It must get easier with time.

[old man emu]

I reckon the worst part of learning to fly is landing. Do you get all tense and sweaty between turning Base and bumping down? I do. But it must get easier sometime, surely.

 

Haven't you watched heaps of videos where the pilot plops the plane onto a runway without seeming to have a second thought about what going on? How about all those WWll fighter and bomber pilots who got their planes back on the ground despite being shot up themselves, or having great chunks of plane missing or flapping in the slipstream. What about those amazing stories like the Gilby Glider, or the Landing in the Hudson River?

 

I've been driving a car for over forty years. I can't recall doing any conscious thinking about how I am going to get my car into the place I want it, be it a parking place or a a position on the road. Is it practice that lets my sub-conscious take over the mundane task, or is it experience that comes from years of practical driving?

 

There's a young lady currently operating a meat bomber out of Camden. I wonder when she reached that point where she can relax on final and monitor the plane's flightpath, rather than tensing up and wrestling it down to the ground.

 

I'm sure that when one passes that point, flying becomes truely recreational.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I am pretty sure landing is tricky, especially in a light plane on a windy/gusty/thermally day.

 

 

[farri]

I reckon the worst part of learning to fly is landing. Do you get all tense and sweaty between turning Base and bumping down? I do. But it must get easier sometime, surely. Old Man Emu

Hi OME, I take it you are not flightless anymore.

 

When I was instructing, one of my students was a doctor and surgeon. He was having a little trouble with his landings.

 

On this occasion, once the aircraft had come to a stop, in frustration, he said, and I quote, "I know I`m not stupid, I know I`m skillful, so when am I going to get this ?"... I thought about it for a second and replied, "It wil take as long as it takes you to get it"....After another couple of lesons he went solo. Still flies his own RAA registered aircraft.

 

It will only get easier, if and when, you make it easier....I believe the instructor is only there to show you what to do and keep you out of trouble until you can do it.

 

Frank.

 

 

[eightyknots]

I reckon the worst part of learning to fly is landing. Do you get all tense and sweaty between turning Base and bumping down? I do. But it must get easier sometime, surely.

I am still in the training phase and landings cause relatively more adrenaline to flow for me as well.

 

What about the take off roll? How much adrenaline would have flowed in the pilot's veins during this take off? You'll need to watch full screen to fully appreciate this take off:

 

 

 

[farri]

I am still in the training phase and landings cause relatively more adrenaline to flow for me as well.

Hey 80kts, That`s understandable!...Terror firmer is firmer than the sky or the aircraft.

 

Frank.

 

 

[ossie]

There's a young lady currently operating a meat bomber out of Camden...... Old Man Emu

Hey Mark, and ain't Nina a pretty little thing

 

 

[old man emu]

ain't Nina a pretty little thing

I find her a delightful young lady with a a professional attitude to her flying and care for her airplane and passengers.

 

OME

 

And she's a damned sight easier on the eyes than the glider tug pilots around the place !

 

 

[facthunter]

No matter how much time you have in aviation have there are occasions when you have to put every thing you have into the situation that presents itself to you. You never reach a state where you can sit back and relax. Never.. There is always something that will challenge you. Totally and completely Nev

 

 

[IanR]

I find her a delightful young lady with a a professional attitude to her flying and care for her airplane and passengers.OME

 

And she's a damned sight easier on the eyes than the glider tug pilots around the place !

And she is certainly very relaxed while waiting for the next load - deck chair and a book under the wing !!

 

 

[turboplanner]

OME, go and book an hour or two in a Cherokee with a GA instructor. Then you'll know how much is you and how much is the much lighter RA machine dancing around.

 

A couple of hours of circuits and you should be comfortable with landings. Tell the instructor why you are doing it so he can do the radio, downwind checks etc and just leave you with the workload of positioning the aircraft to land accurately. I'd also tell him you don't want crosswinds either, you can learn those with your RA instructor where the dancing around reaches full rapper performance.

 

Then, back in RA take the average of the dances and add a whole heap of concentration.

 

 

[facthunter]

Going back to your initial post OME, If you do tense up you won't fly well. You have to know what amount of deviation due to gusts etc is worth chasing. You do have to control the plane in an overall sense, especially during the flare when conditions are a bit marginal. In fact if you are not where you want to be, you will give it away and go-around, but at this stage, your instructor will handle that.

 

Smaller planes are affected by wind gusts considerably. Some of the very light ones are only flown in calm conditions. This is similar to the early aircraft around 1910. ( I've read some books written by early aviators who were in the business of instructing then, It's not a personal recollection). Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Is it true you were a personal friend of Biggles Nev?

