INCIDENT AT TEMORA

[bluey the fly]

A ragwing altralight had engine failure this morning at takeoff,time was 8.45 reached about 300ft when all went quiet, pilot done a great job to manage to turn back but the plane suffered with damage to front wheel and presume engine cowling.

 

 

[Admin]

Any idea what type of aircraft?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Culture Iggy, plenty of people promote it, he pulled it off, but I think about three died in the last few months.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Turn back at 300ft are you kidding me?!

Depends on the aircraft, the pilot and the environment at the time.

I heard of someone else recently, performing a successful turn-back from around 500' and on another occasion quite some time back I watched someone do it successfully for practise. I've also read and watched a video of turnback experiments, so I know what has to be done. There is a high risk of stall-spin if you don't get it right.

 

None of this would currently persuade me to try it though, unless the straight ahead landscape was more dangerous.

 

 

[Millie]

The Aircraft was a 582 Bantam

 

 

[captbigwings]

A Bantam suffered an engine failure on RWY 23 Sunday morning, turned back and landed in the Aerochute area, west of RWY 36. I watched it all. Some other interesing things I saw over Natfly weekend, a GA tail tragger doing run ups near camping area, blew someones tent rolly polly down the camp ground. Someone took off with a wooden control lock still attached, luckily fell off and found on runway. Watch 2 aircraft takeoff on RWY 36, dispite a good tail wind/ crosswind, first 1 departed ok, but 2nd one almost became a statistic. He rotated, weather cocked, bounced, rotated, weather cocked bounced all the way down the strip, finally got airborne then dropped right wing doing a knife edge impersonation before levelling off, I thought he was gone, it was scary. I thought I saw an amphibian go down, but was relieved to find out he was doing a touch and go on lake north of the field. An interesting weekend to say the least, now dont get me going about the Air Museum.

 

 

[winsor68]

I witnessed the Bantam engine failure just before we departed for home... it really was a textbook perfect recovery. If only more aviators had just an ounce of the flying ability of the gentlemen flying that aircraft Ra-Aus would not be in the dire mess it is now.

 

My opinion but seriously... don't put shit on this pilot. We owe the existence of our organization to the pilot of that aircraft and his co-owners and friends.

 

There was NOTHING marginal or scary... It was a very calm and professional manouver by a calm and professional pilot.

 

 

[captbigwings]

I agree winsor, it was well executed. How was the trip home? Thanks for the tent, the young bloke has taken ownership, he loves it. Cheers Steve

 

 

[winsor68]

I agree winsor, it was well executed. How was the trip home? Thanks for the tent, the young bloke has taken ownership, he loves it. Cheers Steve

Hi Capbigwings... Really good to put a Forum name to a face. Keep at it mate... Hopefully next time you will be camping under the wing.

 

 

[Guest pookemon]

Someone took off with a wooden control lock still attached, luckily fell off and found on runway. Watch 2 aircraft takeoff on RWY 36, dispite a good tail wind/ crosswind, first 1 departed ok, but 2nd one almost became a statistic. He rotated, weather cocked, bounced, rotated, weather cocked bounced all the way down the strip, finally got airborne then dropped right wing doing a knife edge impersonation before levelling off, I thought he was gone, it was scary.

Amazing that people can be so stupid. What's the first thing they teach you about taking off? Into the wind... And, of course, before that they've taught you how to do your daily inspection and pre-flights.

 

The RAA (assuming they were both RAA) should have spotters at Natfly for things like that and should write a letter to these people informing them that they need to have a check flight.

 

 

[winsor68]

The worst incident I witnessed was the arrival of a GA twin and his buddies in a single... I was manning the marshalling post watching all our good old Ra-Aus aviators arriving in an orderly fashion when out of the blue the GA twin is doing a forced go around out of the blue... those guys just plowed straight in without any professional proper joining procedures as befits a flyin... I jumped on the bike and marshalled them to parking and without pushing it too much asked them what the hell that was all about... there opinion was that some ultralight had cut them off on their straight in final approach. Old buggers probably on their last legs without a clue.

