RA Aircraft, SAR and Flight Plans

[redozbris]

As normal I was thinking about upcomming events and flight I would like to take, and currently I am simply filling out a flight note, pegging it to the board at the flight school, notifing one or two people in charge where I am off two, and letting the hanger hand know that the note is there.

 

Its not that dont trust or believe that if the worst was to happen, I wouldnt be thought of at the right time, but its just in case.

 

Now.. Never actually asked the question, and its always the way, the day after your on site, it pops into your head, I was wondering if anyone had a simple way of putting in a simple flight plan OR a SAR time with the Powers that Be, and when getting to the destination, you give them a call and cancel it.

 

My meager understanding of Flight Plans are you need to check in Every 30 minutes, update them where you are etc.

 

Can anyone share any experiences, or what they do when they go on trips, just heading to yeppoon on friday, and just me being over cautious...

 

I know its a question and more training for my instructors, but wont see them before the end of the week, and any helps always appreciated..

 

Thanks!

 

red..

 

 

[jetjr]

ring flight briefing, ask for a SARTIME, they ask basic flight plan details inc your mobile number and your anticipated SARTIME. Work out the time required before you ring and then call back to CENSAR (different number) and they will confirm your id and SARTIME and cancel for you.

 

I lodge one every cross country flight.

 

A SARWATCH is where you call in every 30minutes

 

A warning is they WILL lauch SAR if you dont cal them back, dont forget or get caught out of range or with a flat phone.

 

JR

 

 

[frank marriott]

Full SAR i.e. what you are referring to is no longer available post Dick Smith refroms unless you file an IFR flight plan. You can submit a SARTIME but don't rely on it - I know of cases locally where when a pilot has rang to cancel a SAR they have been told that no SAR was being held for them.

 

If flying VFR then the best you can do is leave a SAR time with a friend and ring them when you arrive.

 

The new system only allows full SAR for IFR and it comes at a cost per movement.

 

Even flying VFR CHTR same rules - the case of Government reducing costs? The fact that the costs are higher now for less service is a political arguement not a matter of fact.

 

If you read the accidents reports from MacArthur Job [i think is his name] you will see how safety was improved by full SAR reporting but the powers that be over a period of time have destroyed that and VFR now has the same services as the 1930s.

 

FrankM

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Depending on where you are going and if you have a transponder, call up centre and ask for VFR flight following. They will give you traffic and keep an eye on you (when workload permits). Otherwise lodge a Sartime and get a call out on area frequency, or 121.5 if you get into trouble.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Important issue you raise, Red... Although I carry a PLB on my belt there could always be situations where I can't activate it in the event of a prang.

 

The best safety item I carry is my iPhone with a tracking app. My wife can follow my trip in real time on any computer. If I have a brain explosion and decide to fly up some remote valley she at least knows where I was before I dropped below Telstra reception.

 

There are many such apps available; most seem to be aimed at tracking cheating partners in secret. My favourite is http://www.instamapper.com/fe

 

which drops a breadcrumb every 2 minutes. These markers show time, lat/long, alt, speed and heading. After a trip I use the resulting plot to analyse my flight. Instamapper only transmits while in the foreground, so it does not send locations while other apps are working.

 

I also use it on bike trips. While speeding along on the other side of the continent I can get a call telling me to slow down and stop being such a hoon.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Also I didn't mention if you are in SSR coverage squawk 7700 will give your position and an alert [obviously I am only referring to those aircraft transponder fitted] only in the case of an emergency obviously.

 

 

[jetjr]

Frank M said "You can submit a SARTIME but don't rely on it"

 

Its the best option we have. I understand this problem has been experienced by some however it beats the odds of a friend forgetting AND remembering what to do if you dont report in.

 

Ive had maybe 150 SARTIMES in last few years, only once was it lost in the system and that was one I ammended over radio enroute.

 

Best bet IMO. Sure beats relying on friends, Apple and Telstra coverage. Even Spot messengers arent considered totally reliable for remote OHS considerations as they rely on external (US) forwarding service and subscription.

 

 

[kaz3g]

?.. If you read the accidents reports from MacArthur Job [i think is his name] you will see how safety was improved by full SAR reporting but the powers that be over a period of time have destroyed that and VFR now has the same services as the 1930s.FrankM

Hi Frank

 

Mac Job has certainly written a great deal about safety issues and developments over many years. I noticed another article of his, on a Viscount crash being reproduced in Flight Safety a couple of months back.

 

Mac is now 86 years old and still has fine eyes and hands for flying... and his research on aviation safety is recognised across the world. But even he would probably agree that the little end of GA couldn't sustain the intensive supervision of the airways that existed when Flight Service was king. this is especially so now when we have so much more equipment available to us to make sure we go the right way to get to where we were heading.

 

There was a discussion recently on Flight Following and perhaps this is something you might want to search the list for as it seems more like what you are looking for.

 

Kaz

 

 

[frank marriott]

jetjr & kaz

 

Whatever one is more confortable with is fine. A few different options listed here for indiviuals to consider.

 

I find under the present options that leaving a SAR with family/friends works fine for me. I only submit a flight plan when my trip involves CTA otherwise I fly "no SAR, no details".

 

I perfer full SAR and always used when it was available but accept the changes and now carry my private SAR time.

