So what makes a good landing?

[Guest davidh10]

"look at a duck or pelican landing and see if you can do the same".

If my wings start flapping, I'd be very worried

 

Secondly, "every flight should end in the perfect stall, three inches above the deck".

That sounds like a crash from 3" above the runway!

What happens when you have just stalled and a strong gust hits you ? Hard to go-around when you have stopped flying..

 

 

[Yenn]

Every time I open a new magazine there is another how to do it article. If I could convert the number of articles I've read into landing I would be an expert. As time goes by there are more peple pushing their theories and as far as I can see some of them are rubbush. For aterters they push methods that will not work for taildraggers, not realising that if you land a nose dragger the same way as a taildragger you will be safe. My advice is to read one of the old articles and then just keep practicing. You will then be able to say you are going for your second greaser after 500 tries as I did. I gave up on the first one.

 

 

[Guest aussie carl]

'handing over' always worked well for me. :)

Never ! My instructor will have to "Take over" before I will let him take it.

But yer the best landing starts late downwind after you have considered wind direction, wind gusts, turbulence, traffic and air speed.

 

the moment of touch down is from my limited experience is "experience".

 

"Good experience is only gained by bad experiences"

 

 

[rocket1172]

Theory is taught, tasks are practiced, experienced gained. Prior planning is essential, but being prepared to change the plan and quickly adapt to an ever changing picture, is crucial. How many times have we gone out and painted a perfect picture for ourselves, only to be a little dejected when it doesn't pan out that way? It's different for me as an ex Aggie. You soon get experience after doing 60 take off and landings in one day. Pull out of paddock, lose airspeed, power off, white arc, full flap, 100 ft high, x-wind, a little downwind, airspeed good, prop pitch fine, no time for trimming, into wind wheel down first, then the rest, flaps up............Sorry, fell into a bit of a trance then. My point here is, that you don't need a stable approach for things to happen nicely at the pointy end. But when you are starting out, it is a good starting point. When your eyes are firmly planted at the end of the runway while flaring, who cares what happened on downwind and base.......its how you played the cards you were dealt. And to add fuel to the fire.......my previous description of the Ag landing does not lend itself to attitude controlling airspeed etc.......to me, (primrary effects of controls), power gives you speed.....and the stick always steers the damn thing!!!!!

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

A good landing is one where you, as PIC, are happy with it. It doesn't have to be a greaser, although you may aspire to make most landings that light. There can also be conditions in which you need to plant it firmly (but not roughly).

 

Having a standard circuit when learning is good to set up not just the aircraft, but the mind. As rocket1172 said, when you are in ground effect, what you did before that is history, and while it does have some bearing on your trajectory, the further back you trace the path, the less relevant it becomes.

 

In a pitch and recover landing, you don't have nice straight sight lines along a glide path. Nothing to line up with on the windscreen. Your sight path at the beginning is over your shoulder, then out to the side. You have to judge the descent rate while banking on a circular glide path. If you aren't the first aircraft in the pattern, then you also have to maintain your distance behind the aircraft only seconds ahead of you, and stay just above its wake turbulence. At the same time you have to judge the diameter of your turn so that it ends on the the runway. As you stop banking, you are either in or very close to being in ground effect, then on the ground.

 

 

[Tomo]

Finesse!

 

The more landings you do, the more critical you, the pilot gets of your own landings I think. I think I'm one of the worst ones in that bracket... every landing there's just something that could have been better! To make a seamless touch down you need to be landing on smooth grass... as bitumen always makes a little 'screech' sound spinning the wheels up, which in turn causes a slight jerk.

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

That's a harsh landing FH. Rather than spin the wheels up on the grass, I use boundary layer turbulence to get them going, then just settle a mm at a time.

I used to have fantasies like that too, Turbs. But my Mum told me it'd make hair grow on my palms, so I almost stopped...

 

 

 

[turboplanner]

I could just imagine FH sitting there, a far away look in his eyes, everything under control, gentle flair, then giving the grass an ever so slight touch to get the wheels spinning..........

 

I remember the old 727 landings, you made sure your tongue was well clear of your teeth before the bump came.......

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

I think you might be right, Wayne. The tendency to have the tail get out into the passing lane seems a more common phenomenon than we sometimes care to admit. But I've got to say nothing seems to be able to combine both the swing and the bounce like an Auster. That big wingspan (36') and the bungees can do it anytime.I really like your Cub.

 

kaz

Thanks Kaz. I have to admit though, the Ole girl is not a hangar queen. She works for a living, and you can see that when you get up close...

 

I haven't flown an Auster yet, but David Isaac has promised me a go when he gets his back in the sky and I'm looking forward to it big time...

 

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

I could just imagine FH sitting there, a far away look in his eyes, everything under control, gentle flair, then giving the grass an ever so slight touch to get the wheels spinning..........I remember the old 727 landings, you made sure your tongue was well clear of your teeth before the bump came.......