 

 

[farri]

there opinion was that some ultralight had cut them off on their straight in final approach.

There it is again! Must be someone elses fault, because it couldn`t be mine!

 

Frank.

 

 

[kaz3g]

The worst incident I witnessed was the arrival of a GA twin and his buddies in a single... I was manning the marshalling post watching all our good old Ra-Aus aviators arriving in an orderly fashion when out of the blue the GA twin is doing a forced go around out of the blue... those guys just plowed straight in without any professional proper joining procedures as befits a flyin... I jumped on the bike and marshalled them to parking and without pushing it too much asked them what the hell that was all about... there opinion was that some ultralight had cut them off on their straight in final approach. Old buggers probably on their last legs without a clue.

Hard to understand anyone doing a straight in approach on such a busy day.

 

Kaz

 

 

[turboplanner]

Some of them fly once a year Kaz, don't bother with recency, and in some cases don't even bother with maps. I've had one come upwind on the downwind leg, one lost out west of Parkes, trying to recognise roads under instruction, and one who set out from Bankstown for Bathurst on a sunny afternoon being ordered to land at Narrandera and make a phone call for further instructions which were not going to be about calling in for a cup of tea.

 

 

[Teckair]

A Bantam suffered an engine failure on RWY 23 Sunday morning, turned back and landed in the Aerochute area, west of RWY 36. I watched it all. Some other interesing things I saw over Natfly weekend, a GA tail tragger doing run ups near camping area, blew someones tent rolly polly down the camp ground. Someone took off with a wooden control lock still attached, luckily fell off and found on runway. Watch 2 aircraft takeoff on RWY 36, dispite a good tail wind/ crosswind, first 1 departed ok, but 2nd one almost became a statistic. He rotated, weather cocked, bounced, rotated, weather cocked bounced all the way down the strip, finally got airborne then dropped right wing doing a knife edge impersonation before levelling off, I thought he was gone, it was scary. I thought I saw an amphibian go down, but was relieved to find out he was doing a touch and go on lake north of the field. An interesting weekend to say the least, now dont get me going about the Air Museum.

For anyone who is new to flying, especially this style of aircraft turning back at 300ft on take off is a very bad idea which could easily kill you, no matter how many people thought it looked OK. My guess is the Bantam was probably higher than 300ft when the engine failed. An aircraft with the performance of a Bantam should have been able to land straight ahead on runway 23 which according to the ERSA is over 2,000 metres in length.

Richard.

 

 

[captbigwings]

I cant confirm at what height engine failure occurred, but suspect he may have been on cross wind leg, possible on 500 foot circuit, it certainly wasn't a low to the ground turn back. I agree with you comments about about turning back at low heights but think in this case it was done safely.

 

 

[Teckair]

I made those comments in case anybody was being mislead about turning back on take off type issues, because I felt the posts on this thread could be misleading.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Amazing that people can be so stupid. What's the first thing they teach you about taking off? Into the wind... And, of course, before that they've taught you how to do your daily inspection and pre-flights.The RAA (assuming they were both RAA) should have spotters at Natfly for things like that and should write a letter to these people informing them that they need to have a check flight.

Amazing that people can know enough about an incident from reading a forum post to call someone else an idiot.

 

I was that idiot.

 

Operationally, the decision to use 36 was not unreasonable.

 

The windsock was hanging completely limp, and there was no traffic in the circuit.

 

After I called my intention to enter 36 and line-up and roll from taxi Foxtrot, there was a joining 23 downwind call. I restated my intention to roll on 36 and that I would be out of his way in heaps of time, and he said he had no problem with that. From my monitoring of the radio and wind, there seemed to be no need to continue to use 23.

 

The runway choice was not the problem. The pax is a very experienced pilot and he agreed with the choice.

 

A mistake in weight and balance was the real issue.

 

I packed for just me in the plane going there. Then a friend had to leave his Sapphire there because of a fuel leak, so I offered him a lift to Goulburn.