 

It follows " in the way I see things" that if everyone started to use Flight Following is would overload and cease to be an option (when workload permits) is already in the conditions?

 

FrankM

 

 

[av8vfr]

Deleted - mod,

 

Appears to be advertising as member also has link in signature...

 

 

 

[Tomo]

You obviously need a transponder for flight following. We got flight following on my trip from Ayr on Monday to a property north of Clermont, Ctr wasn't busy so we thought we'd give them a call.

 

 

[Louis Moore]

Only had a quick scan over the thread so I'm sorry if I am hashing stuff already mentioned. I am a no sar, do details flyer all the way! Obviously leave a flight note with a responsible person on the ground (siblings for instance are most definitely not on the list!) and give them a call when I land, try to use someone at the destination aerodrome where I can so I can get weather updates if required!

 

When I am doing GA flying I even slip into Essendon, Mooroobin etc... without a plan, just call up at the entry and ask for clearance through, have not been denied yet. Only time I have been told to remain outside C/A is if I only wanted to transition through a zone.

 

As for flight flowing, we spent a few years in the states and I did a fair amount of flying around Michigan while we were there. Flight following was about the norm for any trip over about 20nm! If you wanted to have any hope of flying in a straight over a long trip it was really the only way. The controllers just treated you like a VMC, VFR version of an IFR aircraft even though you did not submit a plan, handing you over where required and giving all the subsequent frequencies if need be. It was not uncommon to even ask the controllers for vectors, distance and time to your destination at current speed, like a radio operated GPS! It saved from your track ending up looking like a massive slalom course due to weaving between the hundreds of tower zones at all the airports or from cranking the radio dial every 10 seconds and requesting another tower transition clearance!!!! Apart from that have not used flight following in australia yet, so no comment on it over here!

 

 

[Mazda]

RedOz get your flying school to show you how to lodge a plan through NAIPS, it isn't hard. You can do it over the phone, or as a last resort by radio but it does clog the frequency. You can put the NAIPS plan in online, but yes do remember to cancel your SAR.

 

However there is no need to lodge a plan when flying VFR, and that includes flying in Class D or C airspace, just call up with 'details' on approach. The controllers will tell you they want a plan because it is easier for them, but it is not required.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a Flight Note, it is legal and as long as it really is left with a 'responsible person' there is no problem with it. Just make sure the responsible person does act on it and knows what to do.

 

Flight following is a good thing but it isn't just a SAR service, they will give you known traffc, can assist with navigation and so on. It is on a workload permitting basis only, so it is free.

 

If you are worried there are systems like Spider Tracks which show where you are, or you could even send an SMS to your responsible person with an update of your position (remember to fly the aeroplane first though, and keep looking out).

 

Do take water. If you do have to put down, you won't last long without water, or if all goes well flying can be thirsty work, airports can be hot, and taxis can take forever. Always take a jacket, no matter what the weather, even for a day trip. The wx might close in, you might get stuck waiting in a terminal, aero club or charming country motel, and it can get cold at night.

 

Good grief Frank, SARTIME or no SAR flights are not new, the full SAR reporting for VFR was pre-AMATS in 1991! RedOz you would not like that system, you had to nominate locations plus or minus 2 minutes like you need to do for IFR, and the only reason it existed in the first place is that way back then we had quadrantal levels not hemispherical levels, which meant VFR and IFR were cruising at the same altitude. That is why VFR needed the same reporting as IFR.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Mazda

 

I accept the facts

 

My reply was to an inquiry from red not to suggest how anyone who already knows the system should conduct their flying

 

No arguement - my reply to red was when I replied there was no answer to the question posed - I thought it might be helpful to answer the questions posed

 

If at the time others had replied I would not have put forward the facts as I see them.

 

Yes I have been flying since 1979 I and I refer to things that "were" and current studemts now don't need to know.

 

Don't take my comment as a problem but I see it as a downgrade from what we had then and then, all based at a cost saving BUT costs have gone up not down.

 

Please forget my comments as I am content with the current situation and have no intention of debating this issues.

 

I can see that I should wait for 24 hours berfore I reply to a question so as not to get the actual query off track.

 

Happy and safe flying to everyone

 

FrankM

 

 

[kaz3g]

Only had a quick scan over the thread so I'm sorry if I am hashing stuff already mentioned. I am a no sar, do details flyer all the way! Obviously leave a flight note with a responsible person on the ground (siblings for instance are most definitely not on the list!) and give them a call when I land, try to use someone at the destination aerodrome where I can so I can get weather updates if required!When I am doing GA flying I even slip into Essendon, Mooroobin etc... without a plan, just call up at the entry and ask for clearance through, have not been denied yet. Only time I have been told to remain outside C/A is if I only wanted to transition through a zone....!

Hi Louis

 

Are you going to the Auster fly-in at the end of the month?

 

Kaz

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

However there is no need to lodge a plan when flying VFR, and that includes flying in Class D or C airspace, just call up with 'details' on approach. The controllers will tell you they want a plan because it is easier for them, but it is not required.

If it were me I would put in a plan, if it makes easier for ATC, why not put in a plan? Spending an extra five minutes on the grond is easier (not to mention cheaper) than spending five minutes orbiting waiting for a clearance...