Natfly 2012 Dissection

[Bubbleboy]

Now NATFLY 2012 is over, I thought those who attended may like to share their high and low points of the event.

 

As has been discussed, attendance by exhibitors and people alike was well down on previous years. Last year the weather was not great so that can be understood. Out of the 3 I have attended at Temora, the first was by far the best attended.

 

I camped at the airfield and there were plenty of empty camp sites. I didnt experience a wait at the showers at all which was unusual compared to previous years.

 

The food court was fabulous. There was a great selection and I need to get the recipe for that Beef and Guinness stew! It was great. There were meals available at night so there was no need to leave the airport the whole time.

 

It appeared a lot more organised with things running smoother than last year.

 

Temora is a fabulous venue and it will be there for the next 3 years. We were given a brief insight into what the Temora shire has spent to accommodate NATFLY and bend over backwards to do what they can for us. This needs supporting.

 

I was a little disappointed with the forums. I remember the first year the Museum engineers put on a fantastic presentation on aircraft cables. They covered how to make them and showed you how to use the swaging tool. Things to look for when doing inspections etc. It wasnt a crowd hands on thing but there was practical demonstrations which were good.

 

I would like to see forums on things like wiring your aircraft including demonstrations on crimping etc. There are a multitude of practical skills I would love to learn like changing an aircraft tyre, actually shown how to balance a prop, how to correctly plumb instruments and is why I attend NATFLY but im not getting it. There are a lot of experienced people there but the information is not being shared around. I want to support the event and love the social side catching up with everyone but its a $800 trip away for us.

 

For me this year, it was like attending the Sydney Motor Show. It was full of expensive machines from $80 000 onwards that I will never afford in the foreseeable future. This year was supposed to be about the rag and tube! Apart from the Holbrook display like every year, I saw a Drifter or two in the parking areas and very little else!

 

Im a builder and have a passion for that side of things. Maybe I am the minority and just have to suck it up but I thought it would be nice to hear what others thought of this years event?

 

Scotty

 

 

[Guest davehw]

Hi Scotty,

 

yes, I was there for the full Temora event, and surprised numbers in all areas were down. This was being advertised by raa as a 95.10 event.

 

Where were they? It was also going to be an RV aircraft gathering on Friday. There may have been about 15 to 20 in total.

 

As mentioned on another thread, prior knowledge of casa ramp checks at arrival, may have affected numbers of visiting aircraft.

 

Flying conditions were good generally. Dave.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Hey Scotty the 'hands on' and technical stuff would be more SAAA territory, you might get on better at Ausfly Narromine.

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Hey Scotty the 'hands on' and technical stuff would be more SAAA territory, you might get on better at Ausfly Narromine.

Thank you for that GG. I would have thought there were other RAA builders or aircraft owners who would like the knowledge too. I will check that one out.

Scotty

 

 

[hillieg]

This year was my third visit to Natfly at Temora and it seems each year gets quieter and quieter. Less trade shows and seems to be less planes parked. The forums seemed to be the same as last year with the exception of the Oz Runways forums. One thing I found annoying was people talking outside of the hangers during forums! It was so hard to hear the speaker with people were gas bagging behind you. Also people rocking up to the next forum before the forum had finished and moving chairs on the cement. Next year there needs to be better sound equipment. Also was a bit surprised with distance between the runway at the trade show. All it would take is a stuffed landing going off the runway before collecting a group of people.

 

Also this years event was supposed to be back to basics. I seem to remember that there was more rag and tube aircraft last year!

 

 

[winsor68]

I think the numbers were a pretty good indication of where Ra-Aus is going... Downhill fast.

 

Personally I was disgusted to find that our former operations department is now CASA's Sport Pilot Division... Anyone who doubts that Ra-Aus is now the "New Cheap GA" just had to take a look along the flight line... Many of the awards were taken by VH registered aircraft.

 

WE ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE... MAKE NO MISTAKE!

 

Not because of safety reasons but out of pure human greed... these guys sold us up the garden path and I was disgusted to see these sellout ex Ra-Aus ops people sitting at the head table with our reps being given the golden treatment when plenty of our loyal members couldn't get tickets.

