Economy... or, at what point....?

[Wayne T Mathews]

When I did the sums many years ago, I came to the conclusion that I'd have to fly 300+ hours per year to justify owning an aircraft. Any thing under that and financially, it was better to hire. And then a friend told me, "If you use your head, you'll never buy an aircraft. So use your heart instead." That worked for me...

 

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

I have for years argued the merits of NOT owning an aircraft and here I sit at 58 years of age having learnt to fly at age 16 and finally said bugger it and brought one, an historic one mind you, but cheap to buy and low cost to own, I have private land to keep it on which will also help in due course.

Who wants to be old, boring, mediocre and sensible at the end of their life? I don't mind the old or the sensible, but I wont stand for boring and mediocre. LOL

Now this doesn't happen often... You brought one did you David? Where'd you bring it from??... Don't ya just love tipoes???

 

 

[pudestcon]

Now this doesn't happen often... You brought one did you David? Where'd you bring it from??... Don't ya just love tipoes???

Yep:roflmao:

Pu

 

 

[kgwilson]

I didn't even think about justifying it. I just wanted to build and fly my own aircraft. I looked around for 5 years, flew a number & then bit the bullet. I am nearly 10 months into the build & loving every second.

 

I wanted a strong, fast, sports, low wing aircraft & I know that is not everyones cup of tea. By the time I get to fly it I'll be about $75,000.00 worse off but the way I see it, there is no point being the richest person in the cemetery. Retirement to me, is supposed to be about doing the things you always wanted to do but didn't have the time, money or freedom to do earlier in life.

 

When I can no longer fly I can then sell it and buy a mobility scooter.

 

 

[farri]

Talking about calculating the cost of owning " an aircraft ", compared to hiring, is like saying, " how long is a piece of string!" ...what type of aircraft and price range are we talking about?

 

A used WB Drifter in good condition, would cost anywhere between $16,000 to $20,000, and there are other used aircraft on the market for less than that, whereas, one of the latest, new, you beaut, with all the bells and whistles, aircraft, can be well over a $ 100,000.

 

There are so many variables that it`s difficult, if not impossible, to come to an accurate figure but to get anywhere near it, the purchase price of the aircraft is the place to start.

 

The cost of training is irrelevant because, whether owning or hiring, training needs to be done to be able to fly the aircraft.

 

Keep in mind also, that what was an aircraft only minutes or seconds ago, could now be just a piece of junk and without insurance cover??????

 

Frank.

 

Ps I`m not sure just what the problem is but I`ve had to edit this 4 times. The cursor is playing up.

 

 

[johnm]

Farri

 

get your key board - tip it upside down and bash it on the desk (not to hard as some keys tend to pop off) - that'll get all the crap out of the key board - you'd be suprised what lives in there .......................... might fix it ?

 

jm

 

 

[farri]

The other day, I was working on a fairly lengthy post, got almost to the end and everything locked up, it`s a wonder you all didn`t hear me cursing...Had to reset the computer and start again!

 

Thanks john! What I normally do, is brush between the keys with a clean paint brush.

 

Frank.

 

 

[sfGnome]

I'm glad David brought up the issue of boats, because they are the cause of my biggest concern about A/C ownership. How many boats do you see parked down the side of a house, going nowhere? Too many, I reckon. I used to live behind a bloke with a boat, and every weekend he'd turn the motor over to keep it in good nick, but in the years that we lived there, that boat never got near any water. $50k might seem like a good idea while we're all enthusiastic, but will it fade over time and leave you with a very expensive paperweight (and yes, you could sell, but have you noticed how many a/c are for sale each month in the RAA mag?).

 

Having said all that, I love building things, so the retirement plan definitely includes a little(?) bit of a/c construction. All I have to hope is that the money holds out that long.

 

 

[biggles]

The other day, I was working on a fairly lengthy post, got almost to the end and everything locked up, it`s a wonder you all didn`t hear me cursing...Had to reset the computer and start again!Thanks john! What I normally do, is brush between the keys with a clean paint brush.

 

Frank.

If you're having trouble with a PC , forget about getting an iPad Frank. They are really bad news for us 'oldies' !!!

 

 

Bob

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I thought you old guys used talk back radio?

 

 

[kgwilson]

What most of us realistic old guys use is 1 to 1 or even 1 to 2, 1 to 3, 2 to 3, or 3 to 3 & even more face to face yarns in a shed with multiple beers available. No problems with screens or technology failures & the problems of the world get resolved at approximately the same rate as the number of beers consumed until a point is reached whereby none of the problems or number of beers consumed can be remembered and the main problem becomes staying upright, finding the door and then trying to work out where you live.

 

 

[farri]

I`ve been sitting at this dumb computer ( Yeah, I reckon it`s the computer, cause it couldn`t be me) for over half an hour trying to do something that I reckon my youngest granddaughter could do in 2 minutes. You think I can get it the way I want. :gaah:I`ve had to give it away and come back here but if nothing else, I`m a stubborn bugger! I`ll get back to it....

 

Frank.

 

 

[eightyknots]

I did a quick price comparison and I figured that it is much cheaper to fly between any two airports in New Zealand than flying the equivalent aircraft yourself, no matter which airline you use. And... I don't have to make any radio calls.

 

(I still want to fulfill my dream of avoiding the above scenario and do this in my own home-built plane)

 

 

[old man emu]

I thought you old guys used talk back radio?

