Airborne SST incident?

[Bluey]

Just opened my copy of sports pilot today and read about an incident involving an Airborne SST having a very hard landing resulting in the instructor and student on their BFR being seriously injured. Anyone know anything about this? I'm not sure how old the incident is but it is in this months issue. If anyone has any further information about this we would like to hear about it as we fear we may know the persons involved.

 

Bluey.

 

 

[campslive]

Just opened my copy of sports pilot today and read about an incident involving an Airborne SST having a very hard landing resulting in the instructor and student on their BFR being seriously injured. Anyone know anything about this? I'm not sure how old the incident is but it is in this months issue. If anyone has any further information about this we would like to hear about it as we fear we may know the persons involved.Bluey.

i also read the same article,

and am worried at the amount of older xt912 trikes on the market most with sst wings fitted????

 

is there something we do not know about them?

 

rumour has it airborne is about to release a new upgraded sst wing?

 

i dont know what other people think but it does not look good from a buyers stance i think i will start looking for streak 3 xt912

 

 

[Tex]

From talking with some very experienced trike pilots they are saying a few people finding the SST pretty slippery, they are detuning to make it a 'feel more comfortable', which defeats the purpose of the strut brace. However I do not think there is any relationship with that and second sales at all... you don't need to sell the base AND the wing together after all.

 

Further, Airborne are continuously developing, upgrading and assessing their wings. That is the beauty of the flex wing, they may have just changed the cut of a few panels, different hardware set up, new sail making technique (rim and fill), different camber control systems... ALL sorts of tweaks and tricks to make a better wing. just look at how many wings they have already... through out the range they sell and historically.

 

 

[Bluey]

I fly both the SST and the Streak III and I have to say I like both. I would have to admit I probably prefer the extra stability of the SST even though it is probably a little more challenging to fly. I have number 18, an earlier iteration of the wing and so it has a slight yaw to the left on take off if you don't get it off the ground at the right speed. Overall, it is very good. I have now done nearly 100 hours in it and am comfortable with it. I'm no sure about where the link between this apparent accident and the SST wing has come about. I am simply questioning the occurence of this accident. I am lost as to who it involved as not even airborne are aware of it. At this point I suspect and hope that the details of the accident have been incorrectly reported by RAAUS.

 

Bluey

 

 

[Bluey]

By the way, the streak III is for sale. See the trike or classifieds section for more details if you are interested.

 

Bluey

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

i also read the same article,and am worried at the amount of older xt912 trikes on the market most with sst wings fitted????

is there something we do not know about them?

They fly well. Some people upgrade their wing from a S3 to an SST. I have considered doing so too, but am not in a rush to shell out that much cash. I also fly school trikes with SST, and while they do handle differently, there is no inherent issue. Pilots who haven't flown an SST should do a check flight with an instructor. My log book is signed off for both.

 

rumour has it airborne is about to release a new upgraded sst wing?

i dont know what other people think but it does not look good from a buyers stance i think i will start looking for streak 3 xt912

Not an upgraded SST, but a new wing model. It has only recently gained it's certification. I hope to get to fly one in the near future.

In relation to the description of the subject accident, and from my reading of the limited description in the magazine, I think that you could always expect a poor outcome from stalling any wing below tree-top height, which is what I surmise occurred. Although the description says nil turbulence, trikes don't just tip towards trees by themselves, so I suspect mechanical turbulence and high AOA are the cause, coupled with an inappropriate control response.

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Any hints about what the new wing will be? A strutted Cruze wing perhaps? Will Airborne be showing it at Natfly this week?

 

 

[Bluey]

Going back to the incident in question, does anyone know where it occurred?

 

Bluey.

 

 

[alf jessup]

i also read the same article,and am worried at the amount of older xt912 trikes on the market most with sst wings fitted????

is there something we do not know about them?

 

rumour has it airborne is about to release a new upgraded sst wing?

 

i dont know what other people think but it does not look good from a buyers stance i think i will start looking for streak 3 xt912

Campslive,

 

There is nothing wrong with the SST wing on the 912 as David says, and yes there are a few for sale as you say, many people have various reasons for offloading thier trikes.

 

I will be in the future offloading mine also but it will come with the SST wing and the original St3 wing as I am looking to purchase in the near future a 3 axis machine as I have also a RAA 3 axis licence and I wish to travel further afield and in a bit more comfort and be able to fly in different weather.

 

I still believe there is no better flying than in a trike on a good day, I absolutely love it and have done 730+hrs in trikes, just things and priorities change in people and I will be another going over to the dark side as I can't have both.