 

On the Saturday before the Aerobatic Display these CASA wxxkers walked along the display line telling everyone to move back... and then went and stood in front of the crown outside their supposed safety line... At least someone had the balls to call out "EVERYONE BACK EXCEPT FOR THE CASA BOYS!!! THEY HAVE MAGIC SAFETY DUST"

 

"If you are going to buy an aircraft get an Ultralight rego machine... Not an LSA... BIG can of worms and more trouble to come" Quote... Un-named Board Member.

 

 

[Admin]

The shop takings were down about 35% on previous years and the worst part about that is it was the only Pilot Supplies shop that was there this year. The weather was fine so it can't be that, threat of ramp checks...I personally think that it is easy to blame the "institution" when there is nothing else definitive to find to blame and besides, you wouldn't want people to come to NatFly if they would fail a ramp check, for their own safety, they shouldn't be flying in the first place, should they.

 

I think it is just all coming down to the state of the economy, the bashing of the psych by all the natural disasters, the employment situation, rising living costs like electricity, petrol etc.

 

For those that want to blame ramp checks, here is a thought...

 

Widely promote that every aircraft that lands at NatFly will have a ramp check to ensure the aircraft is registered, the pilot is currently certified, they have a current ERSA, Charts etc. Being widely promoted before the event helps to ensure that those that do come, arrive as they should. Those that can't check the boxes don't come as they shouldn't, they shouldn't even be flying.

 

When an aircraft arrives at NatFly, the pilot can avail themselves of the free services of a Level 2 workshop where Level 2's are standing by to talk to the pilot about their aircraft by undertaking an "UNOFFICIAL" inspection. The Level 2 may find a bearing that is nearing its end of life or a cable that is showing signs of wear etc etc etc and the Level 2 talks to the pilot about these things, helping him to be aware of some upcoming potential issues that the pilot will need to look into when they arrive back home...OR...the pilot can say to the Level 2, "Can you fix this now for me and I will pay you?" in which case the Level 2 can help out. A whole workshop tent that serves 2 purposes...1, to help pilots become aware of upcoming maintenance and safety issues with their aircraft by a free unofficial inspection and 2, if there is anything that is severely dangerous and the aircraft should not be allowed to fly home, the pilot can make repairs under the helpful supervision of the Level 2 using the free workshop or pay an on-hand level 2 to fix it (Officially) whilst they go and enjoy NatFly (parts issue to be considered) and they can then fly home with a safer aircraft...it should always be about turning negatives into positives or opportunities

 

Just a thought

 

The other thing and as Bubbleboy has mentioned in a previous thread, young potential aviator activities. I think we should get together before NatFly 2013 and organise these as a Recreational Flying initiative along with some evening entertainment by Recreational Flying members.

 

 

[robinsm]

The back to basics theme was a joke. You could count the rag and tube contingent with both hands and one shoe off. Maybe a little more promotion by the parent organisation could have been done. I have attended all 3 at Temora, the local Temora input has been consistently fantastic and I dips me lid to them. I think the problem is that the sport is becoming more expensive with every one wanting to fly mini GA and not Ultralight fun machines. Every stall except Ians seems to cater for the large money end of town and not the basic Mums and Dads working peoples economy flying requirements that Ultralighting was started to fulfil. The full glass cockpit is fine if you can afford the arm and the leg but what about someone selling non TSO'ed instruments,plastic fittings, cloth covering supplies, tapes etc.

 

I agree, a certain amount of wish list stuff is great (and some of the aircraft porn is wonderful to look at), but lets be practical here. You do not need the latest Technam, Jabiru, space rocket, (not that there is anything wrong with these) etc to enjoy this sport and maybe a consistent push to actually recognise and support actively both ends of the sport should be made.

 

We are not a mini GA organisation, we are a Recreational flying organisation with operating maximums.

 

I did enjoy the flyin but left on the Saturday afternoon as I had seen all there was to see 3 times. I agree Windsor68, we are in trouble when a recreational flying organisation can give awards to GA aircraft at the expense of their own registered aircraft (makes a bit of a joke out of it and is the reason I do not attend the Saturday night back slap at the RSL club, after attending the first one.

 

I will be back next year.

 

 

[winsor68]

You hit the nail on the head robinsm...

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Well there seems to be a trend here.......

 

Scotty

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Overall I enjoyed Natfly 2012 a great deal . It was well worth the over 1000 nm trip there and back (2000+ NM). I attended several forums of interest, and found them all enjoyable, enlightening, and informative.