Nah!

 

We use flyback pigeons.

 

OME

 

 

[Zibi]

One other thing when considering buying vs hiring is something one of my friends used to bring up a lot when talking about his boat.

 

If you have your own, and especially if it's hangared at the airfield you have way more motivation to just go flying.

 

Whereas if you need to hire it, you not only have get the right weather, have free time, but you also need to make sure that the plane will be available and that's just another step that brings you to the too hard territory.

 

If you have an aircraft ready to go you can always pop in before or after work, or whenever you have some time, without any prior arrangements and fly for as long or as short as you need.

 

If you need to hire one, you need to know in advance, arrange the hire, specify how long you're going to fly, etc and then you just give up...

 

 

[Neil_S]

.....and it has been shown time and again that the way to keep Alzheimers at bay is to learn something new, keep your mind active, and meet new people/friends, so look on the purchase/building/flying of a plane as an intangible asset to stave off the onset of old (mental) age - sod the cost!

 

Neil

 

 

[eightyknots]

.....and it has been shown time and again that the way to keep Alzheimers at bay is to learn something new, keep your mind active, and meet new people/friends, so look on the purchase/building/flying of a plane as an intangible asset to stave off the onset of old (mental) age - sod the cost!Neil

I couldn't have said this better myself, Neil.

 

 

[Guernsey]

And fit an 'Auto Pilot' as it is a bit of a sod when you can't remember where you came from and where the hell you are going.

 

Sorry I can't sign off....can't remember my name.

 

 

[naremman]

Just doing a bit of math (I know, I should leave that to the professionals!) and it occurs to me...Aside from the 20+ hours required to get my RAA cert, at close to $200 a go (less for solo), it would be downright uneconomical for me to fly any more than a couple times a month, tops - not realistic if I want to keep gaining the experience that comes with more hours. And more endos, etc.

 

At what point, or is there such a thing, does it become apparent that it will be cheaper in the long run to purchase an aeroplane as opposed to hiring? I mean crikey, even at just 200 hours you'll have spent $40,000... more than enough to make a dent in a decent little plane.

 

So it seems your choices are to either a) remain a low-hour pilot, just barely maintaining the hours required to keep active, b) get the cert and solo, tick that off the bucket list, then find a cheaper hobby, or c) purchase a plane and keep yourself active in the air and the community.

 

So I guess its more a discussion point than a question (hey, it IS a forum), but I'd like to hear from everyone as to which path they have chosen/ended up on and why?

If you want a simple answer, the reality is that there is no simple answer. A calculator might not be your best friend in this instance. I have stated before that anybody embarking on an encounter with aviaition should empty their wallet, view it and become comfortable with this position.

 

Before locking yourself into a position it is probably sound to venture a distance down the track before making a decision that might be not all that easy to undo.

 

I am a part owner of a Cessna 172 that had a new owner come on board with the intention of learning to fly in his own aeroplane. Sound intent, but he tied up a sizeable amount of money for the purchase, was out about for a $110 a hour for an instructor and still had to kick in $60 an hour for fuel. From my observations anybody buying an aircraft to learn to fly in and finding a fianacial benefit in the process would be in the minority.

 

As for my own experience: I learnt to fly through an aero club, and purchsed a Victa Airtourer as I was concluding my training, for the then princely sum of $3500. I it was my intention of keep it for a few years and then selling it. I still own it 37 years later. Buying a quarter share of a Cessna 172 in 1981 gave me the four seat capability. Having access to both aircarft has been a good fit. A bit like having a Commodore and a MG in the same garage.

 

As for the benefits of hire. I have not owned a Tiger Moth, but have about 20 hours logged on a DH82. I have DHC1 time logged, but have yet to own a Chippie. I have aerobatic time in a Beagle Pup 100 and am decidely happy not to own one!! I have enjoyed my encounters with Jabs and Foxbat, but am unlikely to have either aircraft displace the two currently in my hangar.

 

I have been flying flying for 39 years and have yet to loose my love of flight. Pushing 2000 hours in the log book I am accutely aware that I probably would not be still flying today without aircraft ownership, and would certainly not have accumulated those hours without ready access to my own aircraft. I have to readily admit that some early decisions have been remarkably fortuitous to keep aircraft ownership within reasonable bounds. Living in the eastern Wheatbelt of WA the nearest aircraft for hire is 160 Kms away, which makes hire not such an easy option.

 

An extreme example was one individual who purchased a share in our C172 and over a fifteen year period logged two hours in it. Those two hours in effect cost him around $8,000 a hour!!

 

I recall an instance a few years ago when as as Vollie Ambulance Officer with St John Ambulance doing a RFDS transfer and two pilots having the the chance for a bit of a chat. The RFDS pilot stated that he paid for the first 200 hours of his flying career and since that point he was paid to fly. He considered I was a candidate for the funny farm for having paid for my then 1800 hours myself!!

 

 

[ayavner]

Well said!! So for sure, if i decide to buy a share or even the whole thing - i'd better be sure that I am going to use it, otherwise it is going to be unjustifiably expensive!

 

 

[farri]

So for sure, if i decide to buy a share or even the whole thing - i'd better be sure that I am going to use it, otherwise it is going to be unjustifiably expensive!

Unjustifiably expensive?.....Not if you can afford it...Some people own several.

 

Frank.

 

 

[ayavner]

Well that rules me out!