys take them from the storeroom to fit to an airplane, they record the PIN on a parts issue sheet and when the job is done, I write the part description and PIN on the Job Sheet. That way, I can trace these items back to the invoice that refers to them, and I can at least say where I got the parts from, and when.

 

When I get consumables from Jabiru, like brake pads, I insist on them sending me a Release Note because these parts are used on both RAA and VH reg'd airplanes we service. These parts get a PIN and the PIN relates back to the Release Note.

 

A comprehensive logbook entry is invaluable when you go to sell an airplane because the prospective buyer can see that the maintenance was done at suitable standard. By the same token, if you were buying an airplane, you should be more influenced by the contents of the logbooks than any claim that the maintenance was spot on.

 

So, if your maintenance organisation does not use up at least a page of the log book for every Periodic, and more than two lines of a page for work like checking radios and instruments; changing tyres, or any job that takes more than about an hour to do, then you should have a talk to them about improving their record keeping. (I wouldn't worry if a 25/50/75 hour oils change was written up on a line or two.)

 

OME

 

 

[king_daniels]

So your saying the L2 is still liable for the damages? I would have thought they would want you to sign a waiver being that you, unlike the labourer that is hired by the builder, are un/semi-skilled.

 

L2 or LAME is still liable for the damages if he or she is negligent,

 

obviously you have had no-one working under you or for you.

 

However it would not matter to me, I would probably be dead, my elevator cable would have come off, maybe my motor would have vibrated off the loose bolts, my control yoke may have stopped working, the nose could have come off on landing or anything else mentioned on the report, on an aircraft that was serviced by a LAME.

 

And you're worried about whether I would be insured or not if I chose to do my own maintenance under the supervision of a level two or LAME.

 

Daniel

 

 

[facthunter]

I can see you point, Daniel, though this aspect must be considered if we are discussing the subject.

 

If someone performs work that causes a catastrophe there should always be some redress available, particularly if the cause is obvious carelessnes or lack of appropriate process.

 

If a tyre change company don't tighten the wheel nuts up and you wife and kide were killed, you would like to think something was done about it.

 

Some indemnity might be available if the situation wasn't wilfull negligence, but surely there should be no way that someone can contract out of care and have the attitude of "I'm insured , It's OK". Nev

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I do my own 100 hour services. For the first one I did, the local L2 supervised me and signed it off. Since then, I just ask about anything specific that I'm unsure about, but otherwise do all the work myself, following through the maintenance manual. It does take a good part of a day for the engine and several hours for the airframe if nothing needs doing.

 

Just rotating the tyres on the main gear takes a couple of hours by the time you jack the aircraft, remove wheels, remove valves and tubes, reverse tyres on rims and re-assemble. (The XT Tourer base tends to wear tyres more on the inside, and the left more than the right at this location, perhaps due to commonly prevailing cross-wind direction.) When this needs doing I don't wait for the 100 hour service, so breaking up the maintenance into manageable chunks.

 

I split the powerplant and airframe services according to engine and air hours, which get logged separately for every flight. Should I need to actually pull the engine apart, then I'll be using the authorised service organisation. For heavy maintenance, I don't need to buy all the special tools, pullers, jigs etc. and learn while doing it.

 

This evening I'll be refitting the RH wheel spat after repairing stone chips, sanding, repainting and applying a replacement decorative decal. That has taken about a week in the small amounts of time I've had available, although I spent a fair amount of the weekend doing the actual patching and sanding. It was a good project to do while the aerodrome is shut.

 

P.S. I do my own routine car services as well, and used to service my motorbike ( when I had one, many years ago). My wife's last two vehicles have exceeded the capability of home maintenance, as they need to be plugged into computer analysis.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I can see you point, Daniel, though this aspect must be considered if we are discussing the subject.If someone performs work that causes a catastrophe there should always be some redress available, particularly if the cause is obvious carelessnes or lack of appropriate process.

If a tyre change company don't tighten the wheel nuts up and you wife and kide were killed, you would like to think something was done about it.

 

Some indemnity might be available if the situation wasn't wilfull negligence, but surely there should be no way that someone can contract out of care and have the attitude of "I'm insured , It's OK". Nev

You can delegate authority, responsibility, or tasks, but you can't delegate accountability!

 

 

[old man emu]

I split the powerplant and airframe services according to engine and air hours, which get logged separately for every flight.

You are making a rod for your own back and will cause confusion.

 

"Time in Service " is defined as the time between wheels off and wheels on, or "air hours" as you say. The engine hour meter is actually just a guide to that figure, and a great way for airplane hirers to make extra dollars on every hiring.

 

You should try to fit an recording system that operates via an air operated switch. The switch is adjusted to close an electrical circuit when the airspeed of the airplane exceed the stall speed, indicting that the wheels are off the ground and the airplane is flying.

 

As an exercise, calculate how much time you spend on an average flight in taxying to and from the runway, and the time spent in engine run ups. Over a year, that time may add up to several hours and over a few years, could add up to several, thus overstating the service time of the airplane, and reducing its value.

 

OME

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

The Rotax 912 manuals specifically prohibit using any sort of airswitch hours as the basis for maintenance. Servicing has to be done based on engine run hours (start to stop)

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[old man emu]

That's just one engine manufacturer. Jabiru, Lycoming and Continental don't prohibit it.

 

OME

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

That's just one engine manufacturer. Jabiru, Lycoming and Continental don't prohibit it.OME

So if you bench ran, any of the the engines you mention, for 20 hours, that wouldn't count! Sounds like imaginative bookkeeping to me.

My GPS tracks "air hours". It's quite a clever device that uses ground speed and height AGL in combination to switch. My aircraft main instrument (DAT) records actual engine run hours.

 

As Crezzi says, the Rotax manual specifies engine run hours and makes the point that without limitation, it includes run-up, taxiing etc..

 

 

[old man emu]

So if you bench ran, any of the the engines you mention, for 20 hours, that wouldn't count!

That's right. I know it goes against the grain, but thems CASA's rules.

 

As Crezzi says, the Rotax manual specifies engine run hours and makes the point that without limitation, it includes run-up, taxiing etc..

As I said, that is the requirement of ONE manufacturer. If you use one of its engines, then you either keep separate logs of engine and flight hours, OR you run your airframe out of hours quicker than is allowed. I would suggest that you specify in the airplane's service procedures which record is to take precedence for servicing.

 

OME

 

 

[Planechaser]

I have been doing my own servicing( up to 200hrs so far) for the very reason this post was put up. How ever, if I am the only person to look at the plane in 1000hrs, it's a fair bet that I will have missed something continually. There is no substitute for another pair of eyes, because everybody looks at things a little differently.

 

My plan is to take it to someone with a good rep, LAME or L2, and get them to do one of the bigger services(like 400 or 600 for Rotax with the carbs) and then go over the whole thing myself as if it hasn't been done.

 

Anything I have missed should be in the report, and anything they miss I should find, in theory.....

 

It's good to have a theory!

 

I should point out that I maintain vehicles and motor bikes but I am by no means a mechanic. With Service books, some handy walkthroughs from the internet( found a great one for 912"s the other day and learnt a few things!!) and plents of time, it's very doable, but in my opinion time is the key; lots and lots of un interupted time!!