thusterT83 out of control,no ailron responce

[flyerme]

Hello, I own and fly most mournings my T83, single seat ,I ussaully fly first thing in the mourning and have logged up close to 20 hours in it. I have noticed previously lack of ailron responce and last week took off for a day flight 1.6knt wind but 32 deg,after take off I was hit by some mean weather and forced into a left hand back in which I applied full right ailron with no responce and full right rudder and full power ,after turning 240 DEG I managed to level out and land back on the runway safely...On inspecting the ailrons I descouvered the inner supports worn(rivetts and holes ovalled) I then repaired with bushes and fibreglass and made them back ridged...I took off today for a test<weather 24deg,overcast, 0knt wind>

 

again after take off hit rough air so made a turn left only to descover no ailron responce?(55knt ASI) full rudder applied and she just slipped,any way made a safe landing and inspected ailrons and all good? no movement,skins taught? any one fly a T83?how dose it handle? and is your tail flimsy? can rock my tail and the boom flexes a fair bit..Im sure the single thruster are ment to handle well? mines good if the air is still and dence .. but when the wind hits you have the stick pushing into your leg holding it level and have to use the rudder to level back out,,,,,,, any help please?

 

 

 

 

 

[pudestcon]

Crikey Tim!! I don't like the sound of that.

 

I don't have the knowledge or experience to advise you but I'm going to do some ferreting around to see what I can find.

 

Hopefully some of the old, experience guys (where are you DI and Riley, and AVU) that swan around here might be able to help.

 

Pud

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Flyerme, I 'm not an expert on Thrusters, but I might suggest you drop both ailerons a bit and see if this improves things at all. Also check if both wings have the same angle of attack (same level front to back). Make sure both ailerons are rigged identical on both sides, and that they both operate throughout their full travel, up and down.

 

Doesn't sound like it's real safe to fly at present with the lack of aileron effectivness. I'd suggest you stay ground-bound until you get on top of the drama. There's really no reason why those ailerons aren't effective, considering they are full span........................................Maj...

 

 

[flyerme]

Hey Guys,yeh Ive grounded the plane at present,I have Jim Cuthill(Thruster traier and orthority) coming here in 1-2 weeks to repair my supercat he is also going to look at the thruster(he was the test pilot in my thruster),he suspects in adaquet ailron travel,I have noticed you can move the ailron push rods up to another hole this looks like it would lower the ailrons slightly and give more traval? Ill move them today and make some accurate measurements on their traval before i move them and after.. the angle of attack is extreamly high on the singles hence no 3 pointing ,must be wheeled in to avoid a stall and drop..both wing are NOW even as first flight had you using 3/4 right ailron to keep her stright,so we dropped the left wing at the back wing box to make it even with the right wing and it flies stright,just very little ailron responce,,example= in perfect smooth weather I can push the stick left to right fully into my legs(inner thighs) and not fast for a wing rock ,and it barely waggles,and ground sprctators barely notice me waving? As I suffer from anxioty having a hard time with no plane and having to wait a couple weeks for Jim,(yep im an impatiant lil bugger..lol), so I will spend today exploring traval and so forth and see if any thing stands out. also had the missus pull them up while i moved the stick and all good but when she held them down noticed stick wear in the bolts that join the stick to the push rod(in cabin pushrod/twist rod,will fix this also,,keep thinking guys and appreciate all help and advice,,definatly no flying for few days now...damn also I should mention the the stick in flight is very very heavy or stiff,you need a fair force to move it even elevator is a lil heavy(but responcive) what happens is when you hit a lil turbulane and wing drops you give it a heap of oppersite ailron and she evr so slowly rolls back and 1/2 the time you need rudder to correct aswell.

 

 

[flyerme]

Crikey Tim!! I don't like the sound of that.I don't have the knowledge or experience to advise you but I'm going to do some ferreting around to see what I can find.

 

Hopefully some of the old, experience guys (where are you DI and Riley, and AVU) that swan around here might be able to help.