 

 

[dazza 38]

Of course it does OME.(get easier) I honestly think that people in their brains make it out to be harder than it actually is. Flying a plane with a training wheel at the front is easy, no different that parking a car .Even if a pilot has some time off.

 

The differnce is, is the weather.In calm conditions, easy as.If somebody isnt current and are hit with a big x wind.They have to work at it, but in a tri gear,it should not be a problem.TW is different, because it is like riding dirt bikes compared to road bikes. Things can and do go pair shaped realy quickly. I dont recommend flying a TW , without getting checked out if not having flown one for a while.

 

Anyway I back up what I say- I had a break from flying from Jan 2000 to August 2008.For over 8 years i never flew a plane.(it was a gazzelle , Piper Archer,Piper warrior, Cessna C150, Jabiru LSA 55, Austflight Drifter, Javelin before that LOL.)I did a 1.1 hours refresher training in a aircraft I have

 

never flown before (Tecnam Golf) then passed my BFR by the book.Only difference was that my BFR was 2.1 hours over 2 flights (same day) . I had about 100 hours then.

 

I mention this because, flying is not rocket science.People make it hard for themselves.The overload their brains too much.Fly the plane and FEEL the plane through the stick, ask yourself ? what is it doing, what do you want it to do etc.Modern planes like teccys are very forgiving.Most people over control them. I reckon.

 

BTW- The RAA have my log book entries on record.Everything I have said is on record. Cheers

 

PS- I also studied up on air ledge etc .I re- sat some theory exams because I was out of the game for a while.Didnt have too, technically.

 

 

[facthunter]

No Turbs, it was "blackjack" Brian Walker. Funny thing. He was this bloke I got to know who used to putter around West Maitland in an Auster when I was there. We had a common interest in racing Peugeots and he bought all my "hot" stuff that I had made when I went South. He never mentioned Beaufighters or anything like that so I only learned of his exploits later. That's sort of interesting isn't it?. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

A lot of them just blanked out their service. It wasn't done to complain about the after-effects or boast about the exploits.

 

I was brought in to a job once to replace a guy who was drinking too much and had become very inefficient.

 

Months later we were talking about him and someone said "You knew he was a Spitfire Pilot?"

 

Didn't feel too good for a long time.

 

 

[Tomo]

There's a young lady currently operating a meat bomber out of Camden. I wonder when she reached that point where she can relax on final and monitor the plane's flightpath, rather than tensing up and wrestling it down to the ground.I'm sure that when one passes that point, flying becomes truely recreational.

You should be looking at the aeroplane, not the lady!!

 

But yes, it does get easier, though easier may be a bad term... one just learns how to cope with the situation and fly the aeroplane rather than the aeroplane fly you. I remember learning to fly the drifter when I first got started, and to keep the thing straight on the runway I could not, frustrated me to think I can't do it... but with practise and learning the correct technique it now comes almost second nature, taking off in a straight line now is an almost non event in some ways.

 

Just like reading, once you know the sounds and way something is said, it makes it sooo much easier (though sometimes I still can't figure it!) I think by gaining an understanding and by practise you develop the required skill to overcome the task at hand, though sometimes things will come up that causes the blood pressure to go up!

 

 

[dazza 38]

Interesting reading Flight Safety (March/ April) a hour ago.Stated on page 8. During WW I, trainee pilots frequently flew solo after as little as 3 hours.At 20 hours some became instructors. (Good effort, with the aircraft around back then).

 

WWII- 6 hours to solo was not uncommon.Maybe more luck than good managment.lol

 

Seriously though, one has to wonder why some people take 15 or more hours to go solo, in modern training aircraft used today.

 

.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

We are all different Dazza, and there are some around who are just more natural than others!...the term we used to use to discribe a really hot skydiver, and one who flew in freefall very natually was "he shxxs birdseed !" Still very appropriate sometimes..

 

Yes OME it does get easier, and you do become more relaxed, and yes like many other things it does come with experience. Some aircraft types will assist us in getting there quicker, while others take a lot longer to become 'relaxed' in.

 

Do it often, and do it well, and before you know it, you may start 'shxxing birdseed also !'.......Cheers Maj...