I remember those 727 landings too... We affectionally refered to them as being "positive", and I had plenty of practise putting the pax oxy masks back into their overhead box thingie...

 

 

[Guernsey]

I agree. I usually make three good landings after flaring.The first at 6', the second at 3' and on a good day the last one at 3".

rgmwa

And it's a good way to maintain your passenger rating. (3 landings in three months)

 

Alan.

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

Stalling one to three inches above the ground, onto the blade of grass I selected while downwind is what I aim for, although very rarely achieve. This is the same technique for tailwheel and trikes by the way.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

onto the blade of grass I selected while downwind is what I aim for, although very rarely achieve.

Not much help for my six night landings last night!

PS: Apologies to the residents of Canberra, Mascot, Merimbula and Dubbo if I woke you last night.

 

 

[farri]

As the saying goes, they are all good if you can walk away afterwards but they are great if you can use the aeroplane again.

Shame on you kg, You stole my line.

 

Appart from trying to cause as little stress as possible to the aircraft, competing in a best landing competition, trying to impress the examiner on a BFR , the croud looking on or any other number of reasons....Why is it that so many pilots become absolutely obsessed in trying to do the perfect landing when the aircraft was made for flying?

 

Frank. Now I`m going flying again and as the wind has picked up, I hope I do the perfect landing.....

 

 

[dazza 38]

I hate that saying "every landing you walk away "etc.That is BS. Everybody should be trying to do greaser when landing.If not , they are not trying to better themselves. Also if trying to do the perfect landing, you are trying to do the perfect approach.Need a perfect approach to make a perfect landing. Anyway everybody has their own standards I guess.I dont mind bouncing a TW aircraft occasionly being what they are, but if I do a slight bounce in a tri gear aircraft, (maybe one in a hundred landings) I realy get pissed off at myself.Shouldnt happen( in a plane you are used to) OK in a plane you have never flown before.Dont get me started on wankers who for what ever reason smashes the nose wheel off a tri gear aeroplane.How the f^&K does that happen. How does the nose wheel hit the deck first.DO they forget about flairing ?. Yes they do, they try and drive the aeroplane onto the deck.Instead of letting the aeroplane settle on the deck.Cheers

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Geez mate that's a bit harsh, I've had quite a few I have been happy to walk away from! Not sure there is anyone out there not trying to do the best they can everytime, it's an inherent trait amongst pilots. As for wheelbarrowing it on, I think you will find it is a symptom of 'trying to do a greaser' and/or too much power.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

"Not much help for my six night landings last night!"

 

A runway light would do or any other point on the runway. A greaser in the last quarter of the runway is not a good landing. As self critical pilots, I believe we should be nominating our landing spot and being disappointed if we miss it.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Fellas I am talking about Ultralight/LSA here not Turbo prop crop dusters and or King airs.Im talking about low speed low inertia aircraft. Never flown a Kingair or Turbo Thrush.Biggest I have flown is a Piper Archer.(The Archer was hard to land (NOT) with that undercarrage.)Even the Archer was heavy compared to the run of the mill LSA. Im talking about finesse.No problem with damage flairing a Archer 2 foot to high.It will be punished, but it will take it.Try flaring 2 foot to high in a run of the mill 95.10 95.25 aeroplane.Probably damage it.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

As self critical pilots, I believe we should be nominating our landing spot and being disappointed if we miss it.

Every time!

 

Try flaring 2 foot to high in a run of the mill 95.10 95.25 aeroplane.Probably damage it.

Do they get that high?

 

 

[dazza 38]

I know what I have said,comes across as me being realy arrogant. (I am a aries LOL). I dont mean to0.What I mean is that Ultralights are by design pretty weak in the U/c department. Does not take alot to bend them.Thats why students flying ultralights have to realy have their stuff together.Otherwise insurance and the price of repairs heads north.PS- imagine F-18 hornet gear. Dont worry about flairing, just slam her on the deck.How good would that be.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Why we are on the subject.There some great LSA types out there in regards to heavy landings.I reckon Ole's hornet with the trailing link U/c.Would cop a pounding no problem.Savage Cub does well in a bounce.(I know from experience). Skyfox TW aircraft didnt do the best.I reckon they had not much dampening.Seem to shoot the pilot into the air if landed heavy.Causes pilot un-induced bounces.(if that makes sence).When Landed too heavy it bent the lower longeron where the U/c is attached to.

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

Now come on Dazza, don't sugar coat it Mate, tell us exactly how you feel....

 

 

 

[Guernsey]

Morgans can take a pretty heavy landing without much bounce.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Morgans? This could just keep going round and round...

 

 

[Guernsey]

Regarding tricycle aircraft I have found quite a few pilots don't like to hold off with a high nose attitude because they lose sight of the runway, hence the flatter incorrect flare.

 

I learned on tail draggers (Auster) so the high nose attitude is normal to me. Apart from the extra rudder input required, to me, landing either types is exactly the same.

 

Alan.