Accident Mildura

[turboplanner]

I find it hard to believe that engines can't be worked on by an ordinary mechanic, we are talking about an engine using '50s technology. Where is the complexity?

A 21st century circlip and groove is a 21st century design, worked on by a 21st century living mechanic.

 

Facthunter gave you one example -

 

There really are mechanics who put square circlips in round grooves then blame the engine

 

There really are mechanics who dig the old circlips out with a screwdriver and use them again

 

There really are people who leave residue in piston grooves then sit the new circlip on top of it ready to leap out

 

There really are people who manage to stretch a circlip putting it in

 

There really are people who don't wait to observe the sharp "click" of a properly seated circlip

 

There really are people who don't insert the circlip then visually inspect to make sure it is seated correctly

 

What you should be finding hard to believe is that there are people around who do this on AIRCRAFT engines.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I am sure their are plenty of RAA L2 mechanics cutting corners everyday, that's the beauty of self regulation.

 

Don't you get the circlip with the piston kit? Circlip pliers aren't that complicated to use.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I am sure their are plenty of RAA L2 mechanics cutting corners everyday, that's the beauty of self regulation.

Well if there are FT, that's Culpable Negligence if someone is injured or killed and that's serious prison time, around 6 1/2 years for a death.

 

 

[Bandit12]

I am sure their are plenty of RAA L2 mechanics cutting corners everyday, that's the beauty of self regulation.

Another pointless and vague accusation for which you will absolutely not provide any evidence no matter how many people ask you to justify yourself. Sometimes you offer very well thought out advice and information to people; other times your motivation seems to be towards inciting arguments.

 

As an aside, I once lost nearly all the oil in a GA registered aircraft due to an oil seal that had not been installed correctly. The very experienced (and naturally qualified) LAME was terribly upset about making the mistake, although no harm was done in the end. We hope that most of the people turning spanners on our aircraft aren't making simple but terrible mistakes, but sometimes it will happen.

 

 

[aj_richo]

http://www.jabiru.net.au/jaba-chat-a-news

 

Circlip installation notes link just put up!

 

spooky

 

 

[Sunrayisa Flyer]

It's interesting to see so many ill informed idiots on this site, you all need to get the facts before making stupid comments.

 

 

[Guernsey]

It's interesting to see so many ill informed idiots on this site, you all need to get the facts before making stupid comments.

I think that people should get the facts before making any comments, stupid or otherwise.

 

Alan.

 

 

[facthunter]

Isn't "you ALL need to get the facts" a bit much, and as pointed out, you don't need any facts to make "stupid" comments. If we were to ban such comments a lot of that would be in the eye of the beholder. It IS important to get the facts. It beats anything else. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

So what are the facts SF?

 

 

[alf jessup]

It's interesting to see so many ill informed idiots on this site, you all need to get the facts before making stupid comments.

I think your being a bit harsh there SF calling a bunch of people idiots.

 

 

[jetjr]

Call me an idiot BUT if its true there was maint done 19hrs prior, an unintentional mistake is pretty likely.

 

Isnt the first 50hrs to 100hrs after major work a "red zone" for engine failures?

 

Older Jabirus had fibreglass mount to front leg and the leg was much smaller, more problems then

 

A big point here is an aircraft had a forced landing and no one was hurt, well done.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I wouldn't be worrying much about the flip over the nose wheel. The land around Mildura is very rough.

 

 

[damkia]

Call me an idiot BUT if its true there was maint done 19hrs prior, an unintentional mistake is pretty likely.Isnt the first 50hrs to 100hrs after major work a "red zone" for engine failures?

Older Jabirus had fibreglass mount to front leg and the leg was much smaller, more problems then

 

A big point here is an aircraft had a forced landing and no one was hurt, well done.

Known as the bathtub failure curve

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I am sure their are plenty of RAA L2 mechanics cutting corners everyday, that's the beauty of self regulation.

FT. Get a PPL, VH rego your tornado, and you wont have to be involved in this shonky, dodgy, self regulated RAA. Sleep well at night knowing your GA LAME has done everything perfectly and your two stroke will; never fail.