 

I don't think it does effect anything with so many for sale on the market, I actually think it's a buyers market with so many to choose from, buyers may very well pick up a bargin or 2 actually.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[Bluey]

Yes, it's definitely a buyers market. Very few 4 stroke trikes I know are selling for what they're worth at the moment. This has been going on since the gfc. Airborne for instance have only sold 4 xt912's in the past 12 months or so. They say they are selling lots of 2 strokes and single seaters. If you insist on getting a good price for your trike you are waiting a very long time.

 

Bluey.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

... Airborne for instance have only sold 4 xt912's in the past 12 months or so. ....

I find that to be unbelievable. Four new XT912 aircraft have been bought in that timeframe by people at Yarrawonga alone.

 

 

[aaron roberts]

I know of at lest 2 in Newcastle.

 

 

[Bluey]

That's interesting! My information comes direct from airbornes mouth (Shane). I have seen one delivered at Ywol in the last 12 months myself. Why are they saying business is realty slow at the moment? I'm also hearing the same from a few instructors I've spoken to. This leads me to wonder why has the arse fallen out of the second hand four stroke market all of a sudden? Is it the proliferation of four strokes that is making it a buyers market or is it the global economy at the moment?

 

Bluey.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...or maybe in some cases, the owner has crashed it or done a very heavy landing and wants to off-load it onto someone who hasn't the required knowledge to assess condition or who overlooks things, like lack of logbooks, by being fixated on "a bargain". As with many other things in life, beware the offer that is too good to be true!

 

 

[Bluey]

There might be a few that have been damaged but quite frankly provided they have been professionally repaired it shouldn't be an issue. The only ones I'd be concerned about are the ones that have been for a swim. From a very comprehensive look at what is being offered around at the moment, quite a few if not all second hand trikes being offered for sale at the moment are under valued. In many cases sellers seem willing to accept a 10 to 15 thousand dollar loss to move the trikes to new owners. This attitude is making it very difficult if not impossible for sellers who wish to get a fair price for their trikes. It is now the case that second hand 912's do not hold value at all well. This was not the case a few years ago and airborne agree.

 

Bluey.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Its where our economy is right now. The guys buying toys like trikes are the wrong side of 50 and the economy is looking a bit unsteady. No one wants to end up having to sell the toys in a firesale if they loose their jobs. You can also pickup a few bargains from the US, which is something most of us have never had the option to do before.

 

 

[Zibi]

From a very comprehensive look at what is being offered around at the moment, quite a few if not all second hand trikes being offered for sale at the moment are under valued. In many cases sellers seem willing to accept a 10 to 15 thousand dollar loss to move the trikes to new owners. This attitude is making it very difficult if not impossible for sellers who wish to get a fair price for their trikes. It is now the case that second hand 912's do not hold value at all well. This was not the case a few years ago and airborne agree.Bluey.

Bluey,

 

it all depends from which side of the fence you're looking at this problem.

 

I'm currently on the opposite side, where I'm looking for a trike to buy. I'm even considering a XT-912, and to me it looks like there are far less trikes for sale than you make it to be.

 

All I can see are either trikes with reasonable (say under 200) hours that are listed for pretty much the price of a new one ($55 -60k) or ones like yours with 600 hours around $40k.

 

Considering how essential and critical proper maintenance is on any aircraft I find it hard to justify buying one that I have no idea how it was maintained (the log books can help, but there's a lot of planes with just a sketchy log books) just to safe a couple grand.

 

It's also a hard choice between a 912 with 400-600 hours, which most likely is a ex school plane with tons of take-offs and landings (a lot of which would be less than perfect, considering a how some of my landings look like - I'm still learning) and again uncertain maintenance record over a new 582.

 

So to finish my rant - I wouldn't say those trikes are undervalued by that much, especially when you compare them to a used car, when you lose 10-20% the moment you leave the dealer.

 

 

[Bluey]

I'm not saying there are heaps out there for sale at the moment. What I am saying is that there are more than 1 or 2 that are selling too cheaply. I know of at least 2 sst in southern nsw with less than 300 hrs on them selling for under $44000. I know of three more trikes in NSW, SA and QL all under 400 hrs with asking prices under $35000. I've been in the triking game for a few years and I can't recall ever seeing the market so depressed. Other people I've spoken to recently who have been doing this much longer than me are saying the same things too.

 

Bluey.