 

Pud

thanks Pud

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Hang onto the aileron outer tip and have some one work the stick. See if they or the wing twists. There may be enough slop in the wing aileron to cancel the aileron. rigged correct, more down than up? Push rod or teleflex cable on your model? If teleflex make sure it has not seperated from the outer housing. Wing covering laced nice and tight. Gap cover on? Might be time to remove the wings and take off the sails and do a through inspection. A little bit of slop and wear over the entire sytem can add up to cancel out things.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[flyerme]

Hang onto the aileron outer tip and have some one work the stick. See if they or the wing twists. There may be enough slop in the wing aileron to cancel the aileron. rigged correct, more down than up? Push rod or teleflex cable on your model? If teleflex make sure it has not seperated from the outer housing. Wing covering laced nice and tight. Gap cover on? Might be time to remove the wings and take off the sails and do a through inspection. A little bit of slop and wear over the entire sytem can add up to cancel out things.Ozzie

the ailerons are all push rod. I will have the missus help me (when she gets outa bed!!) with the stick and check for warping,and check if more up than down?vissa versa..wings are laced tight and wing gap cover tight and sealed nicley. will check wings also for warping.. thank you will let you know if anythings not right.

 

 

[facthunter]

Think ozzie might be onto something there. It's called aileron reversal. If the wing is weak in torsion the force of the deflected aileron will warp the wing cancelling out it's effectiveness. I've seen some "rubbery" quad city challengers that do this and they are not safe in that condition. When that happens you pretty much have to control it on rudder alone (for roll).. Nev

 

 

[flyerme]

Think ozzie might be onto something there. It's called aileron reversal. If the wing is weak in torsion the force of the deflected aileron will warp the wing cancelling out it's effectiveness. I've seen some "rubbery" quad city challengers that do this and they are not safe in that condition. When that happens you pretty much have to control it on rudder alone (for roll).. Nev

yep looks like it? was told by certain level 2 inspector that the strutts where they join the leading edge and trailing edge stainless brackets are ment to have play?????????? unfortunatly this is INCORRECT and the result has worn the strutt end bolt attatchments which now have a bigger gap and 1 is uneven....so have just finished shimming them and TIGHTNING them and wings are a hell of a lot more ridged...also aileron control push rod bolt holes worn so made some nylon bushes..now no play in the ailerons,,will now look at moving the aileron pushrods up to the other hole(other holes have very promanant washer markings indicating pushrods where once in them holes)..ill give it a thourough inspection with the missus moving the stick and see what happens? then will have to wait till saturday by the look of the weather for a flight test:helmet:

 

 

[flyerme]

All finished and ready for a test! everything is nice and tight now,also moved push rods to the upper hole which not only pulls them down a couple of mill but also gives you more stick .......same stick travell=more aileron movement..we,ll see how she goes and keep you updated.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I never liked those strut wing attach brackets that are made of stainless. If i had a Thruster of any type today i would make up some safety straps using SS tangs and short cable and fit one end to a strut fitting bolt and the other to the wing strut attachment bolt. That way if the bracket failed like they have done previously the strut will still stay near where it should be until you can land.

 

 

[flyerme]

I never liked those strut wing attach brackets that are made of stainless. If i had a Thruster of any type today i would make up some safety straps using SS tangs and short cable and fit one end to a strut fitting bolt and the other to the wing strut attachment bolt. That way if the bracket failed like they have done previously the strut will still stay near where it should be until you can land.

these are the newer brackets that are spot welded and not seem welded as the ones that faiedl ,they have been replaced, but I agree and have done (made up safety cable prevously) also tail has extra safety wires holding it to the boom should the tiny thin stainless toungues that are welded one side break .the tail will still be held in place...safety first.....keen to see how she performs this time as long as the weather has no suprises???? Ive been thinking about its roll performance and can best describe it as if it were attatched to a bunggy cord...you move the stick to say the left then wait for the plane to slowly bank then move the stick to the right fully and ever so slowly she rolls back level..