 

Sounds like the instructor did a good job.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You saying the RAA doesn't need to lift its standard as far as safety goes? Safety is based on individual assessment of risk, I am trying to maintain a high standard. Just shoot me.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Oh is that what your comments meant. I took it on face value and added it to your usual pile of one liners. Keep up the high standards mate. ;)

 

 

[Ultralights]

Obviously no one readers the CASA safety magazine then, there are pages of failures and mistakes made, even the new A380 gets a few mentions. And plenty of 747's as well. Considering the hours RAAus aircraft fly, I feel they are doing a great job of keeping the fleet in the air.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

FT a hint...Merv is in the industry on a daily basis. Ultralights fixes (I think) Naval helicopter now on a daily basis, and Hawk/F18 before that. I spent years looking after F111 Avionics and as a group we probably have enough of a clue and a realistic enough outlook to:-

 

1) Understand that everything RAA related isnt perfect (but must not be too far away from acceptable given the recent CASA audit)

 

2) Understand that 1 liners never solved anything, never have, Never will

 

3) Understand that what we have now, while remembering 1), is still fundamentally sound, when compared to what we as participants are asked to pay

 

4) Have seen the professional/Government end of aviation enough to know that the improvements that I pressume you want, wont come for a $0 cost.

 

5) Understand and have been around enough to realise that the extra$ that could be asked of us is a never ending conveyer belt of demand, we will run out of $ and be driven from recreational aviation long before they (you) run out of $ driven improvments.

 

6) Understand that aviation is not a risk free environment, you pays ya money and ya takes ya chances. You do all that you can and all that you learned to improve your chances but you accept the risk will NEVER be mitigated to zero.

 

Now if its truely the case that you are just trying to improve safety, then I ask you again as I have previously, throw away the one liners, put a problem AND a solution forward and you'll find everyone here will be more than happy to discuss your solution and offer alternates.

 

For the last time, I promise, I'll never post this again, clearly doing so will have no more likelihood of getting through than the previous times..... 1 or 2 Line snide comments that are only negative and which offer no possible solution alternative to the problem just make you look like an idiot. You clearly arent, after all your an aviator, and all avaiators in our unbiased way know that we arent mentally challenged, so stop pretending!!!

 

Andy

 

 

[Ultralights]

don't tell anyone, but i have upgraded to full time blackhawk fixer! shhhhh. don't tell the pussers!

 

 

[turboplanner]

I don't think you're correct Andy, although maybe he could prove me wrong by making some sensible posts.

 

 

[i_like_planes]

Yes, but does the nose-leg have to fail everytime they need to do an outlanding, as is often the case, and often with an experienced instructor flying ?......But yes always nice when all get out ok...........Maj...

They don't always.. This one scorched a 400mm trench in the dirt for 20m and still hung on...

 

 

 

[Bandit12]

Given the number of fatalities in jab accidents that Turbs put up, I'd be happy to consider the nose leg a crumple zone in an out landing if it meant walking away. I'm not so sure about accepting the incidence of engine outs though...

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I see theres another one in this months mag...Cylinder cracked..

 

 

[Bandit12]

Gut feeling Andy? Fundamentally flawed, or intrinsically sound with a couple of problems that really have never been sorted?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Gut feeling Andy? Fundamentally flawed, or intrinsically sound with a couple of problems that really have never been sorted?

Hey if it was avionics related I feel I'd be qualified to answer but it isnt so I cant :<)

 

but these things interest me:-

 

1) Are the parts variable in quality, where the design point is so close to the failure point that we see excursions in quality causing failure where otherwise if not for quality variance, or if not for a larger safety margin there would be no issues. Is the variability a function of poor quality supply, or just inherent in that part.

 

2) Is the assumption that it's 50's technology (in fact earlier than that) and therefore any old idiot can work on them wrong? Having said that Pilot training facilities and those flying 24 registered Jabs should be using Level 2 maintainers. If it was a result of "Bull in a china shop" then wouldnt the failure rates show that 19 reg aircraft (or other registrations where the owner can do the work) show a larger failure rate.

 

3) Why dont the older solid lifter engines fail as much as the newer (Is that claim thats often made even true, are there stats to back it?)

 

4) We hear time and time again that induction systems are substandard and require "fiddling" to get right (ish) If thats teh case why arent more people monitoring EGT and CHT in an attempt to get it right. Im guilty of that, I have a 3300 (solid lifters) but only have the std 2 cyl monitoring and I frankly dont trust it. I inted to do the proper thing but just havent yet done so. If Fiddling is required can level 2's do it (ie experienced enough) and can owners afford the likely significant time it will take......More importantly can they afford not to......fingers crossed behind the back, allthe while remebering my boss who was a f111 driver who says time and time again "Hope is not a valid strategy".

 

5) Are the LSA rules so stiffling that the logical replacement of the through studs with alternates that are shown to have a much larger safety tolerance and which might therefore save your Ass, in the abscence of a real answer to 1) above, cannot be fitted to anything but 19 registered aircraft.

 

6) Do we live in such a litigous environment that J, even if it knows the answers to much of the points above will never release them in such a way that the answers can then be used against them as people sue for damages, and in any event its likely that the decision on what and when to release will likely never be made by J but J's product liability insurer.....

 

Andy