 

 

[Bluey]

The choice between buying a new 582 with a 300 hour tbo and an engine that will stop without warning is not the same as buying a 912 with 500 or 600 hours or even more that has been properly looked after with a tbo of 1500 or 2000 hrs. Especially when many documented cases exist of 912's doing more than 3000 hrs without a problem.

 

Bluey

 

 

[alf jessup]

The choice between buying a new 582 with a 300 hour tbo and an engine that will stop without warning is not the same as buying a 912 with 500 or 600 hours or even more that has been properly looked after with a tbo of 1500 or 2000 hrs. Especially when many documented cases exist of 912's doing more than 3000 hrs without a problem.Bluey

Yeah i'm with you Bluey on what you say,

 

When I bought my trike it was the only one for sale, it had 287hrs on the tach and was Airbornes demonstrater and actually the first 912 built 001 on the base and 001 on the St3 wing, my old girl did all the testing for certification for casa, it now has 830hrs on it and has never once gave me an ounce of trouble.

 

Mind you I spare no expense on it either, I fitted a a BRS chute to it a few years back as I had a real close call with 4 ibisis coming out of a turn and that was the only reason i got the chute, i had flown 300hrs in it before that.

 

I upgraded the mast for the SST wing 18 months ago but still have 001 packed in the shed, I can't understand why people are selling them so cheap, I will be asking 30g firm for mine with the 2 wings and chute and the extras i have for it, Ive had a great run out of it and as you say they go on for ever, I have all my maintenance logged since I have owned it.

 

I don't really believe people would bingle them and do shoddy repairs and offload them.

 

Like I said earlier people have reasons for selling them and as in my earlier post you know mine.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...I don't really believe people would bingle them and do shoddy repairs and offload them.

I've seen four, bought for below market value that the buyer had no idea there was an issue:-

 

• two had bent base bars.
   
   
  
• one had a bent mast... not apparent until the owner upgraded to SST and the old mast was removed and put on the concrete floor.
   
   
  
• one more recent (eBay purchase) at a bargain price, has cost the owner around $8K to get it to a point where it will pass muster to have a condition report done.
   
   
  

 

 

All these cases were people who bought before getting a professional condition report done, first.

 

 

[skeptic36]

I upgraded the mast for the SST wing 18 months ago but still have 001 packed in the shed, I can't understand why people are selling them so cheap, I will be asking 30g firm for mine with the 2 wings and chute and the extras i have for it

Cheers

 

Alf

And that my friends is the best value for money trike you will see for a while. It is immaculate.

Regards Bill

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I've seen four, bought for below market value that the buyer had no idea there was an issue:-<snipped>

All these cases were people who bought before getting a professional condition report done, first.

I have to agree - unfortunately this an all too common experience.

 

buying a new 582 with a 300 hour tbo and an engine that will stop without warning

Sorry but I have to disagree with this. It's incredibly rare for a 582 (especially in a trike) to stop without contributory factors of operator neglect or mismanagement.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Bluey]

I've seen at least one 582 experience a seizure on take off after 430 hrs of faultless service. There were no contributing factors that you could attribute to operator error. I'm not saying that two strokes are all going to stop, I'm saying they are more likely to than there four stroke counterpart. Anyhow reliability is just one reason to go the four stroke. What about the fuel economy? Compared to the range you get from a four stroke, it is chalk and cheese.

 

We've got a 582xtc in the hangar and when it comes out with the four strokes it not only can't keep up it just doesn't have the legs to go to the same locations and this is flying solo. Stick a passenger on the back and 60 odd litres of fuel and two stroke oil is gone in about 3.5 hours at around an indicated speed of 50knots and about 16litres an hour.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a great trike but for around 40k a good well maintained four stroke with some hours on it is always going to be a better prospect in my opinion.

 

Bluey.

 

Bluey

 

 

[alf jessup]

I've seen four, bought for below market value that the buyer had no idea there was an issue:-

• two had bent base bars.
   
   
  
• one had a bent mast... not apparent until the owner upgraded to SST and the old mast was removed and put on the concrete floor.
   
   
  
• one more recent (eBay purchase) at a bargain price, has cost the owner around $8K to get it to a point where it will pass muster to have a condition report done.
   
   
  

 

 

All these cases were people who bought before getting a professional condition report done, first.

Well David,

 

That is not a good thing then, my conscious wouldn't allow me to do that, I think that is very poor of people to do something like that but i guess we are all different in many ways.

 

I personally could not do it, not now ,not ever.

 

Cheers

 

Alf