 

There were however moments at the presentation dinner saturday night, when I was sadly dissapointed as a long-term RAA member. The two awards to VH registered aircraft, instead of equally suitable RAA aircraft was a smack in the face. The 'airmanship' award with a $500 prize was awarded to an unknown who simply appeared from the CEOs presentation to be an old personal friend from his PNG days.

 

I have been around Australian aviation since 1968, and I know I've seen more recreational aviation than the current CEO, and I've never heard of the guys' name mentioned once !...

 

I can only wait till the next magazine and hope all is revealed.

 

The award to Neville White for best 95.10 was spot-on. This man is no doubt one of the sports pioneers, and deserves every award or accolade we can give him. This was his third, and may he see many more !..

 

The award for longest trip to Temora was given to a bloke from Tasmania for Christ sake !. Windsor and I for instance had flown three times the distance to Temora from Townsville, and several had endured the long journey from WA. This bloke from Tassy had simply taken off two weeks prior to Temora and done a 3000nm trip ending at Temora at the appropriate time !!...This is not right, and needs to be corrected.

 

It simply needs to be from original point of departure straight line to Temora....period.

 

If one flys around Australia three times, and then arrives at Temora, does he/she deserve this award ....?..Although going the distance for awards was the last thing on my mind when I planned the trip, these inconsistancies reflect on our organization, and those that currently run it......................................................................Maj...

 

 

[Guest ron dunn]

Yes...it's all a little sad. I have attended most of the Narromine events and all three of the Temora fly-ins.

 

The Temora events were by caravan from South Australia and found the camping to be great but agree that attendance and exhibits to be well down - I was wantong to check out a set of lightweight wheels and brakes for my VP1 I have rebuilt but the only thing there was someone promoting items on a pretty brochure from France or some place - and at three thousand dollars or so were half the cost of my aircraft!

 

You are right about the rag and tube not being promoted and to make matters worse fly-in aircraft are hard to see as they are scattered over half of the aerodrome.

 

Narromine was a lot better in this respect as most of the RA-Us aircraft were lined up close to activities.

 

My bit of a gripe but I will still be doing the 2200 km treck every year while I am able.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Camel]

The Fact that a VH reg aircraft can win is BS this is a Joke, This must be retified, it is not a SAAA function nor is it a GA function but they all are welcome but not to take over. The protest must start NOW. Enough is enough. I am insulted by the RAA management and organiser of Natfly to allow this to happen. Pilot of the year and longest journey is another Joke.

 

The RAA CEO Steve Tizzard needs to explain NOW and correct this serious error.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Explain? How much do you want to bet he won't?

 

 

[kgwilson]

I wasn't there and I am an ex GA pilot but the news of these awards really saddens me and the whole process smacks of some sort of crony-ism. I don't know the CEO and have only read a bit about his history but I already don't like him. I am amazed that he hasn't waxed his moustache so he can clamp his head in the canopy of his imaginary spitfire (or maybe he does).

 

 

[Guernsey]

Well Ian I'm not sure if all of our RaaUs Board members read this forum, but when we have all put in our own two cents worth, I believe that all our comments on anything to do with this years Natfly (both positive and negative) should be forwarded in one document to all of the Board Members.

 

What are others thoughts on this idea??

 

Alan.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Well, well, well, three holes in the ground

 

Nothing surprising or unexpected here. mates for mates as usual.

 

 

[Admin]

Well Ian I'm not sure if all of our RaaUs Board members read this forum, but when we have all put in our own two cents worth, I believe that all our comments on anything to do with this years Natfly (both positive and negative) should be forwarded in one document to all of the Board Members.What are others thoughts on this idea??

Alan.

Not a problem guys...will do

 

 

[winsor68]

I have a suggestion...

 

I volunteered a couple of days doing Ground Marshalling... Us volunteers were based out of the Volunteers "hut" and provided with Sandwiches, water, a place to get out of the sun with its own toilet and shower in the building.

 

I think that those presenting the Forums should be included and allowed and encouraged to use these facilities as they are generally putting in a lot of work... Perhaps even keeping the toilet and shower facilities open for their own use in the evening...

 

 

[winsor68]

Another...

