Windsocks

[skeptic36]

I agree with you 100%, all pilots should be proficient in knowing what the wind is doing with no winds socks at all (I guess I have about 1000)... but gaining that proficiency?

That is why I don't bother putting one on my strip, because if a pilot is too nervous to land just using the many trees around and the smoke coming out of Mums chimney as indicators then it may save me untangling them from the fence.

I don't know about the throwing grass or dirt in the air thing because at the time I want to know most what the wind is doing:super hero: all the grass and dirt is about 500 feet below me, and I dont think I could remember to take some with me

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[eightyknots]

To complicate matters at times, in some cases two windsocks at an airfield may be blowing different directions simultaneously. In this forum -about a year ago- I read about an airfield in FNQ that was frequently like that. Only pilots with many hours flight time were permitted to land. Someone else may remember which aerodrome that was.

 

 

[farri]

You seem to have taken some offence Frank, my sincere apologies, it was a very light hearted and jovial post (I thought that was apparent and those little guys at the end reflected that), the internet does not help as a medium in this context. I certainly wasn't asking you to explain yourself, on the contrary, I was interested in how you developed an understanding in your students for winds strengths and hence off field (no sock) landings.I will add finally that I agree with you 100%, all pilots should be proficient in knowing what the wind is doing with no winds socks at all (I guess I have about 1000)... but gaining that proficiency?

Tex! I wasn`t sure how to take what you said so I reacted in the way that I did!... I apologise to you also, no problems here.

 

I would like to respond but because my response will cover more than just windsocks and this is puds thread, primarily about windsocks! I`m not sure whether to do it here or start a new thread.

 

Sugestions Please!

 

Frank.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Tex! I wasn`t sure how to take what you said so I reacted in the way that I did!... I apologise to you also, no problems here.I would like to respond but because my response will cover more than just windsocks and this is puds thread, primarily about windsocks! I`m not sure whether to do it here or start a new thread.

 

Sugestions Please!

 

Frank.

Pudestcon started this thread but I suppose we, as Forumites, have collective ownership in some way.

 

Go right ahead Frank. After my initial comment about calibrated windsocks, I am very happy to hear other angles (pun intended) on windsocks as well.

 

 

[pudestcon]

Go for it Frank. I might learn something

 

Pud

 

 

[Tex]

Hey Frank, Good show sorry for the late reply been went flying and camped out at the strip. No doubt I will learn something also

 

 

[farri]

I`ve had a real good long think about whether I should go into detail about what and the way I taught...I don`t think that it`s worth it because when I started teaching, we had Drifters and Thrusters as training aircraft, no access to aerodromes and therefore most of the training and flying was being done from paddocks somewhere,however, I`ll give one example.

 

I stoped instructing a few years ago and the guys who are already capable, wouldn`t want me preaching to them anyway.. These days, on this forum, I simply try to help someone if I can and express my own opinions! That`s it! full stop.

 

Keep in mind that when I started instructing, we had to remain below 500` agl.... CASA had granted me quite a large training area though! The northern boundary was the Mulgrave river to an altitude of 2000`amsl and it went for 10 nm to the south...I trained from my own property and because of this I was able to teach in ways that just couldn`t and can`t be done at aerodromes..A few years before I stoped instructing, 5000`amsl and flight into non controled aerodromes did come in and after that happened I`d take students to Innisfail or Atherton aerodrome so that they could have a go there as well.

 

One example of how I profferd to instruct.

 

There is no point in letting a student try to take-off or land the aircraft until they have control of the aircraft.....We have the Mulgrave river just a few hundred mts to the north of my strip and it winds around all over the place in a very short distance..At the second lesson, I would have my student follow me through on the controls while I flew the course of the river, remaining below 500`agl... It was quite safe as there are open paddocks on either side of the river... The objective of the exercise was to remain in the middle of the river, maintain a constant altitude, hold off drift, while following the exact course of the river...This meant that they were really getting several lesons in one... Once they could do this to my satisfaction,they had attained sufficient control of the AC to have a go at taking off and landing...I can say with all honesty, that no one ever objected, they enjoyed it and gained control of the Drifter, pretty quickly.

 

Now flight training is mostly done in todays modern aircraft, out of aerodromes, where all the correct proceedures required at aerodromes needs to be learnt and adheard to, so, can anyone learn to take-off and land without a windsock???....They could at my school.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Tomo]

Following the river, or creek in my case, was an extremely good way to get to know the aircraft, I must say it was the 3rd or 4th lesson when we started doing that too. (in the correct area and approval for doing so of course)

 

Lookout, power management, speed, balance, height, attitude, smooth affective control, wind direction, engine failures into the paddock. Also later on in my low level training we touched on a lot more of this even closer to the ground.