 

I recalculated the W&B, packed the tent in the forward storage, and put my 7.5Kg flight bag on the parcel shelf behind us.

 

It normally rides on the pax seat.

 

The AUW was still way below maximum. My plane only weighs 270Kg empty and is good to 600Kg - 544Kg legally of course. It was only 520Kg.

 

I got it wrong.

 

On rolling, we reached about 40 knots and the nosewheel came up. That normally means it's ready to fly, so I let it.

 

It sank to the mains again. I didn't want to let the nosewheel bang down after it, so held it there. It seemed in the heat of the moment a better option to continue under power, so I did.

 

As seen, I then had an interesting time trying to keep it flying and straight. I had to force the nose down to get speed up, and it constantly wanted to porpoise. The "knife edge" was simply having to bank to regain the centreline. I believe it was still balanced (or I wouldn't be here anymore). Once I got the speed up we climbed out OK, but still porpoising.

 

PRoC was achieved before the end of the runway.

 

Once a safe height was reached, I got the pax to move the flight bag to his knees and the plane completely changed its attitude.

 

I've never made that mistake before, and I'll never make it again.

 

I've weighed everything again and I'll be discussing the result with the manufacturer to check my figures.

 

I've discussed it with the Ops Manager and I'll be filling in an incident report.

 

The pax offered to pay for the flight. I told him to use it to buy new underwear.

 

I've put this here not just to address the tendency to dismiss other pilots as idiots on fora without knowing the facts, but as a reminder of the importance of keeping the CofG within limits.

 

I got away with it - just.

 

Others have been killed by it.

 

 

[captbigwings]

Glad to hear it from the horses mouth slarti,this was my observation, not pointing any fingers. I wasn't going to mention names anyway. It certainly was spectacular from where I saw, I can only imagine what it was like for you guys. It takes courage to admit your errors and in an open forum especially and for that I have the deepest respect for. Steve

 

 

[68volksy]

It's just so damn easy to stuff up in this world of flying. Unfortunately those stuff-ups can tend to hurt a bit more than other forms of recreation. The stuff-ups can be made by so many people other than us who we have little control over. Other pilots, aircraft maintainers and airfield maintainers being the main ones. You really can never be too careful if you value your own safety and that of your passengers. Even then its nothing more than a momentary lapse or missing the most minor of things that brings it all undone.

 

It's a damn serious sport. We need to look after each other.

 

 

[Admin]

That's what we are trying darn hard to do on this site Volksy...you are so right in what you say

 

 

[Guest pookemon]

Amazing that people can know enough about an incident from reading a forum post to call someone else an idiot.I was that idiot.

No - apparently you weren't. It was reported - by an "eye-witness" that the take off was "dispite (sic) a good tail wind/ crosswind".

 

It turns out that you didn't make that stupid mistake. And making that mistake would be stupid - just like leaving the control locks on (though perhaps that wasn't the case too - maybe it was "left on the roof of the car with the shopping). Like I said - the RAA should keep an eye out for things like this (and Natfly is a good venue to do so) and they should ask for a please explain from anyone that needs to be reminded of rules or standard practises (like the GA guys that were mentioned earlier).

 

If people do make stupid mistakes like taking off down wind - I'll tell them it's stupid - because it might kill someone. Surviving a stupid mistake does not make it "smarter". Kudos to you for being "pro active" and reporting an incident - maybe that'll result in a Safety Notice for your type to clarify weight and balance.

 

 

[captbigwings]

I must get my eyes checked then, they obviously aren't as good as yours p :private eyes:kemon.

 

 

[PapaFox]

One thing we have noticed in having 4 wind socks @ YTEM is that you can get 4 different wind indications. The yellow one down near the threshold of 36 is generally the most unreliable. Curiously though, that is the one that is closest to the Wx station

 

 

[Powerin]

their opinion was that some ultralight had cut them off on their straight in final approach.

Cut them off? The last time I looked at the rules aircraft on a straight in approach must give way to aircraft already established in the circuit.