 

And this is relevant to the Trike accident... A clear and impossible to miss Siren and Announcement at first light opening flying activities and again at end of day... broadcast over the whole airfield. It may not stop someone physically from taking of into the dark... but at least if the siren has gone anyone witnessing an Ra-Aus machine taxying before or after this alert would be more inclined to pull them up and step in IMO.

 

 

[jetjr]

I wasnt there but thought Id raise a point as it comes up often

 

How does having the expensive kit like new LSA, glass cockpits etc etc PREVENT rag and tubes types turning up and having stands there?

 

Exhibitors turn up if they get enough business out of the event.... clearly this isn't stacking up for them or the economic climate is just that crook. Id have thought organizers tried very hard to get more 95.10 interest but not much success by the sounds of it. This is a sad thing but a reality.

 

Maybe the recreational end of flying isnt large or stable enough. SAAA, RAA and small end GA need to hold combined events to reduce overheads and share workloads and "customers". The idea we now have 2 annual RAA events seems crazy seeing as the main one cant draw enough people or general public to see the displays etc.

 

 

[Chrism]

Well Ian I'm not sure if all of our RaaUs Board members read this forum, but when we have all put in our own two cents worth, I believe that all our comments on anything to do with this years Natfly (both positive and negative) should be forwarded in one document to all of the Board Members.What are others thoughts on this idea??

Alan.

In addition, at the "Meet the Board" thingo, Steve R .(President) was clear that a questionairre/feedback slip would be included in a future magazine and was hoping for many people to respond (ie: more than who vote on board elections!)

 

Chris

 

 

[Ed Herring]

In addition, at the "Meet the Board" thingo, Steve R .(President) was clear that a questionairre/feedback slip would be included in a future magazine and was hoping for many people to respond (ie: more than who vote on board elections!)Chris

Hi Ian

 

Firstly it was great to catch up to you again at NATFLY. As you are aware i have been AWOL for quite a while but my workload is intense and since being the SA Board Member Representative any spare time is dedicated to it. You will well understand that....! As the "last minute" NATFLY 2012 Co-ordinator thrown in at the deep end after most things were organised, i have had an interesting time to say the least.

 

The NATFLY Committee worked very hard and "We" got a lot of things right but also a number of things went astray as you well know....! As i am the NATFLY 2013 Co-ordinator charged with getting it right, I felt compelled to check this forum to gather some of the views. Hang on a minute, please don't all call or email me at once now will you...! I have read this post and agree with some of your comments and some i had strangely enough already thought of.

 

Steve Runciman will be putting a feedback slip in a magazine soon so that is the oportunity to have a say. The problem generally though is the same as at voting time...most members don't bother. So i ask all members to fill out the form and send it in and we will listen.

 

I will welcome suggestions for next year and the best way to do that is to email me at [email protected] or phone me on 0408 787 018

 

I appreciated once again meeting many, a highlight was meeting the 6'10" Maj Millard...Perception is such an interesting thing isn't it....!

 

Best Regards

 

ED

 

 

[coljones]

Ed,

 

thanks for listening and your partial response.

 

Can you fix up some feedback about the meet the board (which I couldn't attend as the sun does set in NSW)

 

regards

 

Col

 

 

[MrH]

I've attended the 3 Temora events - this year was disappointing for me in that the Trade exhibits were missing &

 

the forums weren't as numerous or should I say, topics as interesting as previous years selections.

 

It was very noticeable that the variety of aircraft was missing.

 

I liked the Sonex, RV's & any SAAA aircraft being involved & enjoy their forums as I think they provide lots of real knowledge for all.

 

Sadly there really were no rag & tube aircraft bar a couple. I was looking forward to seeing these aircraft & they never turned up :(

 

Also missing are any true ultralight dealers, save maybe Quicksilver - even the Trike presence was missing.

 

The exhibits that were there were way, way too spread out. It's sad to know paid up exhibitors didn't turn up.. for what reason, who knows.

 

There weren't the number of TIF's happening this year either. Last year the flying schools were there with aircraft & doing multiple circuits, not so much this year.

 

As far as VH rego aircraft being awarded prizes, that is just rubbish - Its an RAA event , GA welcome but not prize worthy .

 

I will definitely go next year because I love the event, no matter what but lets hope the RAA movement picks up & the Board listens to the members when they

 

send out their NATFLY question-air that they promised, in the next magazine.

 

H