 

 

[farri]

Following the river, or creek in my case, was an extremely good way to get to know the aircraft, I must say it was the 3rd or 4th lesson when we started doing that too. (in the correct area and approval for doing so of course

Thanks Tomo, I am glad to read that! I`m interested in the altitude you used but forget it if it will put you in the poo!

 

Originally, because the northern side of the river was out of my training area we couldn`t go above 500` agl, I would start at 500` and eventually get down to 300` because the lower you are the more you see the mistakes and the more accurate the the control input needs to be.

 

Frank.

 

 

[naremman]

G'day Pud,

 

The RFDS Western Ops website gives the following as suppliers of windsocks available in WA:

 

Taskers

 

58 Sparks Rd

 

HENDERSON 6166 Ph: 94379222

 

www.taskers.com.au

 

A & B Canvas

 

12/14 Hodgson Way

 

KEWDALE 6105 Ph: 0427 600090

 

www.canvasaustralia.com.au

 

On the airfield specs there is a design for a windsock pole and sleeve, which I am certain would survive a Cat 5 cyclone, but I don't think this old cocky would make one quite like that.

 

Looking forward to the chance of making an aerial inspection once you have your windsock established Pud.

 

 

[Tex]

I did the river and creek runs as well my first few lessons, well before I could land (less than 3 times in any one attempt)

 

 

[pudestcon]

G'day Pud,The RFDS Western Ops website gives the following as suppliers of windsocks available in WA:

 

Taskers

 

58 Sparks Rd

 

HENDERSON 6166 Ph: 94379222

 

www.taskers.com.au

 

A & B Canvas

 

12/14 Hodgson Way

 

KEWDALE 6105 Ph: 0427 600090

 

www.canvasaustralia.com.au

 

On the airfield specs there is a design for a windsock pole and sleeve, which I am certain would survive a Cat 5 cyclone, but I don't think this old cocky would make one quite like that.

 

Looking forward to the chance of making an aerial inspection once you have your windsock established Pud.

Thaks for the supplier contacts naremman, I'll probably repair an old one we acquired, for now.

You are welcome to visit anytime you like - just need to contact me first so I can let Poll the owner (who s a member here but does not log in much) know to expect you. I can only get to the hangar every 4 weeks or so at the moment, but it would be great to catch up sometime. What are you flying mostly these days? It would be a fair way from your neck of the woods to North Gabbin.

 

Pud

 

 

[pudestcon]

I only did a 'river run' once, with an instructor, and found it extremely useful for sharpening up skills. We followed the Avon River from York to Beverley and what an adrenaline rush it was.

 

Pud

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

We followed the Avon River from York to Beverley and what an adrenaline rush it was.

Pelicans?

 

 

[pudestcon]

Pelicans?

Didn't see any

Pud

 

 

[Tomo]

Thanks Tomo, I am glad to read that! I`m interested in the altitude you used but forget it if it will put you in the poo!

Flew as high as necessary to enable a safe landing if the old girl quit.

 

 

[frank marriott]

"Folllowing rivers & creeks"

 

Not relevant to instructing students in areas that are known to the instructor but for anyone thinking about doing same for fun - be aware of power lines.

 

I have done charters for Fisheies Dept looking for nets and if you are not very familar with the particular area be very careful about power lines as they are hard to identify - top of hill to top of hill can have lines that are over 500ft agl in the valleys without any orange balls.

 

Can be enjoyable but just be careful - lines can come up very quickly.

 

Don't just rely on the WAC as they are not always completly up to date.

 

FrankM

 

 

[Riley]

I only did a 'river run' once, with an instructor, and found it extremely useful for sharpening up skills. We followed the Avon River from York to Beverley and what an adrenaline rush it was.Pud

Pud

Betcha I flew the same river with the same instructor (probably around the same time) but in the T300 not the Gazelle. Did it again on the Moore River shortly after being cut loose but was on my own so was nowhere near as close to the vegitation. I agree, what great fun it was for a newbie. cheers

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Pud

 

Great topic.

 

A bit of info that is not relevant to your original post but interesting

 

I flew a G A pilot to his station strip during a air show last year

 

He had just graded a strip through Salt bush

 

I was the first plane to land on it

 

He described the conditions spot on

 

And he then added that the wind sock was home made using a SCREEN DOOR hanging from a pole

 

He said works a treat

 

Sock? Was at other end of stip so no pic taken

 

Mind boggles how you can improvise on the bush

 

Phil

 

 

[pudestcon]

PudGreat topic.

A bit of info that is not relevant to your original post but interesting

 

I flew a G A pilot to his station strip during a air show last year

 

He had just graded a strip through Salt bush

 

I was the first plane to land on it

 

He described the conditions spot on

 

And he then added that the wind sock was home made using a SCREEN DOOR hanging from a pole

 

He said works a treat

 

Sock? Was at other end of stip so no pic taken

 

Mind boggles how you can improvise on the bush

 

Phil

Hehehe Sometimes you have to think outside the square.