 

 

[facthunter]

Around 8 hours was considered OK. They were capable of spin recovery before solo. There was more in it than we do now. WW1 stuff was a bit hit and miss. Plenty of people taught themselves. Lots of prangs. Think the low speed was the only saving grace. The Wright brothers taught themselves. Nev

 

 

[gareth lacey]

some people take more than 15 hrs because the schools are a business ie more hrs more income and us older blokes (and gals) are in a different comfort zone to normal 22 lessons and close too first solo!

 

cheers gareth

 

 

[old man emu]

Around 8 hours was considered OK. They were capable of spin recovery before solo. There was more in it than we do now. WW1 stuff was a bit hit and miss. Plenty of people taught themselves. Lots of prangs. Think the low speed was the only saving grace. The Wright brothers taught themselves. Nev

Yes, solo in 8 hours, but don't forget that large numbers of trainees were "washed out" before that time because they did not have the aptitude for flying and were reposted to other duties. (Those were the lucky ones. There were a lot who killed themselves and their instructors beforehand.)

 

What I had in mind when I started this thread was that there must come a Eureka! moment when all the practice finally gels and you realise that you have just done your first greaser landing. And from that time onwards you can set up and land an airplane almost subconsciously.

 

Why is it that it usually only takes one training session to master each upper airwork manoeuvre, yet mastering that quick trip down Finals to wheels is so hard. Is it that are constantly fed a diet of tales of landing failures, like stall-spins, heavy landings, ground loops and such?

 

I remember when I was learning to fly way back in my youth. I couldn't get the hang of cross-wind landings, no matter how much my junior instructor tried to show me. Finally he handed me over to the CFI. His instruction was simplicity itself:

 

CFI: "Can you drive a car?"

 

ME: "Uh hu."

 

CFI: "Well, as you are coming down Finals, kick in rudder to fly into the wind, then steer the plane like a car to keep on the line of the runway."

 

The next landing was my Eureka moment.

 

OME

 

 

[kaz3g]

I am still in the training phase and landings cause relatively more adrenaline to flow for me as well.

After more than 30 years of flying in a variety of small aircraft - gliders, VH and RA, tricycle and TW - I still find every flight is a training flight (learning experience) and nothing focuses my attention better than landing one (especially the Auster).

 

If I do start to relax or allow a little fatigue to dull my thinking, something exciting is almost bound to bring me back to the job on hand with a jolt... keep those feet moving on the rudders, kaz!... a little voice says inside my head as I peddle a bit harder and the heart rate goes up.

 

Have you noticed how many pilots, when sitting outside the clubhouse or working around their aeroplanes, hardly take a glance at an another machine taking off but stop and watch when they hear one on finals? A good landing is undoubtedly one of the most demanding sequences of coordination between mind and body that we mortals attempt as pilots.

 

But more of us die as the result of things going bad on takeoff than do because a landing is stuffed up.

 

kaz

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I am still in the training phase and landings cause relatively more adrenaline to flow for me as well.What about the take off roll? How much adrenaline would have flowed in the pilot's veins during this take off? You'll need to watch full screen to fully appreciate this take off:

 

Crikey! Long TO run, downhill, and still stuck to the ground...was he carrying a load of bricks?

 

 

[Camel]

OME as a hint to getting your skill to the point of greasers consistently is simple and that is about where you are looking, and if you are looking ahead to the end of the runway and beyond to the horizon then you will find it very easy to control the landing and once it's been done right it is like the penny has dropped, also the old saying you havn't finished flying till the plane is tied down or in the hangar as people get close to the ground and seem to think thats good enough ending in a bad landing and this is the most important time and that's when the instructor is ranting "hold off hold off ". Hope this helps

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I don't think I had any "eureka moment", per se. My area of difficulty was consistency. I could land well, sometimes... obviously not solo material! In the end, I changed from doing two lessons a week to doing one every day. I said to the CFI that I felt I just needed to not have the time gaps in between the lessons to assist with getting the "muscle memory". The CFI was expecting me to solo at about 9 hours, but it was consistency that was holding me back. He emphasised that "every landing was different", so I consciously tried not to make a formula of it and to just try and and feel it. That may also have kept me from solo for a few hours, but I don't regret that as, every landing is different and I now don't get perturbed when unexpected things happen on short final, I just react to them.

 

On the third consecutive day, I reached the point where I felt I had become consistent and was offered the solo flight. That was at 13 hours. On my license test I did one pretty firm landing that but for doing everything else well would have resulted in a fail. Needless to say, I have continued to improve since that time, and with experience. It is rare for me to do a go-around, although I'm prepared to do so at every landing.

 

It all seems like a long time ago, now, albeit only 28 months and 290 hours ago.