Accident Mildura

[Camel]

http://m.smh.com.au/victoria/plane-flips-as-it-crash-lands-20120414-1wzrx.html

 

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/

 

Just saw on TV, ABC 24 news

 

 

[BPN]

I know the instructor, both ok

 

 

[alf jessup]

Some good news for a change.

 

Alf

 

 

[kaz3g]

Yes, Alf

 

Thank goodness this one worked out ok. No doubt about those little Jabs... They seem to have a high survivability don't they?

 

Kaz

 

 

[BPN]

Yes, AlfThank goodness this one worked out ok. No doubt about those little Jabs... They seem to have a high survivability don't they?

 

Kaz

Shame they don't seem to be able to fix the problems of a gr8 product

 

 

[rick-p]

Shame they don't seem to be able to fix the problems of a gr8 product

I wouldn't think any more problems than any other man made thing that has for the most part air between it's wheels and mother Earth!

 

Rick-p

 

 

[bushpilot]

I wouldn't think any more problems than any other man made thing that has for the most part air between it's wheels and mother Earth!Rick-p

I agree.. And the sheer number of them in service meens that some of the incidents have to fall their way..

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes, but does the nose-leg have to fail everytime they need to do an outlanding, as is often the case, and often with an experienced instructor flying ?......But yes always nice when all get out ok...........Maj...

 

 

[alf jessup]

Yes, but does the nose-leg have to fail everytime they need to do an outlanding, as is often the case, and often with an experienced instructor flying ?......But yes always nice when all get out ok...........Maj...

Hey Maj,

 

Looking at where it put down i think the nose wheel would have broken off on any aircraft.

 

Alf

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Well reviewing the photos again you may be correct, and he may also have tangled with a nastly looking fence. However there have been more than a few incidents where nose legs have failed on landing, also putting the aircraft on it's back. One a few months back at Ayr on a smooth grass strip..It is certainly not a rare occurance on Jabs............................................Maj...

 

 

[frank marriott]

Ross

 

The one at Ayr you mentioned was not a nose wheel failure but the manner of landing - would have bent the firewall on a rugged C182. I don't know of any aircraft [nose wheel type obviously] that will cop a heavy nose first landing.

 

I don't know about others so I cannot comment about them.

 

FrankM

 

 

[planesmaker]

My question is 'What caused it to need to put down in a paddock? engine failure perhaps? More info please?

 

 

[Geoff]

It appears to have a sticky intake valve and that's only hear say

 

 

[planesmaker]

I fail to see how a sticky intake valve would prevent the engine producing enough power for at least level flight. Tom

 

 

[kaz3g]

I agree.. And the sheer number of them in service meens that some of the incidents have to fall their way..

Hi bushie

 

I read the other day where there are now more Jabirus in South Africa than C172's. They are making the airframe there under licence and fitting Australian built engines to them.

 

Kaz

 

 

[motzartmerv]

What ever happend, what ever type... The fact is, something happend and the instructor got it down and both are ok.. Some good news. Nose wheels are replaceable..:)

 

 

[bushpilot]

Hi bushieI read the other day where there are now more Jabirus in South Africa than C172's. They are making the airframe there under licence and fitting Australian built engines to them.

 

Kaz

And they are now offering a fuel injection option.. More power / less fuel / no carby heat needed.

 

 

[bushpilot]

Well reviewing the photos again you may be correct, and he may also have tangled with a nastly looking fence. However there have been more than a few incidents where nose legs have failed on landing, also putting the aircraft on it's back. One a few months back at Ayr on a smooth grass strip..It is certainly not a rare occurance on Jabs............................................Maj...

I did over 200 paddock landings in my first Jab (J160) and never had an issue with the u/c. It is now owned by another person and has done about 1200 hours, with only routine maintenance on the airframe and engine (top end at 1,000 hours).

 

 

[Sunrayisa Flyer]

Well hi there everyone, I am the instructor that put the Jabby into the forementioned paddock and broke the nose leg, and walked away with my student without a scratch on either of us. Let me tell you all that if you are yet to experience a total engine failure and you are flying a six cylinder jabby, GET READY, because it's not a matter of if, but when. Jabiru need a good kick in the you know where, these six cylinder engines are a death trap for the inexperienced pilot. A total engine failure at 600 feet AGL leaves very little options and only calm minds and well practised emergency procedures will get you out of trouble. By the way, it was the circlip on number 3 cylinder coming loose and allowing the gudgeon pin to strike the cylinder wall and break the piston that caused the failure. Good luck Jabiru you are going to need it going forward!!!!!!

 

 

[brilin_air]

It was good to hear that you both got out unhurt from that accident, how many hours were on the aircraft and engine before this failure happened SF, it is not a common problem for the jab motors to have a loose circlip on the gudgeon pin,

 

Brian

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well hi there everyone, I am the instructor that put the Jabby into the forementioned paddock and broke the nose leg, and walked away with my student without a scratch on either of us. Let me tell you all that if you are yet to experience a total engine failure and you are flying a six cylinder jabby, GET READY, because it's not a matter of if, but when. Jabiru need a good kick in the you know where, these six cylinder engines are a death trap for the inexperienced pilot. A total engine failure at 600 feet AGL leaves very little options and only calm minds and well practised emergency procedures will get you out of trouble. By the way, it was the circlip on number 3 cylinder coming loose and allowing the gudgeon pin to strike the cylinder wall and break the piston that caused the failure. Good luck Jabiru you are going to need it going forward!!!!!!

In this particular case that failure was probably caused by an assembly mistake during work on the engine, ie re-using an extracted circlip, or not checking it was fully seated.

 

Happened to me at 170 km/hr on a Vincent motor bike, and there weren't too many options there either.

 

I'd suggest that this failure was not the fault of the manufacturer.

 

 

[REastwood]

The problem is that if your aircraft is picked up on behalf of the insurance company after an accident due to total engine failure (as it was in our case) and shipped back to Bundaberg for repair you will never find out what actually caused the engine to fail. We asked the person who initially inspected the engine and he said that the No. 4 big end or gudgeon pin let go, then when it got to Jabiru, it was at first "you must speak to xxx", then xxx would say "you must speak to yyy", then it was several days of incrimination "you ran it too hot", "you used the wrong fuel". After showing evidence and sworn statements that it had in fact ran within the parameters specified in the POH and asking for the engine to be returned for independent analysis we were offered a new engine minus rebated hours. We never did find out what caused the failure.

 

 

[facthunter]

I wouldn't go rushing into a court case with this Circlip , unless it was a factory situation.

 

This is not really a design fault as circlips are a common thing although many car engines rely on a press fit of the unbushed conrod to do the job.

 

If you don't instal them carefully, ( distorted or not seated in the groove) they willl come out or work in the groove and take the side out of the piston gradually. Jabiru have changed the circlip from a round section to a square one. Obviously you should check for the right one fitting your piston. This is a likely source of trouble at some stage, for the unwary or uninformed.

 

I can understand people getting upset at having an engine failure, but this has nothing to do with stud breakages. You should go back into the service history and mod status amongst other thing like operational technique/environment. Fuel etc. Nev

 

 

[bushpilot]

You are on the money facthunter.. In fact I had earlier made enquiry about this incident.. as I have done the factory engine course (for L2) and was naturally interested.

 

It seems that this motor had a top-end done 19 hours before the failure - not by the factory. Some of the circlips were apparently distorted in the process of inserting them; this can occur if they are over squeezed on fitting. Jabiru are going to put out a maintainers advisory covering this.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I find it hard to believe that engines can't be worked on by an ordinary mechanic, we are talking about an engine using '50s technology. Where is the complexity?