 

 

[Yenn]

If I remember corectly there was an AD out years ago to inspect all SS wing brackets before every flight. But back to your problems, if you don't find anything wrong with the mechanism, have a good look at the piece of skin which covers the gap between the two wings. I do not know the single seater, but if that skin was loose or defective in any way it could affect the handling of the two seater.

 

 

[flyerme]

If I remember corectly there was an AD out years ago to inspect all SS wing brackets before every flight. But back to your problems, if you don't find anything wrong with the mechanism, have a good look at the piece of skin which covers the gap between the two wings. I do not know the single seater, but if that skin was loose or defective in any way it could affect the handling of the two seater.

you would be correct,the only recorded fatelity in a thruster was a twin seater that had the wing attachment brackets Fail..they failed because the aircraft had had 2 minnor crashes prior and bent them and the owner just bent them back to shape and of coarse weekend them..these were the seem welded ones and the AD says to replace these with the spot welded ones,,anyway back to my beast,the centre gap cover skin is sowne one side and valcro the other,I had another piece of valcro made up in the begining to keep the cover tight and secure,so definatly not prob...I suspect it will handle better now with all the worn bits taken care of and the adjustment made to the ailerons ,also removed the aileron skin tension cords and replced with zip ties which made the skins about 10% tighter.it feels different all ready,,,, before the stick was sort of bouncy rather than solid and now feels tight and smooth...and always check ALL ss brackets..their shit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also single seat wing box 's must be replaced..mild steel will do the trick.

 

 

[flyerme]

After much work and adjustment..........................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

every now and again my balls retract....as I sat at the start of my runway I became nervy and sat a good 5mins then out of nowhere my balls dropped I hit the throttle and became airborne..wahoo I fixed my lilplane,,she flies beautifully,very impressed concidering how rough it was..just a quick curcuit and back on the ground..awesome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.stick just sat centered. stick very stiff but very sensitive.....did not need anymore than a 1/2 an inch either side compareed to a foot either side pushing into my leg...work done: all aileron controls re bushed and tightened,Ailerons supports fibreglassed All skins re-tightened,stick control rod bushed and tightened,wing strutt ends to leading and trailing edge bracketts shimed and tightend ,flew streight with stick centered,and turbulance was no match for the trusty thrusty....very impressed with its handling Now...it may even make the bridge now ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fly_tornado]

congratulations

 

 

[Thirsty]

On ya Tim.

 

 

[flyerme]

congratulations

thank you

 

 

[flyerme]

On ya Tim.

Thanks Tony

 

 

[Suitman]

Well done Flyerme! Congratulations! All safely done too - most importantly.

 

Peter

 

 

[pudestcon]

Goodonya flyerme,

 

It's always nice when a satisfactory conclusion is reached. Well done.

 

Pud

 

 

[flyerme]

Well done Flyerme! Congratulations! All safely done too - most importantly.Peter

Thanks Peter ,had my flying instuctor here yesturday and I put it up in a long circuit,was 5.5knott south but smooth..took it up this mourning 6.6knotss southerly,and rough as guts,but she was very responsive and I mushed her threw the extreme sink and turbulance for a lovely landing,,,handeling awesome and that reliable ROBIN never skips a beat...I ve put a new Runway at my Pa.s proprty in peak(nth side of hwy est side of town,running est west,,now this is a challege !!!!!!! its 1 way in 1 way out as a powerline is at 1 end its only 260meters fence each end with the approch(est end) at start of runway will be between 2 40ft gumtrees with a gap of 85 ft, the Thruster should drop in their easy enough given perfect weather,, ,whats that perfect weather? ha ha as if...

 

 

[flyerme]

Goodonya flyerme,It's always nice when a satisfactory conclusion is reached. Well done.

Pud

thanks Pud

 

 

[flyerme]

sorry posted twice?

 

 

[flyerme]

me flying my thruster,taking off from home and flying to peake for first time landing on Pa,s new strip(240meters,powerlines one end <1 way in,1 way out> trees the other end,then fly back home to sherlock.. and a quick circuit in rough weather(thats not me making control inputs!!!!!)