 

I have an old T500 fuselage shroud (you can see the one on my T500 in my avatar) I thought might be able to be modified for a windsock.

 

Pud

 

 

[Guernsey]

No flies on you Pud.

 

Alan.

 

 

[pudestcon]

No flies on you Pud.Alan.

No, but you can see where they have been!!

Pud

 

 

[farri]

"Folllowing rivers & creeks" Not relevant to instructing students in areas that are known to the instructor but for anyone thinking about doing same for fun - be aware of power lines. FrankM

Hi Frank M, You are absolutely correct and I didn`t bother to point that out because I was simply stating what I did, and not what others should do!

 

The Russell river is in what used to be my training area and I was flying long before I started instructing and so I knew the area ( still do and I say that because things can change ) like the back of my hand but not everyone else did, or does, so to help make the point, I will tell a story about power lines crossing rivers.( I love telling true stories).

 

The Mulgrave and russell rivers meet at a point about one nm south east of my strip! (I say about, because I`ve never bothered to measure the distance ). They then flow into one and flow out to the ocean... Up the Russell river, about 750 mts from where the two rivers meet, there is a single power line that crosses the river,to supply power to the Russell Heads community.

 

This particular day I was instructing and doing circuits when I saw a helicopter fly over to the area of the power line, in the Russell river... I didn`t think nuch about it other than to note it`s position and be aware that the chopper was there... Helicopters flew over fairly regularly (and still do) but when it was still hovering there almost a 1/2 hour later it got the better of me so I flew over close enough to see what was going on.

 

As part of my property fronts the Mulgrave river and was/ is the closest point of accissable land to the powerline, I became involved, when a couple of days later the pilot and owner of the aircraft came to me asking for permission to use my property to retreive the aircraft.

 

The aircraft was on floats, VH registered and had four people on board...The pilot had decided to land on the river but wasn`t aware of the power line and only saw it at the last second...The floats caught the powe line and the aircraft went into the river nose first...Fortunately for the people on board, it was low tide so the water wasn`t as deep as it would have been at high tide... More fortunately was the fact that one door could be opened so everyone could get out because the other one was jamed and couldn`t be opened...Had both doors been jamed, they would all have drowned.

 

I went down with SCUBA gear to help retrieve the aircraft.

 

Later on I introduced the pilot to the Drifter, he was impressed, did some flying with me and became an AUF member...I havn`t seen the guy for a while but the last time I did, he was an RAA member with two RAA registered aircraft and one VH registered...I see him fly over here every now and then.

 

Frank.

 

 

[eightyknots]

The aircraft was on floats, VH registered and had four people on board...The pilot had decided to land on the river but wasn`t aware of the power line and only saw it at the last second...The floats caught the powe line and the aircraft went into the river nose first...Fortunately for the people on board, it was low tide so the water wasn`t as deep as it would have been at high tide... More fortunately was the fact that one door could be opened so everyone could get out because the other one was jamed and couldn`t be opened...Had both doors been jamed, they would all have drowned.

I went down with SCUBA gear to help retrieve the aircraft.

 

Later on I introduced the pilot to the Drifter, he was impressed, did some flying with me and became an AUF member...I havn`t seen the guy for a while but the last time I did, he was an RAA member with two RAA registered aircraft and one VH registered...I see him fly over here every now and then.

 

Frank.

An interesting story that again highlights the danger of wirestrike. Those people were very fortunate to get out unhurt.

 

 

[farri]

An interesting story that again highlights the danger of wirestrike. Those people were very fortunate to get out unhurt.

Absolutely! Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. Because it was low tide and the AC landed in the shallowest part of the river, at that point! the door that could be opened was just under the surface of the water.

 

The pilot told me that the impact in the river wasn`t very hard at all and probably why no one was badly injured.. Had it been full tide,the outcome could have been completely different.

 

I know of another case of an aircraft going into a river. This one was a Drifter and it went into the Tully River, not far from the mouth and the ocean.

 

Happened years ago but it could happen to someone else...At times, this guy would fly his Drifter, on wheels, from the beach and at other times he would put it on floats, trailer it down to the boat ramp and launch it.

 

This particular day, he had it on wheels, went for a fly and got almost back when he ran out of fuel and the engine stoped. He had nowhere to go but into the river. Again, fortunately! It was low tide and he was able to put it down in the shallowest part of the river without any damage to himself or the aircraft...It wasn`t far to walk through the mangrovs so he simply went home, got his boat and went and retrieved the aircraft.... That pilot has long been deceased from a heart attack.

 

I flew that aircraft on floats and it was later purchased ( without the floats ) by one of my students.

 

Frank.